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HighSchoolGuy
11-10-2008, 06:57 PM
I eat 2 grilled cheese sandwhiches a day, (90g cheese - 360cals) (4 breads - 340cals)
Whatever is for dinner(still live at home)(usually chicken,bread,potatoes,veggies)
and a protein shake(1500cals)
So I get about 3000-3200cals a day. I was 144lbs, 3 weeks ago, now I`m 150lbs.
My question is, can I consume 3000-3200 in 3 meals, or should I space it out into 5-6 meals? I read on the forum that it doesn`t matter as long as I get my calories in. Also, what are the harms of skipping breakfast?

starfox
11-10-2008, 08:38 PM
I would say 5-6 meals so your metabolism doesn't slow down... and breakfast again is a metabolism issue, you can get a lot of cals by eating breakfast and keep your metabolism up too by having spread your meals out.

Tom Mutaffis
11-11-2008, 06:42 AM
I eat 2 grilled cheese sandwhiches a day, (90g cheese - 360cals) (4 breads - 340cals)
Whatever is for dinner(still live at home)(usually chicken,bread,potatoes,veggies)
and a protein shake(1500cals)
So I get about 3000-3200cals a day. I was 144lbs, 3 weeks ago, now I`m 150lbs.
My question is, can I consume 3000-3200 in 3 meals, or should I space it out into 5-6 meals? I read on the forum that it doesn`t matter as long as I get my calories in. Also, what are the harms of skipping breakfast?

You definitely want to split up your meals into 5-6 different sittings if you are eating over 3,000 calories.

It does matter what you are eating and calories are not everything for every trainee. What are your goals? Do you just need to be heavier for a sport like football? Do you want to get into powerlifting? Are you going more for that "jacked bodybuilder" look? In any case gaining lean mass is ideal, if you have a specific timeline then in some cases letting yourself gain some fat can ensure that you are gaining as much lean mass as possible - but make sure that all of your decisions are carefully calculated. The last thing that you want to do is spend time and money "bulking" just to gain 10 lbs of fat that you end up spending a lot of time, money, and effort to lose again a couple of months later.

Breakfast is very important, even if you eat one of your cheese sandwiches you need to make sure that you are eating something... although I would suggest Oatmeal, Protein Shake, Fruit, etc.

anonymous1
11-11-2008, 06:46 AM
The metabolism slowing down deal is BS. Eat the calories in a way that is easiest for you. The larger meals will affect some people's energy levels and digestion, but others are fine. I don't see any pre/post workout stuff in there, but most of your calories should be taken in during and in the 3 hours after your workout, and the rest just divide up how you like and adjust.

Tom Mutaffis
11-11-2008, 06:58 AM
The metabolism slowing down deal is BS. Eat the calories in a way that is easiest for you. The larger meals will affect some people's energy levels and digestion, but others are fine. I don't see any pre/post workout stuff in there, but most of your calories should be taken in during and in the 3 hours after your workout, and the rest just divide up how you like and adjust.

Good idea, today I'll combine my 3 morning meals into one and take in about 1,400 calories including 51 grams of fat, 89 grams carbs, 145 grams protein in one meal... I am sure that my body will utilize that entire amount of protein, I won't be tired, and will feel great afterward :drooling:. Most likely I'd have to take a handful of pepto bismol and end up napping under my desk for 3 hours.

Constant, steady, nutritious eating is the way to go. Keep the calories coming in as fuel throughout the day and allow your body to utilize everything - this way you do not have huge insulin spikes making your tired or causing you to store a ton of fat.

Anyonomous does bring up a good point about post-workout nutrition being optimal timing for a large meal. If you are looking to gain weight you might want to drink a balanced mass gain shake like Maximus by AtLarge Nutrition. Or you can always take a protein supplement like Nitrean and mix it with milk, bananas, peanut butter, fruit juice, etc.

RhodeHouse
11-11-2008, 01:06 PM
The metabolism slowing down deal is BS. Eat the calories in a way that is easiest for you. The larger meals will affect some people's energy levels and digestion, but others are fine. I don't see any pre/post workout stuff in there, but most of your calories should be taken in during and in the 3 hours after your workout, and the rest just divide up how you like and adjust.

It's not BS at all. Donnie Thompson eats 4 huge meals a day instead of 7-8 when he needs to gain weight. You can absolutely control your metabolism with multiple small meals. That's day one nutrition stuff.

Holto
11-11-2008, 02:48 PM
It's not BS at all. Donnie Thompson eats 4 huge meals a day instead of 7-8 when he needs to gain weight. You can absolutely control your metabolism with multiple small meals. That's day one nutrition stuff.

Why do you suppose this has been disproven by every single study ever conducted on the issue?

See here's the thing, you cant tell me how many cals Mr.Thompson was eating in either scenarios because he doesn't know. So all you have is speculation. Simple knowledge of how the body actually works tells me that when he decides to gain weight, he eats more.

If eating frequently accelerated our metabolic rates it would impair our ability to survive as a species. Every human adaptation has been driven by survival.

Tom:

Please note I totally agree with splitting the cals & nutrients up (for various reasons), I'm just pointing out the idea of multiple meals accelerating metabolism is a myth, and an old & common one at that.

TopCat
11-11-2008, 10:52 PM
The metabolism slowing down deal is BS. Eat the calories in a way that is easiest for you. The larger meals will affect some people's energy levels and digestion, but others are fine. I don't see any pre/post workout stuff in there, but most of your calories should be taken in during and in the 3 hours after your workout, and the rest just divide up how you like and adjust.

Da trufh

anonymous1
11-12-2008, 08:11 AM
Thanks for the support, I'm not big on internet debates anymore. Holto said what I would have said, btw good to see you here...I enjoy your posts when I'm doing searches.

Tom Mutaffis
11-12-2008, 12:47 PM
Tom:

Please note I totally agree with splitting the cals & nutrients up (for various reasons), I'm just pointing out the idea of multiple meals accelerating metabolism is a myth, and an old & common one at that.

