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SGT ROCK
12-02-2008, 06:41 PM
With the endless bashing of some very questionable squats lately, which is firstly the fault of the JUDGES, lets take a peek and see if UNQUESTIONABLE depth can be judged from the front, and lets see how judging USED TO BE, via this WORLD RECORD squat:

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/1428_ed_coan_423kg_wr_squat_at_100_(1994)

Deep enough?

Back when I first started powerlifting if someone got a WR you never even for second had to second guess the judging, how many plies was he wearing, how long was the weigh ins and so on. Ahhh the good old days lol.

Semper Fi

Brian Hopper
12-02-2008, 06:47 PM
As soon as i saw Ed Coan's name i knew it was going to be DEEP!

Athos
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
Truly a thing of beauty.

BigTallOx
12-02-2008, 07:09 PM
That's a nice squat, no question about depth.

nhlfan
12-02-2008, 07:14 PM
I don't think the judges were even watching

they just waited for the sound of his ass slapping the floor

Hazerboy
12-02-2008, 07:16 PM
I never understood why anyone would bash a lifter about a lift being legitimate. You see this a lot on forums and the internet in general. Squats not at parallel, bench not locked out, whatever - if a lift isn't legit and still gets passed its the judge's fault.

Pitbull3291
12-02-2008, 07:18 PM
that was some nice depth for 1000lbs damn

BigTallOx
12-02-2008, 07:21 PM
I never understood why anyone would bash a lifter about a lift being legitimate. You see this a lot on forums and the internet in general. Squats not at parallel, bench not locked out, whatever - if a lift isn't legit and still gets passed its the judge's fault.

I've got to agree with that, if the judges pass it and it's not parallel, then it's the judge's fault ( unless the lifter paid off the judges ).

starfox
12-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Definitely deep enough...

RhodeHouse
12-02-2008, 08:51 PM
This is a stupid argument to have. So you're an IPF/USAPL guy who thinks that only the IPF/USAPL rules are right. It's impossible to squat that deep in the gear today. There's no 2 ply canvas out there were you can get that deep.

The whole squat depth thing is an old story. It's always the single-ply/raw guys that have to cry about it. What do you care if a judge passed a lift that wasn't yours? Anybody who gets a gift will take the call. And, if you say you won't, you're a liar.

I know this post is in reference to Donnie Thompson's squat of 1235. If I stand up and take that video, it'll look deep. If I'm lower than his knees, it'll look high. The only view that tells depth is the side view. That's why the side judges call depth. It makes sense.

Great. Ed Coan squatted deep. Stop being the internet judge that everybody hates. The judges at the IPA thought he was deep enough - great lift Donnie.

Jealousy is an ugky emotion.

BFGUITAR
12-02-2008, 09:06 PM
Yeh if the judge calls it, it's legal. No use saying anything otherwise...

I thought his squat was great... I never see squats that deep in a suit. It's definitely interesting.

Detard
12-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Yeh if the judge calls it, it's legal. No use saying anything otherwise...

I thought his squat was great... I never see squats that deep in a suit. It's definitely interesting.

Check out rusty's 550lb squat from the summer if you wanna see deep squats in a suit. He bottomed that sucker out.

BigTallOx
12-02-2008, 09:15 PM
Check out rusty's 550lb squat from the summer if you wanna see deep squats in a suit. He bottomed that sucker out.

Who is rusty? Where is this? I want to see.

Travis Bell
12-02-2008, 09:21 PM
This is a stupid argument to have. So you're an IPF/USAPL guy who thinks that only the IPF/USAPL rules are right. It's impossible to squat that deep in the gear today. There's no 2 ply canvas out there were you can get that deep.

The whole squat depth thing is an old story. It's always the single-ply/raw guys that have to cry about it. What do you care if a judge passed a lift that wasn't yours? Anybody who gets a gift will take the call. And, if you say you won't, you're a liar.

I know this post is in reference to Donnie Thompson's squat of 1235. If I stand up and take that video, it'll look deep. If I'm lower than his knees, it'll look high. The only view that tells depth is the side view. That's why the side judges call depth. It makes sense.

Great. Ed Coan squatted deep. Stop being the internet judge that everybody hates. The judges at the IPA thought he was deep enough - great lift Donnie.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

I have to agree with you here Matt. Just a pointless debate to have

deeder
12-02-2008, 10:07 PM
With the endless bashing of some very questionable squats lately, which is firstly the fault of the JUDGES, lets take a peek and see if UNQUESTIONABLE depth can be judged from the front, and lets see how judging USED TO BE, via this WORLD RECORD squat:

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/1428_ed_coan_423kg_wr_squat_at_100_(1994)

Deep enough?

