PDA

View Full Version : Post Turkey Day Cut



yankeekd25
11-29-2008, 10:03 AM
It's time for me to cut. I've been bulking for a few months now and have put on some size, but fat as well. I'm 205-210 pounds, I'd say ~ 15-17% BF. I'm looking to cut down to 185ish. Then see how my physique is from there.

2300 cals
200 grams of protein
100 grams of fats
150 grams of carbs.

Thoughts? I maintain at 2500-2700 calories.

HIIT ~3x a week
Jog once or twice

I was doing BGB and saw great results. What type of routine should I be doing while on my cut?

Irish Pilot
11-29-2008, 11:54 AM
Im right there with ya man. Started my cut yesterday.

Many suggest that you stay on your routine when you cut, just add cardio. If you saw gains from the program you are on you could just stick with it. I personally changed my routine, but I was doing pretty high volume and I think that would kill me at a caloric deficit. I would also suggest dropping down two your Mx cals for about two weeks (read that several places) before you drop into your deficit. All in an effort to keep the muscle you've earned. Read up on HIIT vs LISS. Still highly debated. I think as long as you keep your HIIT away from your weight training you should be fine. Personally I am going to do LISS post weights and HIIT on rest days.

Best of luck!

KingWilder
11-29-2008, 12:14 PM
Take two weeks at maintenance calories as stated above....good brief write-up on gaining/cutting by Lyle over at bodyrecomposition


So letís put some numbers and guidelines to this.

1. First and foremost, for reasons outlined in my article Initial Body Fat and Body Composition Changes, trainees should not be starting out their muscle gaining phase too fat. Males should be ~10-12% body fat before even considering going on any kind of Ďbulkí (fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan; this is beyond the scope of this article). For a female, this would be roughly equivalent to 19-24% body fat.

Bodybuilders with contest aspirations might even start out a little bit leaner, perhaps 8% for males and 17-20% for females; this is simply to facilitate getting into contest shape in less time. Any leaner than that and hormones and energy tend to suffer. And, yes, this means that many will have to diet first before they even consider putting on muscle. Thatís life.

2. It would be ideal, if, after dieting, the trainee took two weeks at maintenance to stabilize at the new body fat level. The reasons for this are numerous but revolve around letting some of the hormonal adaptations to dieting normalize. Iíve written about this endlessly on the site and my full diet break concept is outlined in detail in both The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook and A Guide to Flexible Dieting. Briefly, take two weeks at roughly maintenance calories with at least 150 grams/day of carbohydrate.

3. Now you can start gaining weight. Assuming relative average partitioning (not superior or inferior), a weight gain of approximately one pound per week (of which half should be muscle) and half a pound per week for females (of which half should be muscle), or 4 and 2 pounds/month respectively should roughly maximize muscle gains without excessive fat gain. There will be some fat gain, of course, but, simply, any faster rate of weight gain (Iíve seen folks suggest 2-3 pounds per week) will only increase fat gain without increasing the rate of muscle mass gain.

4. When the trainee hits a body fat percentage of approximately 15% for men (24-27% for women), the mass gaining phase should end. How long this take will depend on the size of the person but realistically, a 170 pound male trainee with 10% body fat could gain 16 pounds (8 pounds fat, 8 pounds muscle) before hitting the 15% mark. At one pound per week, thatís 16 weeks of gaining. Which, Iíd note should be broken up into at least two separate training blocks.

A female starting at 130 pounds and 19% body fat could realistically get to 154 pounds (12 pound fat/12 pounds lean) before hitting 24% body fat. For the female trainee, at one half-pound per week is nearly a year of training; again that would be broken up into distinct training phases.

5. After finishing the mass-gaining phase, a consolidation phase of two weeks (this used to be called a Ďhardeningí phase) where calories are brought back down to maintenance levels (and cardio, if not being done, is brought in) should occur before actively dieting.


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

Irish Pilot
11-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Thanks King...I knew I had read that in one of Lyle Ms articles...just couldnt find it lol!

yankeekd25
11-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Yeah thanks King. Good advice. I know I am definitely above 15%. I just wanna see how I'll look after a period of strict cutting. I haven't really had a strict diet in a few months. I actually cut the cals down (except for Thursday) in anticipation of a cut. I'm gonna start it on Monday. How do the numbers look? Also what type of lifting routine do you recommend King? I've been on BGB for the duration of the bulk. Time to switch that up?

Good luck to you too Pilot.

KingWilder
11-29-2008, 04:34 PM
Numbers look fine...I'm starting to lean now towards more food on lifting days and less calories (also no starches) on non-lifting days. If you're fine eating the same amount every day than don't worry about it, I'm sure the difference is negligible (just a mental thing for me - I also IF, so my off days might be less food, but they come in bigger meals)

Anyway, what type of volume and lifts were you using with BGB? I actually love the set-up the way it is and since you aren't too concerned with gaining mass or strength on a cut, just maintaining it, I don't see a reason to go crazy with changes.

