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Lunar Effect
11-29-2008, 01:40 AM
Who are some of the strongest raw powerlifters out there at the moment who are bona fide steroid-free?

I don't use any gear or AAS and I'd be curious to see some of the totals that can be accomplished training raw and natural (and I'd of course love to hear from any of you on WBB that train this way as well).

SELK
11-29-2008, 01:53 AM
first meet i went 500/275/530 @ 220

now my raw gym lifts are around 600/365/600+

i use gear almost primarily now, seems to me like the strongest lifters are using gear and its taking me longer then expected to learn it. Seems like not many people stay raw due to the more competition in the gear.

Reko
11-29-2008, 02:15 AM
I just hit a raw push/pull a month or so ago and did 365/605 in the 242 class. Weighed in at 236ish.

sayagain
11-29-2008, 10:57 AM
You guys are making me feel weak, my gym lifts are 450/380/450. I weigh 275ish. I've had a few set backs due to injury with my squat and deadlift though.

cmirabile
11-29-2008, 11:01 AM
Right now I would say that the best you can show are those who have been drug tested. Siders has done some huge drug tested and raw numbers to my knowledge. Rock Lewis's raw drug tested 600# bench at 229# and 600# @ 241# are almost mythical. The 600# @ 229# is the lightest raw 600# in a contest regardless of testing.

smokinHawk
11-29-2008, 01:12 PM
last meet i did was a raw total at 1262lbs in NASA
think it was something like 407, 342, 513 body weight was 175.4 as i didnt cut weight.

Ben Moore
11-29-2008, 01:44 PM
I went 600/390/705 last year at a raw meet.

Athos
11-29-2008, 08:29 PM
I weigh 177 (cut to 165) and currently do 500/320/540 with wraps and a belt, but that's just in the gym, it's been several years since I've competed, but plan to do so this coming year after being away a while pursuing other sports. I've always been natural and have trained nothing but strict WBB since 1998. If it's been in one of Louie's articles, I've tried it.

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
12-01-2008, 06:44 AM
Who are some of the strongest raw powerlifters out there at the moment who are bona fide steroid-free?

I don't use any gear or AAS and I'd be curious to see some of the totals that can be accomplished training raw and natural (and I'd of course love to hear from any of you on WBB that train this way as well).

I would suggest look at NASA, USAPL ,etc raw/unequipped ranking, records and national meet results.

NASA unequipped pl ranking
http://www.geocities.com/nasa_lifters/PL_MUE.htm

NASA unequipped pl records
http://www.nasa-sports.com/American%20Records/MensUneqPLAR.htm

NASA unequipped national championship results
http://www.nasa-sports.com/Results/Results%20Uequip%20Nats.htm

GerSmith
12-01-2008, 09:42 AM
i am natural and have totalled 1422 @ 165 and 21yrs old. breakdown is 551/308/562. (these are converted from KGS incase their is any discrepancy on bar loads). i expect my raw deadlift to be around 550. (i locked it out before but it slipped out of my hand, and since have gotten stronger, so no doubts about pulling it), wouldnt even know where my raw lifts are at because i use single ply gear exclusively.

Kiknskreem
12-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Joe Braca... 1400+ @ 181.

Tom Mutaffis
12-01-2008, 03:07 PM
Here is a chart that I found on PL Watch:

RAW MEN'S POWERLIFTING CLASSIFICATION CHART
Wt. Class 114 123 132 148 165 181 198 220 242 275 275+
ELITE 904 984 1059 1185 1298 1396 1471 1551 1607 1654 1728
MASTER 850 904 974 1087 1190 1279 1354 1476 1518 1518 1594
CLASS I 750 810 871 979 1068 1148 1209 1279 1321 1359 1420
CLASS II 661 712 768 858 937 1012 1068 1125 1162 1199 1251
CLASS III 571 623 670 754 820 881 932 984 1017 1045 1087
CLASS IV 502 543 586 656 712 768 810 853 890 914 951

These elite totals are attainable natural with the right training, discipline, and nutritional supplements.

MPB
12-01-2008, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the chart, that gives me another goal to shoot for.

GerSmith
12-01-2008, 04:48 PM
while these are nice goals to aim for, this list was put together a long long time ago afaik, it's fairly outdated. Achieving an elite total shouldn't be as easy as having the right training, diet and supplements IMO.

Travis Bell
12-01-2008, 05:02 PM
if not for right training, diet and supplementation, what on earth do you think it should take? a miracle?

HP666
12-01-2008, 05:16 PM
while these are nice goals to aim for, this list was put together a long long time ago afaik, it's fairly outdated. Achieving an elite total shouldn't be as easy as having the right training, diet and supplements IMO.


Um,....I'm a little confused here. So what else is there? Are you saying the totals should be higher? And even if they were higher, if we're talking raw lifting, what else is there besides the right training, diet and supplementation? And the "right" training as far as I'm concerned is balls out, no holds barred, work your ass off training, and it's far from easy. What exactly are you getting at here? You really need to explain yourself more clearly.