Definitely.

Highschoolguy - looks like the concensus is that you would be best off splitting up your meals. Not necessarily because of metabolism, but for overall health, energy, and nutrient utilization.

evnp85
11-12-2008, 02:10 PM
I tend to eat 1 huge meal (230,000 calories) in 3 month intervals. In between these meals I consume nothing.

RhodeHouse
11-12-2008, 05:23 PM
Why do you suppose this has been disproven by every single study ever conducted on the issue?

See here's the thing, you cant tell me how many cals Mr.Thompson was eating in either scenarios because he doesn't know. So all you have is speculation. Simple knowledge of how the body actually works tells me that when he decides to gain weight, he eats more.

If eating frequently accelerated our metabolic rates it would impair our ability to survive as a species. Every human adaptation has been driven by survival.

Tom:

Please note I totally agree with splitting the cals & nutrients up (for various reasons), I'm just pointing out the idea of multiple meals accelerating metabolism is a myth, and an old & common one at that.

Dude, I've done the same thing Donnie did, and it worked. Don't spout off like you always do about your f#$%ing studies. It works. I've done it. DOnnie's done it. Vincent Dizenzo swears by it. Your studies can't disprove what I did. Get a hard on for someone else.

RhodeHouse
11-12-2008, 05:24 PM
I tend to eat 1 huge meal (230,000 calories) in 3 month intervals. In between these meals I consume nothing.

That's funny.

AJL11
11-12-2008, 06:37 PM
Why do you suppose this has been disproven by every single study ever conducted on the issue?

See here's the thing, you cant tell me how many cals Mr.Thompson was eating in either scenarios because he doesn't know. So all you have is speculation. Simple knowledge of how the body actually works tells me that when he decides to gain weight, he eats more.

If eating frequently accelerated our metabolic rates it would impair our ability to survive as a species. Every human adaptation has been driven by survival.

Tom:

Please note I totally agree with splitting the cals & nutrients up (for various reasons), I'm just pointing out the idea of multiple meals accelerating metabolism is a myth, and an old & common one at that.


Silly Canadians........ :tuttut:

faster
11-12-2008, 08:12 PM
From everything that I have read on here, Holto is technically correct. But I think Tom's last post best sums up the answer for the OP.

RhodeHouse
11-12-2008, 09:16 PM
From everything that I have read on here, Holto is technically correct. But I think Tom's last post best sums up the answer for the OP.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

BFGUITAR
11-12-2008, 09:48 PM
I tend to eat 1 huge meal (230,000 calories) in 3 month intervals. In between these meals I consume nothing.

When you go to an extreme everything breaks down and there is no point in talking about it. Do you think eating 0.05 calories every second for a day would be any more beneficial than eating four 1000 calorie meals a day?

If you joking, good one :hello:

BulldogGST2
11-12-2008, 09:53 PM
i believe holto is right. if someone is claiming they've done the opposite, id like to know how they went about measuring their metabolic rate, so they can prove to us that it increased...all the scientific evidence shows its a myth.

BFGUITAR
11-12-2008, 09:55 PM
I eat 2 grilled cheese sandwhiches a day, (90g cheese - 360cals) (4 breads - 340cals)
Whatever is for dinner(still live at home)(usually chicken,bread,potatoes,veggies)
and a protein shake(1500cals)
So I get about 3000-3200cals a day. I was 144lbs, 3 weeks ago, now I`m 150lbs.
My question is, can I consume 3000-3200 in 3 meals, or should I space it out into 5-6 meals? I read on the forum that it doesn`t matter as long as I get my calories in. Also, what are the harms of skipping breakfast?

Do what is comfortable. If you eat 1000 calories (made from fat, protein and carbs) in the morning at 9 lets say and nothing until 12, than even at 12 you will still be digesting/absorbing the nutrients you just ate in the morning.

Animal meat and dairy can often take up to 5 hours to fully digest and absorb. Complex carbs up to two hours. Mixing fat protein and carbs will greatly lengthen the time it takes to digest all of the food. So eating every hour would really be pointless because your body is already feeding yourself slowly over long periods of time.

Holto
11-13-2008, 09:55 AM
Dude, I've done the same thing Donnie did, and it worked. Don't spout off like you always do about your f#$%ing studies. It works. I've done it. DOnnie's done it. Vincent Dizenzo swears by it. Your studies can't disprove what I did. Get a hard on for someone else.

You don't know what you did. If you do, please tell me.

Tell me how many calories Donnie Thompson was consuming when he was doing 7-8 meals, and then tell me how many calories he was consuming when he was doing 4 meals.

If you can't answer that, you can't tell me anything.



Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Yeah, go read the actual clinical data so you'll actually know what you're talking about.




i believe holto is right. if someone is claiming they've done the opposite, id like to know how they went about measuring their metabolic rate, so they can prove to us that it increased...all the scientific evidence shows its a myth.

These dudes aren't even counting calories. They are going on guesses completely.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 10:36 AM
You don't know what you did. If you do, please tell me.

Tell me how many calories Donnie Thompson was consuming when he was doing 7-8 meals, and then tell me how many calories he was consuming when he was doing 4 meals.

No matter what I tell you, you'll come up with your own BS reason why I'm wrong. In actuality, I'm right. I've done it myself. When I ate 4 meals instead of 6-7, I drank 2 of my shakes with meals instead of by themselves. So, no need to count caloried when all you're doing is combining meals. It's really that simple. Guess what? i got bigger. So, tell me I'm wrong.

And, when I was eating 6-7 meals and gaining weight, I dropped bodyfat. So, tell me I'm wrong again.

If you can't answer that, you can't tell me anything.




Yeah, go read the actual clinical data so you'll actually know what you're talking about.

Clinical data is only good for wiping my fat ass. Real world experience trumps all. It's EXACTLY the same as the jackasses that say you can't train over 90% for more than 3-4 weeks, or your CNS will suffer and you'll get weaker and/or overtrained.