Post up what you've been doing. If anything you might want to bring the volume down a little bit and maybe change a few exercises.

yankeekd25
11-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Numbers look fine...I'm starting to lean now towards more food on lifting days and less calories (also no starches) on non-lifting days. If you're fine eating the same amount every day than don't worry about it, I'm sure the difference is negligible (just a mental thing for me - I also IF, so my off days might be less food, but they come in bigger meals)

Anyway, what type of volume and lifts were you using with BGB? I actually love the set-up the way it is and since you aren't too concerned with gaining mass or strength on a cut, just maintaining it, I don't see a reason to go crazy with changes.

Post up what you've been doing. If anything you might want to bring the volume down a little bit and maybe change a few exercises.

Mon:
Bent over rows 5x5
High cable rows 3x8-10
T bar rows 3x8-10
DB/ BB bench 5x5
Incline 3x8

Tues:
Squat 5x5
Leg Press 3x8-10
Hamstrings 3x12-15
DB curls/ Preachers/ BB curls 5x5/ 3x8-10

Wed: Off

Thurs:
Chin ups 5x5
Lat pulldowns 3x8-10
High machine rows 3x8
Bent over lateral raises 3x10
DB/ BB shoulder press 5x5
Lateral raises 3x8

Fri:
Deads 5x5
Lunges 3x8-10
High foot placement leg presses 3x8
Skullcrushers/ dips 5x5
Cable pulldowns 3x8-10

Just some progress/ stats:
I've seen my bench go from 135 to 225x2, my squat jump from 185x1 to 275x2, and my deadlift go from 135 to 275x5.

KingWilder
11-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Just my suggestion...overall set-up was good, but as stated earlier you'll probably want lower volume on a cut.

Mon:
BB flat/incline bench 3-5x5
DB flat/Incline 2-3x8

BO or T-Bar Rows 3-5x5
Machine or Cable Row 3x8-10




Tues:
Front or Back Squat 3-5x5
Leg Press or Sissy Squat 3x8-10

Hamstring Curl 3x8-10

Seated DB Curl 3x5
Incline DB Curl (slow negative) superset with close-grip pull-down 2x8

Wed:
Off

Thurs:
Weighted Pull-ups/Chin-Ups 3-5x5
Lat Pulldown or Pull-up/Chin (opposite of what you did for heavy) 3x8

BB Press/Push Press 3-5x5
DB Arnold Press Superset with lateral raises 2-3x8

Fri:
Either Romanian Deadlifts 2-3x5
OR
Deadlifts 2x3-5
*work up to ONE heavy set of 5
*reduce load by 10-15% and perform another set of 5

Lunges or Step-Ups 3x8-10


Weighted Dips 3-5x5
Triceps exercise of choice 3x8-10


15-20min steady state incline walking might be a good idea to throw in after these workouts as well....assuming proper caloric deficit you won't need any other cardio.


Awesome Progress man...try to maintain/increase that a little with your cut and you'll be golden

yankeekd25
11-30-2008, 05:52 AM
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the help King. Gonna start this all on Monday. What exactly is steady state incline walking?

I'll keep you updated with my progress.

Oh, btw... I'm starting to hear your footsteps in the Pick Em Pool. This should be a helluva finish till the end.

KingWilder
11-30-2008, 12:14 PM
Incline Walking (treadmill) at Steady State just means keep a constant pace...probably 3.5-4.0 or a moderate speed

jAy_Dub
11-30-2008, 12:42 PM
I'd lower your fats and increase the protein amounts. You'll have a much easier time holding on to muscle if you're getting in closer to 275-300 grams of protein. Also I'd try and keep your fat intake from lean meats alone and maybe from a egg yolk or two. Keep the foods clean and make sure and do cardio a few times a week starting out at 30 minutes (maintaining a 120 heart rate) and once you stop losing fat start doing 45 minutes of cardio.

This should work for a long time, I lost 40 lbs doing something similar. Keep the cheat meals to one day a week and stick to it!

KingWilder
11-30-2008, 01:11 PM
No need for 275-300g of protein...I think 250 is about as high as you'd want to go....take away from carbs or fats as necessary (it doesn't matter which)

yankeekd25
12-01-2008, 02:34 PM
No need for 275-300g of protein...I think 250 is about as high as you'd want to go....take away from carbs or fats as necessary (it doesn't matter which)

I find that my body doesn't react that well to carbs. I'm only gonna eat around 150 grams a day, mostly coming from the banana I put in my shake, milk, brown rice/ whole wheat pastas, and those hidden carbs in peanuts and stuff. For fats, I plan on eating tons of ground sirloin (90/10), sirloin steaks, peanuts, olive oils, and once in a while I'll have 2 or 3 scrambled eggs or omelet w/ some type of protein for breakfast. I'm not a fan of hard boiled yolks.

Y2A
12-02-2008, 10:08 AM
If you maintain at 2500, I would probably shoot for 2000 so you can drop a pound a week (on average). 2300 is a little too close to maintenance IMO.

yankeekd25
12-02-2008, 04:28 PM
If you maintain at 2500, I would probably shoot for 2000 so you can drop a pound a week (on average). 2300 is a little too close to maintenance IMO.

Man. I already find myself starving at 2300. 2000 would be crazy low for me. You think it's necessary though?

KingWilder
12-02-2008, 06:21 PM
2000 is not necessary...you would just lose weight at a greater rate.

It really is going to depend on how long you want to cut for...if you want to get it over with, go with 2000, if you can stand a slower loss go with 2300 and reduce it as needed if you stop losing