Back when I first started powerlifting if someone got a WR you never even for second had to second guess the judging, how many plies was he wearing, how long was the weigh ins and so on. Ahhh the good old days lol.

Semper Fi

Beautiful squat. Simply perfect.

I love watching videos of Ed Coan squatting. His intensity approaching the bar is incredible.

SELK
12-02-2008, 10:33 PM
eds squats where always very good, if he came up with it, the lift was his.

thompsons squat sure looks high from the vid, but vids dont tell the whole story.

Chalky Palms
12-02-2008, 10:43 PM
Donnie's squat looked high, So does pretty much every other heavy squat I see from the front. Great lift in my opinion.

SGT ROCK
12-02-2008, 10:51 PM
No bros it wasn't a direct attack on Donnie or anyone else for that matter. It was a wakeup call for JUDGING in general. Judging has become lax accross the board in recent years, its FACT, if you don't believe it you need a big dose of reality. I have been on stage for twenty years plus and have seen many of the big shows and judging is becoming LAX. We should change the rules because people can't get a legal squat in, in double ply stuff? Come on now! Mikessel and Goggins did it, it can be done. Vlad has dunked huge squats that many thought were deep, it can surely be done. If someone knocks a lift too many people think it is a bash on a lifter, in reality it is JUDGING. I hold two world refs card and can assure you judging is more lax now than I have ever seen, it only waters down the records. I posted Eddys squat to show you that a huge squat, in past years, was NEVER second guessed. You knew it was good as it seemed WR lifts were actually scrutinized MORE than a regular lift, good bad or otherwise, it was the case many would say. Donnie is a great lifter, but many thought his squats were high. Were they? The judges thought they were good and like it or not, they are in the record books so congrats to Donnie. If you dont think so, blame the judges not the lifter. I have personally witnessed bad judging so I am not claiming internet judging, its with my own eyes. DL judging is more valid via video, and I have seen some less than adequate dls passed as well. Pointless arguement? NO WAY! Judging needs to tighten up period, there needs to be more of a standard for all time records for sure.




Semper Fi

Chalky Palms
12-02-2008, 11:22 PM
Nobody is arguing that coan's squats weren't deeper than thompson's. I think that is obvious. The point is he only had to hit parallel, you don't HAVE to squat ATG for it to be a legit squat. That being said, good luck proving he didn't hit parallel with a front view video. I'm not directing this at you SGT ROCK, just stating my opinion.

SGT ROCK
12-02-2008, 11:26 PM
Nobody is arguing that coan's squats weren't deeper than thompson's. I think that is obvious. The point is he only had to hit parallel, you don't HAVE to squat ATG for it to be a legit squat. That being said, good luck proving he didn't hit parallel with a front view video. I'm not directing this at you SGT ROCK, just stating my opinion.

Bro I respect that, there are several views of donnies squat posted, but this is more about the judging accross the board. I believe BLATANT high squats CAN be judged from the front, but not close squats.

Semper Fi

Brad08
12-03-2008, 06:14 AM
I think a lot of the criticism, skepticism and complaints would disappear if there weren't 27 different powerlifting organizations with 32 definitions of "parallel." It'd go a long way if there were one federation with a raw class and a full gear class, and a set of rules most can live with (meaning, not everybody's thrilled with the rules but they're a decent set of rules, negotiated across the splintered federations, that most people can accept).

brihead301
12-03-2008, 07:23 AM
I may never squat 423 Kg, but that's about the depth I squat at too. I just like squatting as deep as I can. It just makes me feel stronger. Then again, I'm not training for world records, just PR's.

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 08:24 AM
No bros it wasn't a direct attack on Donnie or anyone else for that matter. It was a wakeup call for JUDGING in general. Judging has become lax accross the board in recent years, its FACT, if you don't believe it you need a big dose of reality. I have been on stage for twenty years plus and have seen many of the big shows and judging is becoming LAX. We should change the rules because people can't get a legal squat in, in double ply stuff? Come on now! Mikessel and Goggins did it, it can be done. Vlad has dunked huge squats that many thought were deep, it can surely be done. If someone knocks a lift too many people think it is a bash on a lifter, in reality it is JUDGING. I hold two world refs card and can assure you judging is more lax now than I have ever seen, it only waters down the records. I posted Eddys squat to show you that a huge squat, in past years, was NEVER second guessed. You knew it was good as it seemed WR lifts were actually scrutinized MORE than a regular lift, good bad or otherwise, it was the case many would say. Donnie is a great lifter, but many thought his squats were high. Were they? The judges thought they were good and like it or not, they are in the record books so congrats to Donnie. If you dont think so, blame the judges not the lifter. I have personally witnessed bad judging so I am not claiming internet judging, its with my own eyes. DL judging is more valid via video, and I have seen some less than adequate dls passed as well. Pointless arguement? NO WAY! Judging needs to tighten up period, there needs to be more of a standard for all time records for sure.