MPB
12-01-2008, 05:24 PM
I think he is trying to imply only a few select people can achieve the elite total, those who are "genetically gifted". That's just the impression I got from his post. I have all the time in the world to work on it, seems good enough for me.

Ben Moore
12-01-2008, 07:00 PM
I totalled elite Raw at 275 and I can guarantee you it wasn't easy, LOL.

bill
12-01-2008, 08:46 PM
if not for right training, diet and supplementation, what on earth do you think it should take? a miracle?

about Gersmith
He said he doesn't know his raw because he is using single ply. A bit confusing, elite looks hard enough for me lol. When you consider injuries and so forth getting to elite and staying there for any length of time would be a good feat.

Lunar Effect
12-01-2008, 10:56 PM
I remember 3-4 years ago seeing a highlight of Larry Allen benching 700 lbs raw (at least that's how much the commentator said it was) when he was an offensive lineman for the Dallas Cowboys. Supposedly these guys are tested frequently for steroids, but my feeling is that he found a way to circumvent.

Sidior
12-01-2008, 11:04 PM
I remember 3-4 years ago seeing a highlight of Larry Allen benching 700 lbs raw (at least that's how much the commentator said it was) when he was an offensive lineman for the Dallas Cowboys. Supposedly these guys are tested frequently for steroids, but my feeling is that he found a way to circumvent.

I would seriously stop trying to figure out who uses or not. Testing means less then you think. Only work on improving yourself.

Travis Bell
12-02-2008, 08:46 AM
I remember 3-4 years ago seeing a highlight of Larry Allen benching 700 lbs raw (at least that's how much the commentator said it was) when he was an offensive lineman for the Dallas Cowboys. Supposedly these guys are tested frequently for steroids, but my feeling is that he found a way to circumvent.

Larry's bench was a 3 man lift anyways. He might be good for 600, not 7 though

Travis Bell
12-02-2008, 08:49 AM
They used to have the actual video from summer camp, where it showed him dropping it on his chest, and his 3 spotters lifting it half of the way up

Lunar Effect
12-02-2008, 10:07 AM
Larry's bench was a 3 man lift anyways. He might be good for 600, not 7 though

The video I saw showed him doing it all on his own, however I always assumed that the commentator had the poundage wrong. It was back before I had TiVo and I didn't have enough time to count the plates.

Hazerboy
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1FAbsxREb4

This only shows the end of the lift but yeah 3 guys are helping him. Even worse, look at this article on critical bench:

http://www.criticalbench.com/Larry-Allen-Bench-Press.htm

"I think I could have done more..." seriously? The best benchers in the WORLD bench around 700 raw. You gotta be kidding me.

GerSmith
12-03-2008, 04:43 AM
i just dont think that 100% of all people who engage in strength sports or powerlifting would be able to achieve this goal. I never said that the right training diet and supplementation is not key, i just meant that if you genuinely don't have the genetic capacity to become this strong, then even with the best of training, diet & supplementation, there is a strong chance that some won't achieve an elite total. Am I right in saying that these elite totals were established a long time ago?

An estimation of my raw total based on training numbers would suggest that I am very close to an elite total, i do not for one sec see myself anywhere near elite. Hence why i am asking if these totals are old news. I'm not knocking anybody for achieving these goals or using them as targets. Any sort of PR takes hard work and I admire people for that, I'm not taking that away from anybody. I'm just wondering whether the elite totals should go up due to advances in training methods and so on. Lifters, generally speaking, have the potential and the resources to become stronger nowadays compared to the lifters of years ago. ( I do say this very loosely, we all know of the famous freaky lifts produced down throughout the years)

bill
12-03-2008, 08:08 AM
i just dont think that 100% of all people who engage in strength sports or powerlifting would be able to achieve this goal. I never said that the right training diet and supplementation is not key, i just meant that if you genuinely don't have the genetic capacity to become this strong, then even with the best of training, diet & supplementation, there is a strong chance that some won't achieve an elite total. Am I right in saying that these elite totals were established a long time ago?

An estimation of my raw total based on training numbers would suggest that I am very close to an elite total, i do not for one sec see myself anywhere near elite. Hence why i am asking if these totals are old news. I'm not knocking anybody for achieving these goals or using them as targets. Any sort of PR takes hard work and I admire people for that, I'm not taking that away from anybody. I'm just wondering whether the elite totals should go up due to advances in training methods and so on. Lifters, generally speaking, have the potential and the resources to become stronger nowadays compared to the lifters of years ago. ( I do say this very loosely, we all know of the famous freaky lifts produced down throughout the years)

Good points
I think some like me just lift and sort of train so getting anywhere close to being elite would be tough. I seem stronger in all of the other accessory moves and not really in the big 3, I can't even deadlift due to my back.
For the people who actually are part of a team and "Train" elite is probably much more likely to happen.

I look at raw powerlifting (drugfree) and some guys are hitting big numbers but most are closer to your average joe.

LionLord
12-03-2008, 09:36 AM
I'd like to see Larry Allen go to 100% RAW and prove himself.

notlef70
12-05-2008, 03:19 PM
Don't know, don't care. I would love to meet them though.