What you nerdy, bookworm types need to do is study the elite level athletes. Write down exactly what they did to get big or strong or ripped up. That's what should be done. There are books everywhere that say how I train is wrong. It seems to be working, so am I wrong or are the books wrong? I know what you'll say. But, anyone with a thread of intelligence in their mind should be able to figure this out. If they can't, extermination is the answer. The gene pool is poluted enough.

These dudes aren't even counting calories. They are going on guesses completely. And these "guesses" are yielding results without the wasted time of opening a book that doesn't have any useful information in it anyways.

Still waiting for your incredible pictures so we can all see who's the man behind the outrageous claims.

Invain
11-13-2008, 10:48 AM
Elite level athletes are elite level for a reason. Do you honestly believe you don't have above average genetics Rhodes? What may work for you most likely won't for any average joe. I'm gonna be real honest man, you may have plenty of "real world" experience but most of the time your advice definitely does not take into effect people's experience levels.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 11:07 AM
Elite level athletes are elite level for a reason. Do you honestly believe you don't have above average genetics Rhodes? What may work for you most likely won't for any average joe. I'm gonna be real honest man, you may have plenty of "real world" experience but most of the time your advice definitely does not take into effect people's experience levels.

No, I don't believe I have above average genetics. I have a genetic disease - Marfans Sydrome. I'm not supposed to be doing any of what I've done. No football, lacrosse, weightlifting - none of it. My parents had to sign a million and one waivers for me to even play a sport. And, I'm 6'4". How is that genetically gifted for a powerlifter? My dad has high cholesterol (medicated) and my mom has high BP (medicated). My sister battled cancer. My grandmother has diabetes. My other grandmother died of a heart attack from high cholesterol, and my uncle died of cancer.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, "NO. I'm not genetically gifted." I have a pair of balls, some work ethic, and a few goals to reach. Doesn't really get any more complicated than that.

Genetics is the weak man's excuse for sucking at life.

Invain
11-13-2008, 11:14 AM
I don't doubt you trian your ass off but if you don't believe you're at least above average than I truly feel sorry for you. Some men will train their whole lives and never come close to your lifts.

evnp85
11-13-2008, 11:15 AM
Genetics is the weak man's excuse for sucking at life.

Don't really agree with that statement. Genetics aren't an excuse.

Invain
11-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Genetics is the weak man's excuse for sucking at life.

I'd love to see you call somebody with an overactive thyroid a pussy because they have trouble gaining weight.

KarstenDD
11-13-2008, 11:28 AM
I don't doubt you trian your ass off but if you don't believe you're at least above average than I truly feel sorry for you. Some men will train their whole lives and never come close to your lifts.


No, I don't believe I have above average genetics. I have a genetic disease - Marfans Sydrome. I'm not supposed to be doing any of what I've done. No football, lacrosse, weightlifting - none of it. My parents had to sign a million and one waivers for me to even play a sport. And, I'm 6'4". How is that genetically gifted for a powerlifter? My dad has high cholesterol (medicated) and my mom has high BP (medicated). My sister battled cancer. My grandmother has diabetes. My other grandmother died of a heart attack from high cholesterol, and my uncle died of cancer. ...

Did you not read any of this part of the post? Rhodes has terrible genetics. Its a fact. You really can't argue that someone with Marfan's Syndrome has above average genetics. Rhodes got where he is by training his ass off.

Invain
11-13-2008, 11:32 AM
So you're basing his entire genetic make-up on the fact that he has marfan's syndrome? I didn't say marfan's syndrome was a positive trait, but there's also thousdands of other genes that make him who he is. If anything I think the fact that he does have marfan's syndrome and has achieved what he has shows just how above average he really is.

Tom Mutaffis
11-13-2008, 11:34 AM
Why all the debating?

Some young man in high school wanted to know if he should eat all of his grilled cheese sandwiches at once or if he should space them out - we all agreed on the answer for him.

Genetics are genetics, some people are more gifted than others. I was already the size of some guys who workout before even ever lifting and had decent strength levels to start with. With that being said there are still guys who started out below where I did and are stronger than I am. Maybe the guys without the best genetics have some of the best work ethic, discipline, and intelligent training principals? The truley elite are the ones who combine everything, but I think that most people's goals on this board is to look great with their shirt off, be one of the strongest guys in their gym/school/state, and to draw the attention of others due to their massive size or power. All of which are achievable for anyone.

Work hard, space out your grilled cheese, and get to it!

AJL11
11-13-2008, 11:36 AM
I'd love to see you call somebody with an overactive thyroid a pussy because they have trouble gaining weight.

Everyone that has an overactive thyroid is a pussy because they have trouble gaining weight...........

Eat More!!!! :)

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 11:41 AM
I don't doubt you trian your ass off but if you don't believe you're at least above average than I truly feel sorry for you. Some men will train their whole lives and never come close to your lifts.

No need to feel sorry for me. This approach has gotten me where I am. The only thing that bothers me is that I don't congratulate m yself enoguh on my accomnplishments. I always think I should be better. I am in no way comparing myself to Barry Sanders, but he once said that his dad said he was never as good as Gale Sayers. So, everytime he scored a TD, he would wonder if his dad still thought Sayers was better. For me, expecting more keeps m coming back for more. When I'm satisfied, I'll probably be done with lifting.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 11:43 AM
Don't really agree with that statement. Genetics aren't an excuse.

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Now, you have an excuse to fail.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 11:44 AM
I'd love to see you call somebody with an overactive thyroid a pussy because they have trouble gaining weight.

With all the stuff I say on here and that gets deleted, you really think this is past me? To quoye Red, from Platoon, "Taylor, excuses are like a**holes. Everybody's got one."

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 11:46 AM
So you're basing his entire genetic make-up on the fact that he has marfan's syndrome? I didn't say marfan's syndrome was a positive trait, but there's also thousdands of other genes that make him who he is. If anything I think the fact that he does have marfan's syndrome and has achieved what he has shows just how above average he really is.