Semper Fi

If anything, judging for squats has gotten better in the past few years because of all the crying. When you judge, you can be Johnny Tough Calls. Judges will call things how they see it. If you don't like it, tough. Lift in federations that supposedly follow the rules more closely.

The pointlessness of this debate still remains. You don't hear the NFL receivers crying about handchecking, or D-Linemen crying about holding. It happens on every play. The rules are not followed to a "T", yet no one seems to cry on a consistant basis. When there's pass interference by a DB and it's not called, you don't see them agruing that they did, in fact, interfere. So why should we cry? Lift where you want and deal with the calls you get.

If you want to go on a better judging quest, go for it. Do it on your own accord. This thread is the same crap that's on powerliftingwatch, and that place sucks. All people do is bitch and moan about bad calls. Go there and plead your case. Leave this place for better discussions that people care about.

Chalky Palms
12-03-2008, 08:51 AM
If anything, judging for squats has gotten better in the past few years because of all the crying. When you judge, you can be Johnny Tough Calls. Judges will call things how they see it. If you don't like it, tough. Lift in federations that supposedly follow the rules more closely.

The pointlessness of this debate still remains. You don't hear the NFL receivers crying about handchecking, or D-Linemen crying about holding. It happens on every play. The rules are not followed to a "T", yet no one seems to cry on a consistant basis. When there's pass interference by a DB and it's not called, you don't see them agruing that they did, in fact, interfere. So why should we cry? Lift where you want and deal with the calls you get.

If you want to go on a better judging quest, go for it. Do it on your own accord. This thread is the same crap that's on powerliftingwatch, and that place sucks. All people do is bitch and moan about bad calls. Go there and plead your case. Leave this place for better discussions that people care about.

You have a point about not getting calls right all the time but I think there's a difference between a world record and one call in a normal NFL game. This is why people get so upset. To me the squat was close enough to be legit.

Travis Bell
12-03-2008, 10:14 AM
No bros it wasn't a direct attack on Donnie or anyone else for that matter. It was a wakeup call for JUDGING in general. Judging has become lax accross the board in recent years, its FACT, if you don't believe it you need a big dose of reality. I have been on stage for twenty years plus and have seen many of the big shows and judging is becoming LAX. We should change the rules because people can't get a legal squat in, in double ply stuff? Come on now! Mikessel and Goggins did it, it can be done. Vlad has dunked huge squats that many thought were deep, it can surely be done. If someone knocks a lift too many people think it is a bash on a lifter, in reality it is JUDGING. I hold two world refs card and can assure you judging is more lax now than I have ever seen, it only waters down the records. I posted Eddys squat to show you that a huge squat, in past years, was NEVER second guessed. You knew it was good as it seemed WR lifts were actually scrutinized MORE than a regular lift, good bad or otherwise, it was the case many would say. Donnie is a great lifter, but many thought his squats were high. Were they? The judges thought they were good and like it or not, they are in the record books so congrats to Donnie. If you dont think so, blame the judges not the lifter. I have personally witnessed bad judging so I am not claiming internet judging, its with my own eyes. DL judging is more valid via video, and I have seen some less than adequate dls passed as well. Pointless arguement? NO WAY! Judging needs to tighten up period, there needs to be more of a standard for all time records for sure.


Well if this thread is just about judging, I still fail to see how talking about it on an internet forum (along with all the other forums) is going to help the situation at all.

I agree with Matt again, if you want to change the state of judging, go and judge some meets. Or promote some meets and set the tone with your meet refs.

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 10:33 AM
I have judged meets. Its so easy to just go with the flow but when someone points out the obvious its against the grain. Deep down inside everyone knows what a good lift is. If a squat is high or dl isn't locked out, YES you can OFTEN see it on the vid, especially a DL. The NFL doesn't have the lax refereeing that we have in our sport. No crying in the NFL? Where ya been bro! How about the TWO calls with Ed Hochili that were each on Sportscenter and Around the Horn, and Jim Rome for over a week each! If ONE bad call happens in the NFL you ALWAYS hear about it. We have so many inconsistent calls in our sport, you can almost feel it coming with certain shows. Were you any of you on the platform twenty years ago to see where judging has gone? You may not want to agree with me, but ask the HUGE MAJORITY of veteran lifters and they will tell you that juding needs to get back on track....now back to the thread.......