That's the mind. That's what most people don't seem to understand. More quotres. It's a quote day for me.

"He who thinks he can, and he who thinks he can't. They are both right." Wish I could remeber who said this.

evnp85
11-13-2008, 12:23 PM
That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Now, you have an excuse to fail.

Not using it as an excuse as genetics put me ahead of other people my age when I was younger without ever touching weights. You are basically claiming that genetics have nothing to do with performance. This is far from the truth.

With your logic I guess we can just throw the entire theory of evolution out the window as it relies almost entirely on genetics.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 12:41 PM
Not using it as an excuse as genetics put me ahead of other people my age when I was younger without ever touching weights. You are basically claiming that genetics have nothing to do with performance. This is far from the truth.

With your logic I guess we can just throw the entire theory of evolution out the window as it relies almost entirely on genetics.

Now you're splitting hairs. Genetics plays such a small role in what we do. It's so small, that until we do EVERYTHING in our power to achieve our goals, we need not lean on it as an excuse for why we've failed. Too many people cry about genetics before they've done any real work towards something. When you've exhausted ALL options, hen you can cry about it. Until then, I, personally, don't wanna hear about genetics.

BFGUITAR
11-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Genetics is an excuse... not once have I personally met someone with a real problem that affected weightloss/gain. They all say their metabolism is too fast/slow and thus they can do what they want. Unless they have a condition what they say is pure bull****.

As well, there are so few people with major genetic gifts and genetic problems to make any claims in weightlifting. Really you have to treat everyone as the same unless there is a reason to do otherwise.

Furthermore... 50-60 years ago the strongest person in the world was viewed as a freak... a genetic marvel. Today many of the things he did could be reproduced by a large number of people. Does that make those people freaks? Hell no... it shows that training style is the deciding factor for EVERYTHING.

BFGUITAR
11-13-2008, 06:17 PM
I don't doubt you trian your ass off but if you don't believe you're at least above average than I truly feel sorry for you. Some men will train their whole lives and never come close to your lifts.

That isn't true AT ALL. If I dedicated as much effort and time to weightlifting as rhodes does I think I could be up there as well. The thing is, the genetics aren't the rare factor... finding someone with the dedication is. You could call me arrogant, and that would be fine. I choose not to do pursue such a life as I have other endeavors. But I know for a fact that effort=results.

Things I love to do include play guitar, lift weights, and learn science. People have asked me how the hell I can hold my own in all three. My guitar teacher called me gifted, my dad said he knows he will never be able to do what I can do on guitar.

What do I think? I can just see everyone sitting on their asses all day wasting time while I went out and did things. I just practiced, lifted, studied, ate, sleep and repeated over and over. I saw my flaws and made an effort to fix them. If I couldn't get a passage on guitar, I would sit there for hours until I got it right. I would go to bed with the sound of a scale going up and down in my mind. If I couldn't figure out a math problem, I would make some coffee and figure it out until I physically couldn't. If I'm not gaining weight, I would eat a steak with cheese and probably a hamburger.

Moral of the story? Genetics mean nothing unless you have the will and determination to do something. One may appear to be gifted, but rather they are just motivated. This gives a false sense of giftedness. Dedication is more rare than genetics.

Want to really know what gifted is? Mozart.

Invain
11-13-2008, 08:07 PM
Do you really think somebody like Ryan Kenelly benching 1075 had nothing to do with genetics? Do you really think Ronnie Coleman's dominance in the Mr. O has nothing to do with genetics? Yes they worked their asses off, but that's not the only reason they're the best of the best. I really do think genetics plays a larger role than you give credit for. Sure between poeple like you and me it doesn't really matter at all, but when you're talking top teir athletes then yes, it makes a difference.

BigBatz
11-13-2008, 08:14 PM
I don't know. If genetics played such a big role then I would as big a wuss as my twin brother.

Invain
11-13-2008, 08:29 PM
I didn't say it played a big role, but it does make a difference. Does your twin brother lift weights and follow the exact same diet as you? You're completely missing the point and taking my argument out of context.

Reko
11-13-2008, 08:54 PM
Do you really think somebody like Ryan Kenelly benching 1075 had nothing to do with genetics? Do you really think Ronnie Coleman's dominance in the Mr. O has nothing to do with genetics? Yes they worked their asses off, but that's not the only reason they're the best of the best. I really do think genetics plays a larger role than you give credit for. Sure between poeple like you and me it doesn't really matter at all, but when you're talking top teir athletes then yes, it makes a difference.

Do you train as hard, for as long, and as smart as, as either of the two athletes in this post?
How many people are there that you know who can answer yes to that question?

Invain
11-13-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow, lol. I honestly can't believe some of you think there is no such thing as a genetic advantage. I know this isn't really a scientific article but it's credible enough and explains some things http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/genetics.htm

BigBatz
11-13-2008, 09:01 PM
I didn't say it played a big role, but it does make a difference. Does your twin brother lift weights and follow the exact same diet as you? You're completely missing the point and taking my argument out of context.


Well if he did lift and eat like me then it would just be genetics right? I don't think I took it out of context. The only difference between my brother and I is our work ethic. Genetics is nothing without the work. All the people you named put it the work and genetics were a side benefit. Other people that posted here are just a sucessful and succeeded inspite of their genetics.

I was just comparing an orange with an orange with my example. Plus my brother is a wuss.

BFGUITAR
11-13-2008, 09:02 PM
Do you really think somebody like Ryan Kenelly benching 1075 had nothing to do with genetics? Do you really think Ronnie Coleman's dominance in the Mr. O has nothing to do with genetics? Yes they worked their asses off, but that's not the only reason they're the best of the best. I really do think genetics plays a larger role than you give credit for. Sure between poeple like you and me it doesn't really matter at all, but when you're talking top teir athletes then yes, it makes a difference.

Arnold was a top tier BBer and now there are plenty people bigger and leaner than he was.
Genetics play a role of course but is never the deciding factor.

KarstenDD
11-13-2008, 09:04 PM
Wow, lol. I honestly can't believe some of you think there is no such thing as a genetic advantage. I know this isn't really a scientific article but it's credible enough and explains some things http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/genetics.htm

This:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/akegata/SuccessfulTrollisSuccessful.jpg

Reko
11-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Wow, lol. I honestly can't believe some of you think there is no such thing as a genetic advantage. I know this isn't really a scientific article but it's credible enough and explains some things http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/genetics.htm

Answer the ****ing question.

Invain
11-13-2008, 09:17 PM
Answer the ****ing question.

You know the answer.

Ok seriously this thread is way off course. If somebody wants to start a thread about genetics go for it

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 09:42 PM
You know the answer.

Ok seriously this thread is way off course. If somebody wants to start a thread about genetics go for it

You're just mad because people agree that genetics isn't a very big role. BFGuitar said it perfectly.

Ronnie Coleman is so full of juice (which is awesome, by the way) that there is no genetic code left in his body. I don't know if you're too young to rmember Lawrence Phillips. He played RB at Nebraska in the early 90's. He was on the '94 and '95 National Championship teams. He was one of the greatest RB's I have ever seen play. Not quite Bo Jackson good, but damn close. He had more talent than you could shake a stick at. He very well could've been one of the greatest RB's to ever play the game. On the field, he was unreal. Off the field, he was a mental midget. Trouble with the law, throwing his girlfriend down a flight of stairs. Failed drug tests in the NFL. He went to Europe and played over there. Just to screw it all up and spend some time in prison. If you wanna cry about genetics, he had more than anyone I've seen, except maybe Bo and Michael Jordan. Mentally, he didn't have the mind to pull it together. DO you think there are plyers in the NBA with as much, if not more athletic ability than Michael Jordan? I think so. None will ever come close to him because he had the will to make it happen. The mind is what seperates the best from the pretty damn good ones. Larry Bird is a perfect example of that. It's the mind. If you really think genetics plays that much aof a role, you don't have the mental power to ever be great at something. It's the mind, not the body, dude.

Invain
11-13-2008, 09:53 PM
For the last time, I did not say genetics plays a big role, ESPECIALLY for people not willing to put in the dedication

KarstenDD
11-13-2008, 09:54 PM
There, go to the genetics thread.

BulldogGST2
11-13-2008, 10:10 PM
if genetics don't matter, why are there people who are jacked that don't workout? why are people who don't workout at all, different shapes and sizes? shouldn't they all be the same size if they follow a similar diet and lifestyle? if genetics didn't matter, everyone would look identical.

Person A: Small, claims they can't get big because of their genetics

Person B: Big, claims genetics had nothing to do with it

Both types of logic are flawed in the exact same manner. those people who are big and claiming genetics had nothing to do with it sound just as stupid as those who are small claiming genetics are holding them back.

Both are picking whatever logic suits their situation.

RhodeHouse
11-13-2008, 10:32 PM
For the last time, I did not say genetics plays a big role, ESPECIALLY for people not willing to put in the dedication, but completely ignoring genetics makes me seriously question one's intelligence.

Rambling about genetics makes me question one's intelligence.

Invain
11-13-2008, 10:57 PM
Nvm, not worth it.

WillNoble
11-13-2008, 11:27 PM
Nvm, not worth it.

you should cry more

Invain
11-13-2008, 11:48 PM
you should cry more

I love how nothing you post ever makes sense/is relevent. Thanks though, I'm definitely crying.

WillNoble
11-13-2008, 11:52 PM
I love how nothing you post ever makes sense/is relevent. Thanks though, I'm definitely crying.

I love how you are the only one who finds it irrelevant, youve been pissing and moaning in this whole thread, and have been shot down repeatedly, so you finish with a post like this:



Nvm, not worth it.


Seriously, go back to your sorority, I'm sure someone there can help you remove the sand from your vag.

RichMcGuire
11-14-2008, 01:03 AM
Wow this site seems to have gone down hill just a bit...

Invain
11-14-2008, 06:45 AM
I love how you are the only one who finds it irrelevant, youve been pissing and moaning in this whole thread, and have been shot down repeatedly, so you finish with a post like this:


Trust me, people do find it irrelevant, they just don't even bother posting anymore. See quote below for example:


Wow this site seems to have gone down hill just a bit...

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 07:52 AM
Trust me, people do find it irrelevant, they just don't even bother posting anymore. See quote below for example:










Seriously, go back to your sorority, I'm sure someone there can help you remove the sand from your vag.


....

evnp85
11-14-2008, 08:09 AM
I like how half the people in this thread are doubting that genetics have anything to do with your ceiling.

Tom Mutaffis
11-14-2008, 08:19 AM
I still don't understand how any of this has to do with a guy eating grilled chesse sandwiches.

Maybe another thread can be posted on genetics if everyone wants to have a debate; I'm not really all that interested in the topic though.

Let's all get back to eating / training and not worry about these battles.

Reko
11-14-2008, 08:21 AM
I like how half the people in this thread are doubting that genetics have anything to do with your ceiling.

What ceiling?

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 08:24 AM
Let's all get back to eating / training and not worry about these battles.

You are most certainly correct Tom.


If more people would just eat big/lift big and quit whining about any number of topics as to why they can't succeed (i.e. Invain's crying about genetics) there would be far fewer problems

Invain
11-14-2008, 08:25 AM
I still don't understand how any of this has to do with a guy eating grilled chesse sandwiches.

Maybe another thread can be posted on genetics if everyone wants to have a debate; I'm not really all that interested in the topic though.

Let's all get back to eating / training and not worry about these battles.