BACK IN THE DAY LOL

THere was never any question on depth...

how about that squat of Coan lol!

I can agree to disagree bros. I am not trying to change your minds, just giving my veteran opinion. Lets move on and talk about an undboubtedly good squat here, I put it up for the beginning guys to show them how squat standards used to be and how I was taught to squat.

Semper Fi

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 11:09 AM
Good point about the NFL reffing. But, the calls were being cried about on TV by "experts" - Douche bags who couldn't possibly understand what it's like to play or ref in a big game. You never hear players or coaches, beyond the post-game interviews, cry about bad calls. but, you hear about PL cals forever. Always by nobodies or anonymous posters who couldn't hold a candle to the guys on the platform.

Get over the old days. It's a new era. I understand how you were taught. Probably, the way it should be. But, it's not. Times change. Keep up or get left behind. Darwinism in powerlifting.

Lunar Effect
12-03-2008, 12:18 PM
No bros it wasn't a direct attack on Donnie or anyone else for that matter. It was a wakeup call for JUDGING in general. Judging has become lax accross the board in recent years, its FACT, if you don't believe it you need a big dose of reality. I have been on stage for twenty years plus and have seen many of the big shows and judging is becoming LAX. We should change the rules because people can't get a legal squat in, in double ply stuff? Come on now! Mikessel and Goggins did it, it can be done. Vlad has dunked huge squats that many thought were deep, it can surely be done. If someone knocks a lift too many people think it is a bash on a lifter, in reality it is JUDGING. I hold two world refs card and can assure you judging is more lax now than I have ever seen, it only waters down the records. I posted Eddys squat to show you that a huge squat, in past years, was NEVER second guessed. You knew it was good as it seemed WR lifts were actually scrutinized MORE than a regular lift, good bad or otherwise, it was the case many would say. Donnie is a great lifter, but many thought his squats were high. Were they? The judges thought they were good and like it or not, they are in the record books so congrats to Donnie. If you dont think so, blame the judges not the lifter. I have personally witnessed bad judging so I am not claiming internet judging, its with my own eyes. DL judging is more valid via video, and I have seen some less than adequate dls passed as well. Pointless arguement? NO WAY! Judging needs to tighten up period, there needs to be more of a standard for all time records for sure.

I'm with you Sarge....

Lunar Effect
12-03-2008, 12:20 PM
I may never squat 423 Kg, but that's about the depth I squat at too. I just like squatting as deep as I can. It just makes me feel stronger. Then again, I'm not training for world records, just PR's.

The deeper you squat, the more of a man you are. This is scientifically proven.

AJL11
12-03-2008, 12:55 PM
The deeper you squat, the more of a man you are. This is scientifically proven.

hahahhahh

EFFFF That........Squat High!!!!!

Detard
12-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Who is rusty? Where is this? I want to see.

Rusty is a member of this board. Him and I competed at an IPF meet in the summer. This was his 550 squat

mWnj8GSnDYk

And this was his 3rd attempt, which was actually red lighted for depth.

LouozzpzW7Q

evilxxx
12-03-2008, 01:13 PM
I think a lot of the criticism, skepticism and complaints would disappear if there weren't 27 different powerlifting organizations with 32 definitions of "parallel." It'd go a long way if there were one federation with a raw class and a full gear class, and a set of rules most can live with (meaning, not everybody's thrilled with the rules but they're a decent set of rules, negotiated across the splintered federations, that most people can accept).

This is what I was waiting for!! Then we wonder why we get as much respect as the WWE!!! I bet if there was only 3-5 Federations in the US and 2-3 Internationals we would be on the way to be a televized sport and possibly an Olympic one too.

when you say baseball 'MLB' comes to mind,Basketball 'NBA', Hockey 'NHL', Powerlifting ?.... (in other countries IPF comes to mind)

Travis Bell
12-03-2008, 01:34 PM
good grief. heeeere we go....

thewicked
12-03-2008, 01:38 PM
This is a stupid argument to have. So you're an IPF/USAPL guy who thinks that only the IPF/USAPL rules are right. It's impossible to squat that deep in the gear today. There's no 2 ply canvas out there were you can get that deep.

The whole squat depth thing is an old story. It's always the single-ply/raw guys that have to cry about it. What do you care if a judge passed a lift that wasn't yours? Anybody who gets a gift will take the call. And, if you say you won't, you're a liar.