It doesn't. The truth is nobody knows how to actually debate, they'd rather use petty insults and turn everything into a huge argument.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117879

BulldogGST2
11-14-2008, 08:26 AM
Person A: Small, claims they can't get big because of their genetics

Person B: Big, claims genetics had nothing to do with it

Both types of logic are flawed in the exact same manner. those people who are big and claiming genetics had nothing to do with it sound just as stupid as those who are small claiming genetics are holding them back.

Both are picking whatever logic suits their situation.

i think this pretty much explains it. i don't see why people are attacking others personally...

Invain
11-14-2008, 08:27 AM
i think this pretty much explains it. i don't see why people are attacking others personally...

Because they have nothing intelligent to add. See above.

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 08:28 AM
Because they have nothing intelligent to add. See above.

Im sure Reko would be glad to FEDEX you some tissues kid...

Invain
11-14-2008, 08:33 AM
Im sure Reko would be glad to FEDEX you some tissues kid...

Lol... your creativity is appalling.

Reko
11-14-2008, 08:33 AM
if genetics don't matter, why are there people who are jacked that don't workout? why are people who don't workout at all, different shapes and sizes? shouldn't they all be the same size if they follow a similar diet and lifestyle? if genetics didn't matter, everyone would look identical.



Were not talking about being bigger than someone, were talking about the smaller person in this example (or the people who weren't born big or whatever) not being limited because he was born small. That's all this is. That's it. If you are born small and weak or big and strong (relatively), it doesn't mean you have to stay that way. There is no reason because of that you are predispoted to bieng weak forever or not reaching your goals. When everything, EVERYTHING has been done to achieve your goals, and they aren't there, THEN they can blame it on that. But who here can honestly say that?

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 08:33 AM
Lol... your creativity is appalling.

Thank you...glad you noticed:hello:

=Travis=
11-14-2008, 08:43 AM
Damn, Reko is like a hobbit, yet he worked his butt off to get where he is. Brad08 I'm sure will show up eventually to sling cutdowns, but he was a tiny kid as well who busted his butt eating and bulking to surpass the 200 mark (I outweigh him by a hundred pounds and my wife who sees me eat everyday, saw him eat and was in awe of the amount of food he put away). My little brother was 130 as a junior in highschool, now weighs 260 at 32 and has some monsterous arms (and he's like 5'8"). Just because you're little doesn't mean you should sit around feeling sorry forself because you can't get big.

If you all would work as hard as you do making excuses, you'd be amazed at your progress.

Reko
11-14-2008, 08:52 AM
If you all would work as hard as you do making excuses, you'd be amazed at your progress.

Annnnnnnnnnnndd sigged.

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 08:55 AM
Annnnnnnnnnnndd sigged.

bah you beat me to it...bastard

evnp85
11-14-2008, 08:59 AM
Were not talking about being bigger than someone, were talking about the smaller person in this example (or the people who weren't born big or whatever) not being limited because he was born small. That's all this is. That's it. If you are born small and weak or big and strong (relatively), it doesn't mean you have to stay that way. There is no reason because of that you are predispoted to bieng weak forever or not reaching your goals. When everything, EVERYTHING has been done to achieve your goals, and they aren't there, THEN they can blame it on that. But who here can honestly say that?

Right, it does not mean you have to stay that way. But can you honestly say that the best of the very best at squatting were not naturally better than the rest when it came to squatting because of their genetics?

The same concept applies to a lot of things. I'd say most of the professional sports players are where they are today because of their genetics and their physical dedication to what they do. There are tons of athletes that give 150% to get to the top and never make it because they reach a limit and are outperformed by somebody else. If they dedicate their lives to something and can't be as good as the next guy, how can you not attribute that to genetics? They were giving all they had and could not be the best. If genetics have a very small role in your performance, shouldn't we all be able to become a star quarterback if we try hard enough?

Reko
11-14-2008, 09:04 AM
Right, it does not mean you have to stay that way. But can you honestly say that the best of the very best at squatting were not naturally better than the rest when it came to squatting because of their genetics?

They may have had a head start, but how do you know who was genetically better at squatting? Maybe someone had bad genetics and worked their way through it? maybe they had good geneteics and worked just as hard and is there now?

The point is, if they worked as hard as possible, sacrificed everything, did everything perfect, and still didn't cut it, then I think you could say they have sub par genetics. But, do we have an example of this? I don't think so.

BulldogGST2
11-14-2008, 09:10 AM
The point is, if they worked as hard as possible, sacrificed everything, did everything perfect, and still didn't cut it, then I think you could say they have sub par genetics. But, do we have an example of this? I don't think so.

so you're claiming that out of the 6.2 billion people in the world, there isn't a single individual who has worked as hard as possible and not achieved the status of an elite level athlete? i've never heard such a ridiculous claim in my life.

evnp85
11-14-2008, 09:11 AM
What about that 17 year old that posts here that has a 700lb squat or something ridiculous? Hes already well ahead of many people that have squatted for much longer than him. He most certainly has a genetic advantage.

evnp85
11-14-2008, 09:12 AM
so you're claiming that out of the 6.2 billion people in the world, there isn't a single individual who has worked as hard as possible and not achieved the status of an elite level athlete? i've never heard such a ridiculous claim in my life.

Exactly, and there are even elite level athletes who don't give it 100% and still manage to be tons better than the guy who give it their all.

Reko
11-14-2008, 09:16 AM
so you're claiming that out of the 6.2 billion people in the world, there isn't a single individual who has worked as hard as possible and not achieved the status of an elite level athlete? i've never heard such a ridiculous claim in my life.

Emphasis added now.


The point is, if they worked as hard as possible, sacrificed everything, did everything perfect, and still didn't cut it, then I think you could say they have sub par genetics. But, do we have an example of this of someone you know personally or on this board that you could attest to? I don't think so.

Happy now? I asked for an example, can you provide one? Is there life on other planets? I have no proof, but I think there are as there are probably millions or billions or trillions of planets out there. Sure, its very possible its out there. Just as there are some people who probably have given it their all, but never made it. JUST LIKE I SAID RIGHT THERE.

But are they on this board in this debate? No. Was the genetics comment directed towards them? No. Its directy to the cry baby "hard gainers" or the people who throw a fit when someone says their genetics aren't holding them back, because, quite frankly, they aren't.

Reko
11-14-2008, 09:17 AM
What about that 17 year old that posts here that has a 700lb squat or something ridiculous? Hes already well ahead of many people that have squatted for much longer than him. He most certainly has a genetic advantage.

So? Good for him. What about hte person who squats 135 then but after years of training hits a 1,000 squat? What then?

evnp85
11-14-2008, 09:17 AM
Happy now? I asked for an example, can you provide one? Is there life on other planets? I have no proof, but I think there are as there are probably millions or billions or trillions of planets out there. Sure, its very possible its out there. Just as there are some people who probably have given it their all, but never made it. JUST LIKE I SAID RIGHT THERE.

But are they on this board in this debate? No. Was the genetics comment directed towards them? No. Its directy to the cry baby "hard gainers" or the people who throw a fit when someone says their genetics aren't holding them back, because, quite frankly, they aren't.

Yea, the 17 year old with the 700 lb squat.

evnp85
11-14-2008, 09:18 AM
So? Good for him. What about hte person who squats 135 then but after years of training hits a 1,000 squat? What then?

So, its not weird or anything that a 17 year old can squat 700 lbs when the average squat on the football team is probably 225?

=Travis=
11-14-2008, 09:18 AM
What about that 17 year old that posts here that has a 700lb squat or something ridiculous? Hes already well ahead of many people that have squatted for much longer than him. He most certainly has a genetic advantage.

I knew a 17 year old when I was in highschool who had a 750 squat and 420 bench and he worked his tail off for it. It didn't come easy. It takes hard work no matter what your genetic situation is.

Reko
11-14-2008, 09:20 AM
Yea, the 17 year old with the 700 lb squat.

You think he never squatted before and walked up and jsut hit 700 his first time? No. He had to trian to get there too. Maybe he didn't have to train as hard, thats fine.

The whole point of this is that just becuase you aren't strong from the get go doens't mean you aren't ever able to get strong. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT BEHIND ALL OF THIS.

I already said that:


Were not talking about being bigger than someone, were talking about the smaller person in this example (or the people who weren't born big or whatever) not being limited because he was born small. That's all this is. That's it. If you are born small and weak or big and strong (relatively), it doesn't mean you have to stay that way. There is no reason because of that you are predispoted to bieng weak forever or not reaching your goals. When everything, EVERYTHING has been done to achieve your goals, and they aren't there, THEN they can blame it on that. But who here can honestly say that?

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 09:24 AM
So, its not weird or anything that a 17 year old can squat 700 lbs when the average squat on the football team is probably 225?

actually my high school's (circa 1999-2000) Power Positions (OL, DL, LB, FB, RB) probably averaged Max Squats in the range of 365 - 600lbs. and I can tell you with very little doubt whatsoever that Genetics played little role in this. Hard work in the weightroom every morning for 4 solid years built this. So before you start talking about 225lb. squat maxes for football, you might want to validate your claims.

edit: The lightest Squat on the O-Line at my college was just shy of 500, the top being 750ish. These were done only with belts and Knee wraps

BulldogGST2
11-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Happy now? I asked for an example, can you provide one? Is there life on other planets? I have no proof, but I think there are as there are probably millions or billions or trillions of planets out there. Sure, its very possible its out there. Just as there are some people who probably have given it their all, but never made it. JUST LIKE I SAID RIGHT THERE.



I know several people personally. that's irrelevant. your logic doesn't make any sense. I know that if a human being jumped off of a 25-story building they would die. are you going to call BS because nobody on this board knows someone that has jumped 25 stories?

if there are 6.2 billion people alive, obviously there are people who train their ass off and will never reach an elite level of athleticism. what you're also claiming is that the stronger people on this board work harder than everyone else-everyone else is just lazier than them. it's ridiculous.

As for the person who starts squatting 135 and ends up squatting 1,000, some people are predispositioned to be stronger than others. sure, they work hard to get there, but only a small percentage of people, no matter how hard they work, could ever squat 1,000lbs.

why isn't everyone on this site who uses anabolics an IFBB pro? are they just lazy?

Brad08
11-14-2008, 09:30 AM
bah you beat me to it...bastard

This gem is still up for grabs:


Reko is like a hobbit

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 09:35 AM
This gem is still up for grabs:

that is not a truly epic post though, I think there is little doubt on the boards that Reko is both half hobbit half troll (the kind that lives under bridges)

Reko
11-14-2008, 09:38 AM
I know several people personally. that's irrelevant. your logic doesn't make any sense. I know that if a human being jumped off of a 25-story building they would die. are you going to call BS because nobody on this board knows someone that has jumped 25 stories?

I would love it if some people on this board did that.



if there are 6.2 billion people alive, obviously there are people who train their ass off and will never reach an elite level of athleticism. what you're also claiming is that the stronger people on this board work harder than everyone else-everyone else is just lazier than them. it's ridiculous.

No i didn't. I completely aknowledge that the person who squated 700 at 17 may have gotten there easier if he had better genetics. But my entire point has been, and still is, that people who are weaker have just as much opportunity to get strong and big than anyone else. They need to put in time and effort (LOTS of both) and if they don't make it after years and years and years and YEARS of a smart combination of both of those, THEN they can, if they really want to, blame it on genetics.

To make ridiculous claims about your comments as you are doing with mine, are all 6.2 billion people training to become an elite athlete? No. The person sitting next to me isn't, nor does she care. There, disproved. Next. (See how stupid that is?)



As for the person who starts squatting 135 and ends up squatting 1,000, some people are predispositioned to be stronger than others. sure, they work hard to get there, but only a small percentage of people, no matter how hard they work, could ever squat 1,000lbs.