I know this post is in reference to Donnie Thompson's squat of 1235. If I stand up and take that video, it'll look deep. If I'm lower than his knees, it'll look high. The only view that tells depth is the side view. That's why the side judges call depth. It makes sense.

Great. Ed Coan squatted deep. Stop being the internet judge that everybody hates. The judges at the IPA thought he was deep enough - great lift Donnie.

Jealousy is an ugky emotion.

excellent post

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 02:31 PM
To answer the many emails I have gotten on this issue, I am NOT an IPF guy and have never been. Most of the meets I have done have been APF or WABDL which both have very separate rules. To those that think multi ply lifters cant get down to LEGAL depth have never been to one of Russ Barlows shows where judging was strict but consistent. Its a shame that many folks never got to see what its like to see consistent judging at every single show, they have nothing to compare it too hence no animosity on my part. I find it so hard to believe that people think many of the lifts are good and they just wont listen to the vets or experienced lifters or judges that have been around for a long while. Its not about moving on or accepting change. THE EQUIPMENT SHOULD ADAPT TO THE RULES, NOT THE RULES CHANGING FOR THE EQUIPMENT! I have spoke with a dozen or more greats and all time greats, not ONE is satisfied with todays judging, take it for what it is worth.
Some of you are right, the debate will never end but nonetheless this is the number one viewed thread on this board, so at least people have an opinion and are willing to express it in a civil manner, that is what forums are for.
No one is right or wrong but everyone should be respected. Also never compare PL to other sports, there is no way you can compare a 20 percent increase in ones effectiveness in any other sport, like you can with PL gear advances. No other sport has had the changes we have had, if you care to call it a sport anymore. At least there is still the deadlift that isnt as effected by gear, and although I don't lift raw, the raw records are largely UNTOUCHED over the past decade or so, and that will continue to be the trend. Some good points on this thread and on several other forums that I have read as well, from some very respected names in PL. In my old gyms in Maine, if you cut a squat high it was a bodybuilding squat, now in many gyms if its cut high its a powerlifting squat, quite a turnaround.

Semper Fi

Semper Fi

Big_Byrd52
12-03-2008, 02:34 PM
No, its not deep enough until your intestines shoot out your ass! Then there is no question whether u hit depth or not!


http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/


.:omg::moon:

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 02:44 PM
No, its not deep enough until your intestines shoot out your ass! Then there is no question whether u hit depth or not!


http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/


.:omg::moon:

LOL

Some people actually think that really happened at a PL show. Good post Byrdman, see you in a few weeks.

Semper Fi Leatherneck

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 05:36 PM
If you get 3 whites you squatted too deep.

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 05:39 PM
This is what I was waiting for!! Then we wonder why we get as much respect as the WWE!!! I bet if there was only 3-5 Federations in the US and 2-3 Internationals we would be on the way to be a televized sport and possibly an Olympic one too.

when you say baseball 'MLB' comes to mind,Basketball 'NBA', Hockey 'NHL', Powerlifting ?.... (in other countries IPF comes to mind)

PL is not a TV friendly sport, nor is it a spectator friendly sport. We like it because we understand it and love it. What we don't get is that our sport is so small and so obscure that it's never gonna be mainstream, like Strongman. It's just not fun to watch. Plus, people can't comprehend what an 800lb bench means. But, they can comprehend a guy walking 80 meters with 2 refrigerators on his back. That's one of the reasons Strongman caught on.

Lones Green
12-03-2008, 05:40 PM
PL is not a TV friendly sport, nor is it a spectator friendly sport. We like it because we understand it and love it. What we don't get is that our sport is so small and so obscure that it's never gonna be mainstream, like Strongman. It's just not fun to watch. Plus, people can't comprehend what an 800lb bench means. But, they can comprehend a guy walking 80 meters with 2 refrigerators on his back. That's one of the reasons Strongman caught on.

LOL, good point.