That's fine. But you (not you you, general you) can't say that you won't ever squat 1,000 when you are squatting 300-400 right now, becuase you don't have the genetics. When you have trianed hard and smart for 20+ years, doing everything to get to that goal (the entire time), only then can you determine weather or not it was genetics or your work ethic that held you back.



why isn't everyone on this site who uses anabolics an IFBB pro? are they just lazy?

Do they all have goals to be an IFBB pro? Are they doing everything they possibly can, in addition to the AAS, to get to that level? IS there someone else out there doing MORE than they are?

Again, its been said before in this thread, the ones who combine the genetics with great effort, training, nutrition, etc will be at the top, but that doesn't mean the genetics were the only reason they got there, or why someone with sub par genetics can't get there with hard work. But genetics + work will trump no genetics + work.

Brad08
11-14-2008, 09:40 AM
I know several people personally. that's irrelevant. your logic doesn't make any sense. I know that if a human being jumped off of a 25-story building they would die. are you going to call BS because nobody on this board knows someone that has jumped 25 stories?

if there are 6.2 billion people alive, obviously there are people who train their ass off and will never reach an elite level of athleticism. what you're also claiming is that the stronger people on this board work harder than everyone else-everyone else is just lazier than them. it's ridiculous.

As for the person who starts squatting 135 and ends up squatting 1,000, some people are predispositioned to be stronger than others. sure, they work hard to get there, but only a small percentage of people, no matter how hard they work, could ever squat 1,000lbs.

why isn't everyone on this site who uses anabolics an IFBB pro? are they just lazy?

I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or just dumb, but you're completely misstating Reko's argument and creating a strawman.

Regardless, all this typing about "genetics this" and "genetics that" means your fingers are busy, and if your fingers are busy, they aren't stuffing your face, a problem that needs immediate attention.

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 09:43 AM
There is NO one on this board who can say genetics is their limiting factor...period


There are MANY who use the excuse because they refuse to eat and train properly, and are disgusted with the fact that they dont even measure up to 1/10th of the top echelon in their given discipline.


There are also MANY on this board who train hard, eat right, don't piss and moan that they can't do something, and could give a s**t less about genetics, and are some of the best in their given discipline



which group do you fall into?

evnp85
11-14-2008, 09:47 AM
Im done arguing about this. Everyone kind of was arguing about something slightly different and we all just looked like a bunch of idiots doing so.

BulldogGST2
11-14-2008, 09:52 AM
I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or just dumb, but you're completely misstating Reko's argument and creating a strawman.

Regardless, all this typing about "genetics this" and "genetics that" means your fingers are busy, and if your fingers are busy, they aren't stuffing your face, a problem that needs immediate attention.

Your wit and intelligence are astounding. I wasn't aware they prepare you so well at community college...there's not much of a reason to argue about this any longer.

Invain
11-14-2008, 09:57 AM
Your wit and intelligence are astounding. I wasn't aware they prepare you so well at community college...there's not much of a reason to argue about this any longer.

Rofl! Yeah man, there's no point. Welcome to the new WBB!

Brad08
11-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Are you willing to walk around with sore joints all the time?

Are you willing to walk around with 25% bodyfat?

Are you willing to lose girlfriends b/c you have no time for them?

Are you willing to drive an hour each way to train at a serious, hardcore gym?

Are you willing to drive an hour each way just to help spot your training partners?

Are you willing to pack up and move to Columbus, Ohio to train with some of the strongest guys on the planet?

Are you willing to train at any time, day or night?

Are you willing to quit a job b/c it interferes with your training?

Are you willing to eat, and eat, and eat, until you literally can't eat another bite without throwing up, and then do it again 3 hours later, day in and day out?

If not, you'll never know if you had what it takes to be the best.

And if you're whining that someone had it "easier" than you did, welcome to real life. There will ALWAYS be someone stronger than you, smarter than you, tougher than you, faster than you, better than you. Always.

WillNoble
11-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Rofl! Yeah man, there's no point. Welcome to the new WBB!

no the new /WBB/ will be the one after you finally leave or are banned...Such a glorious day it will be

Brad08
11-14-2008, 10:06 AM
Your wit and intelligence are astounding. I wasn't aware they prepare you so well at community college...

Yes, and you'll find out when mom and pop pony up the bucks to get you started there.

=Travis=
11-14-2008, 10:33 AM
Rofl! Yeah man, there's no point. Welcome to the new WBB!

You know what's more funny, is the fact that he has a doctorate. I walked across the stage to get mine right after he got his.

AJL11
11-14-2008, 10:36 AM
Are you willing to walk around with sore joints all the time?

Are you willing to walk around with 25% bodyfat?

Are you willing to lose girlfriends b/c you have no time for them?

Are you willing to drive an hour each way to train at a serious, hardcore gym?

Are you willing to drive an hour each way just to help spot your training partners?

Are you willing to pack up and move to Columbus, Ohio to train with some of the strongest guys on the planet?

Are you willing to train at any time, day or night?

Are you willing to quit a job b/c it interferes with your training?

Are you willing to eat, and eat, and eat, until you literally can't eat another bite without throwing up, and then do it again 3 hours later, day in and day out?

If not, you'll never know if you had what it takes to be the best.

And if you're whining that someone had it "easier" than you did, welcome to real life. There will ALWAYS be someone stronger than you, smarter than you, tougher than you, faster than you, better than you. Always.

Great Post......

Thats exactly what i was thinking....I hear little B****** day in and day out say they are serious about their sport/discipline...Takes a little extra to get to an Elite Status....

=Travis=
11-14-2008, 10:48 AM
You know, whether genetics limit someone is not even an issue as most will never push themselves to that wall where genetics becomes an issue.

faster
11-14-2008, 10:56 AM
I think the most extreme example of genetics being a contributing factor is the differences between men and women. Genetics separate them, yet clearly men will, on average, lift more than women of the same weight and certainly have a greater capacity to lift, in general.Why? Hormone levels, body composition, etc. All decided by genetics. These same factors can be applied to men also, albeit not as extreme as men vs women.