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 05:41 PM
To answer the many emails I have gotten on this issue, I am NOT an IPF guy and have never been. Most of the meets I have done have been APF or WABDL which both have very separate rules. To those that think multi ply lifters cant get down to LEGAL depth have never been to one of Russ Barlows shows where judging was strict but consistent. Its a shame that many folks never got to see what its like to see consistent judging at every single show, they have nothing to compare it too hence no animosity on my part. I find it so hard to believe that people think many of the lifts are good and they just wont listen to the vets or experienced lifters or judges that have been around for a long while. Its not about moving on or accepting change. THE EQUIPMENT SHOULD ADAPT TO THE RULES, NOT THE RULES CHANGING FOR THE EQUIPMENT! I have spoke with a dozen or more greats and all time greats, not ONE is satisfied with todays judging, take it for what it is worth.
Some of you are right, the debate will never end but nonetheless this is the number one viewed thread on this board, so at least people have an opinion and are willing to express it in a civil manner, that is what forums are for.
No one is right or wrong but everyone should be respected. Also never compare PL to other sports, there is no way you can compare a 20 percent increase in ones effectiveness in any other sport, like you can with PL gear advances. No other sport has had the changes we have had, if you care to call it a sport anymore. At least there is still the deadlift that isnt as effected by gear, and although I don't lift raw, the raw records are largely UNTOUCHED over the past decade or so, and that will continue to be the trend. Some good points on this thread and on several other forums that I have read as well, from some very respected names in PL. In my old gyms in Maine, if you cut a squat high it was a bodybuilding squat, now in many gyms if its cut high its a powerlifting squat, quite a turnaround.

Semper Fi

Semper Fi

My McDonald's thread was #1 until it was shut down for no reason. 20+ pages. That's what people want to talk about. Not squat depth. No one cares, and those that do need to move on. This is the way it is. crying about it won't solve anything. Eat McDonald's.

Big_Byrd52
12-03-2008, 06:09 PM
To answer the many emails I have gotten on this issue, I am NOT an IPF guy and have never been. Most of the meets I have done have been APF or WABDL which both have very separate rules. To those that think multi ply lifters cant get down to LEGAL depth have never been to one of Russ Barlows shows where judging was strict but consistent. Its a shame that many folks never got to see what its like to see consistent judging at every single show, they have nothing to compare it too hence no animosity on my part. I find it so hard to believe that people think many of the lifts are good and they just wont listen to the vets or experienced lifters or judges that have been around for a long while. Its not about moving on or accepting change. THE EQUIPMENT SHOULD ADAPT TO THE RULES, NOT THE RULES CHANGING FOR THE EQUIPMENT! I have spoke with a dozen or more greats and all time greats, not ONE is satisfied with todays judging, take it for what it is worth.
Some of you are right, the debate will never end but nonetheless this is the number one viewed thread on this board, so at least people have an opinion and are willing to express it in a civil manner, that is what forums are for.
No one is right or wrong but everyone should be respected. Also never compare PL to other sports, there is no way you can compare a 20 percent increase in ones effectiveness in any other sport, like you can with PL gear advances. No other sport has had the changes we have had, if you care to call it a sport anymore. At least there is still the deadlift that isnt as effected by gear, and although I don't lift raw, the raw records are largely UNTOUCHED over the past decade or so, and that will continue to be the trend. Some good points on this thread and on several other forums that I have read as well, from some very respected names in PL. In my old gyms in Maine, if you cut a squat high it was a bodybuilding squat, now in many gyms if its cut high its a powerlifting squat, quite a turnaround.

Semper Fi

Semper Fi

Yea, no kidding the APF and WABDL have different rules... they completely eliminated squats in WABL! They got the right damn idea tho, if u want to eliminate the squat depth controversy, just eliminate the damn squat all together! Besides that, u get go eat sooner too.

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 06:32 PM
My McDonald's thread was #1 until it was shut down for no reason. 20+ pages. That's what people want to talk about. Not squat depth. No one cares, and those that do need to move on. This is the way it is. crying about it won't solve anything. Eat McDonald's.

For somebody that doesn't care bro you sure have gone out of your way to post on this thread lol! I love McDonalds! 4 egg mcmuffins every morning when I get off work!! Squat depth may not be a good topic, but bad judging sure is!! Thanks for posting, I respect everyones take on this or any issue.
For the record I did not shut down the McDonalds thread and to be honest I didn't read it either. There are many opinions on this matter even though the original post wasn't what the conversation is now, at least everyone is posting and its civil.

Semper Fi

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 06:33 PM
Yea, no kidding the APF and WABDL have different rules... they completely eliminated squats in WABL! They got the right damn idea tho, if u want to eliminate the squat depth controversy, just eliminate the damn squat all together! Besides that, u get go eat sooner too.

LOL WABDL has never had the squat with the exception of a couple meets. Most of the APF shows I did were run by Russ so the judging was always right on and the meets were always run smooth.

Semper Fi

RhodeHouse
12-03-2008, 08:51 PM
For somebody that doesn't care bro you sure have gone out of your way to post on this thread lol! I love McDonalds! 4 egg mcmuffins every morning when I get off work!! Squat depth may not be a good topic, but bad judging sure is!! Thanks for posting, I respect everyones take on this or any issue.
For the record I did not shut down the McDonalds thread and to be honest I didn't read it either. There are many opinions on this matter even though the original post wasn't what the conversation is now, at least everyone is posting and its civil.

Semper Fi

Well, because of the same ole BS, this site and EliteFTS are the only ones I visit. Posts like this, just like every other site, are the reason why I don't waste my time on the other sites. It's an old story and there are better things to talk about. This is one of those debates where the winner is the last guy on the keyboard. I'm done because all this crying about bad judging is ridiculous. Shut up and lift.

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 09:50 PM
Well, because of the same ole BS, this site and EliteFTS are the only ones I visit. Posts like this, just like every other site, are the reason why I don't waste my time on the other sites. It's an old story and there are better things to talk about. This is one of those debates where the winner is the last guy on the keyboard. I'm done because all this crying about bad judging is ridiculous. Shut up and lift.

No bro your wrong there is no winner. Bad judging does NOTHING to benefit anyone in the sport, and bringing judging to the forefront DOES have some merit. It would take a blind man to at least see the bad calls on the DL, I have seen numerous calls on the squat in person, but once the DLs are getting whites for bent knees and hitches it is indeed time to shed some light on it. We can agree to disagree, I am cool with that but nonetheless it needs to be discussed. Just because you dont agree with the majority on this one doesn't mean it doesn't have merit to be discussed. If you feel judging is super in all meets I am glad for you, I just dont have that feel good feeling about it and I care about the sport as I was taught by legends, and those same legends are disgusted even moreso than I am with the state of the judging right now. Threads like this keep it in the forefront and if nothing else may help tighten up SOME of the calls.

Semper Fi

Travis Bell
12-03-2008, 10:15 PM
Actually I don't think that Rhodes is in the minority. Least not from my perspective. If he were in the minority, multiply meets would be a TON less popular than they are. I think that the majority took one single example and applied it to all powerlifting, when in reality thats a bad way to do things.

Judging will be good in some places, bad in others. But at the end of the day, I'm still giving this SPORT all I've got (yes its still a sport) and I love every minute of it.

Brent, I still don't understand how repeating this same old argument though really helps judging. This topic has been discussed before. All over the place. Judges either don't care or don't read the forums. If we were all to sit back take a look at the situation, we'd realize that if we honestly wanted to bring significant change to powerlifting that means you need to be in the judges chair and promoting meets as a director. Simply complaining about it doesn't really change much. I realize some of the legends of the sport are not happy with how things are going (and I'll give Ed Coan huge credit because that guy DOES get in the judges chair) but you know what? The legends before them probably didn't like the transitions before that! Its cyclical. Fortunately I don't lift for the approval of others. I lift for my own self respect.

I don't really care I guess. Its been discussed countless times before and it'll be discussed again. Change is always happening one way or another. Nothing is ever static. No matter what powerlifting changes to, I'll still do it. Cancel out the shirts, fine, I'll give raw 110%. Make even better shirts. Fine, I'll wear those. I don't care.

So long as there are men and women who love lifting the most weight they possibly can, there will be powerlifting.

SGT ROCK
12-03-2008, 10:24 PM
Hey Travis I agree with some of what you said, but I am just not the type to sit back and watch, I am not, and never will be a YES MAN. Who knows what the majority is? Look at the other forums and count the posts on the subject, its one sided bro, and the people I respect MOST in PL all agree judging is lax, so we differ in that opinion. I plan on doing more judging next year if my schedule will allow it. I am going to travel 3000 miles across the country to lift and judge in a show back where my family lives, which is where home really is for me. I care for the sport and as a Marine and the way I was brought up I just cant sit back speechless and let it happen. Bro I have been in this sport much longer than you have so you dont really know my perspective. When I started there were 3 FEDERATIONS BRO! The state championships team trophy was so sought after gyms recruited for months to get the win, and it was huge if you won! Now winning a state title is nothing as you can win 11 world championships in one year as one lifter did. Judging is lax bro, it is.....it really is. If you dont want to believe it then fine, I respect that, at least look at some of the DLs on video bro, you cannot dispute a DL video, as for the squats, some are so high its pathetic via video, but aside from that, I have seen it in person with my own eyes. Agree to disagree, if no one cares why do they keep posting bro? Obviously its one subject that everyone seems to have an opinion on. Please dont ever try and state that the squats of today are as deep as they were a decade ago, and the rules havent changed on depth, same with the DL, a hitch is a hitch is a hitch. Bro are you going to judge any shows this year? If you think judging is fine maybe you should go get tested, sit in the chair and keep it that way....or is that not fair to say? I have been, and will be in the chair again next year to answer your question.

Semper Fi

Travis Bell
12-03-2008, 10:53 PM
Brent, you completely missed the point of my post but thats fine. I'm done here.

evilxxx
12-04-2008, 12:01 AM
PL is not a TV friendly sport, nor is it a spectator friendly sport. We like it because we understand it and love it. What we don't get is that our sport is so small and so obscure that it's never gonna be mainstream, like Strongman. It's just not fun to watch. Plus, people can't comprehend what an 800lb bench means. But, they can comprehend a guy walking 80 meters with 2 refrigerators on his back. That's one of the reasons Strongman caught on.
I guess you got a point there...

Big_Byrd52
12-04-2008, 12:43 AM
I don't really care I guess. Its been discussed countless times before and it'll be discussed again. Change is always happening one way or another. Nothing is ever static. No matter what powerlifting changes to, I'll still do it. Cancel out the shirts, fine, I'll give raw 110%. Make even better shirts. Fine, I'll wear those. I don't care.

So long as there are men and women who love lifting the most weight they possibly can, there will be powerlifting.


Good Point Trav! There should be a 110% raw fed. ill get with Obama and have him appoint a committee to appoint a investigatory panel on the possibility of having a committee investigate the likely success of such a venture. Of course their findings will then have to be submitted to an committee oversight committee for approval before an official anouncement of a commission to appoint an investigatory committee can be made.

By cutting thru all that red tape, we should know something by the time all the troops are withdrawn from iraq.:confused:

SGT ROCK
12-04-2008, 01:09 AM
Good Point Trav! There should be a 110% raw fed. ill get with Obama and have him appoint a committee to appoint a investigatory panel on the possibility of having a committee investigate the likely success of such a venture. Of course their findings will then have to be submitted to an committee oversight committee for approval before an official anouncement of a commission to appoint an investigatory committee can be made.

By cutting thru all that red tape, we should know something by the time all the troops are withdrawn from iraq.:confused:

Dude im rolling over here laughing......stop it lol.

Semper Fi

Lones Green
12-04-2008, 03:16 AM
Good Point Trav! There should be a 110% raw fed. ill get with Obama and have him appoint a committee to appoint a investigatory panel on the possibility of having a committee investigate the likely success of such a venture. Of course their findings will then have to be submitted to an committee oversight committee for approval before an official anouncement of a commission to appoint an investigatory committee can be made.

By cutting thru all that red tape, we should know something by the time all the troops are withdrawn from iraq.:confused:

LOL!!!!!

bill
12-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Rusty is a member of this board. Him and I competed at an IPF meet in the summer. This was his 550 squat

mWnj8GSnDYk

And this was his 3rd attempt, which was actually red lighted for depth.

LouozzpzW7Q

being a internet judge I pass both of those lifts, but I think the first is what all squats should look like or close to it.... then there is little debate

I don't think either where overally deep though? :confused:

RHarris
12-05-2008, 11:30 AM
Brent, I still don't understand how repeating this same old argument though really helps judging. This topic has been discussed before. All over the place. Judges either don't care or don't read the forums. If we were all to sit back take a look at the situation, we'd realize that if we honestly wanted to bring significant change to powerlifting that means you need to be in the judges chair and promoting meets as a director. .

In my opinion, that's exactly why we need to keep this as a relevant discussion any time we can. May the current cadre of judges out there doesn't care or read these posts, but every month/year there are a new generation of lifter coming into the ranks. Many of these do read the post and many do care about the integrity of the sport... And this is our pool of judges for the future. We need to make sure that they continue to care about the integrity of the lifts, the quality of the judging and get them actively involved in promotion and adminstration of meets.

That is how we can make changes. That is why these types of discussion need to remain in the forefront. Yes it may take time, but change never comes from ignoring the situation or accepting less than the true standard.

Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

notlef70
12-05-2008, 03:24 PM
ED Coan is the Bomb...

SGT ROCK
12-05-2008, 05:30 PM
In my opinion, that's exactly why we need to keep this as a relevant discussion any time we can. May the current cadre of judges out there doesn't care or read these posts, but every month/year there are a new generation of lifter coming into the ranks. Many of these do read the post and many do care about the integrity of the sport... And this is our pool of judges for the future. We need to make sure that they continue to care about the integrity of the lifts, the quality of the judging and get them actively involved in promotion and adminstration of meets.

That is how we can make changes. That is why these types of discussion need to remain in the forefront. Yes it may take time, but change never comes from ignoring the situation or accepting less than the true standard.

Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV



That was what I was trying to say lol! Very well said Robert!

Semper Fi