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LionLord
12-04-2008, 12:14 PM
I am really frustrated by my progress. Last 9 weeks, I maxed out on deads at 405. Now, my current estimated max is only 415. It's a really pathetic progress. Here's my typical Max Effort Deadlift session:
Work up to either a 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM on whatever lift that involves the posterior chain.
Leg exercise (whatever works.)
Heavy abs.

Note that I don't do any extra assistance work for my posterior chain. Is that the problem??? I'm afraid to overtrain.

accuFLEX
12-04-2008, 12:16 PM
Eating enough?

butcher2
12-04-2008, 12:24 PM
What brought my deadlift up was pull throughs, back raises, and GHR's. Hit your posterior chain hard. You're probably weak with it the way it is and I doubt you'll overtrain adding in more. My deadlift was **** too and since I've been hammering away at my posterior chain and my hammies it's really taken off.

jtteg_x
12-04-2008, 12:35 PM
there could be many factors involved such as nutrition, DE work needed, assistance deadlift work, use of bands/chains, etc.

Chalky Palms
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
Eating enough?

doubt it

Lunar Effect
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
I am really frustrated by my progress. Last 9 weeks, I maxed out on deads at 405. Now, my current estimated max is only 415. It's a really pathetic progress. Here's my typical Max Effort Deadlift session:
Work up to either a 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM on whatever lift that involves the posterior chain.
Leg exercise (whatever works.)
Heavy abs.

Note that I don't do any extra assistance work for my posterior chain. Is that the problem??? I'm afraid to overtrain.

The 405 mark was my sticking point for a while as well. For me I think some of it was mental because I could rep out 395 for 5 reps, but couldn't get more than 1 rep once I added the 4th plate.

I started doing pull-throughs, concentric good mornings, and weighted hypers and I've seen my deadlift increase by 60 pounds in the last few months. I also alternated each week between barbell and trap bar deads, but I do believe that you need to pull heavy in some form every week - I know that some will not agree with that.

But yes, once your core lifts stall you need to add assistance exercises to strengthen your weak points.

Lones Green
12-04-2008, 02:19 PM
you will get stuck, it happens. eat more, and do more assistance that is going to have carryover to your deadlift:

pull throughs (with cable or bands)
reverse hypers
GHR's
leg curls
squats
power squats
hip work
back raises

etc etc etc.

Lunar Effect
12-04-2008, 03:02 PM
you will get stuck, it happens. eat more, and do more assistance that is going to have carryover to your deadlift:

pull throughs (with cable or bands)
reverse hypers
GHR's
leg curls
squats
power squats
hip work
back raises

etc etc etc.

Leg curls? really? My understanding has always been that it is like the leg extension in that it does nothing to improve strength in the other lifts.

Travis Bell
12-04-2008, 03:22 PM
Leg curls are different than leg extensions. Lones is right, they will help. We do them all the time at Westside

LionLord
12-04-2008, 03:32 PM
The main advice that I'm getting in this thread right now is to do more assistance work for my ass. I think I'll do that... And as far as eating enough? I eat 5-6 meals a day and my mom is already complaining about my gluttony. I think I'm getting about 60-100 grams of protein a day. I know that it may not be enough but who cares? I'm not trying to gain weight. I'm already fat and I really hope I can go down to the 198 for my first competition(I'm currently at 205)... And apparently, my expectations haven't been met yet. I was expecting to do be able to deadlift atleast 455 next week but judging from my last deadlift session, I'm still too weak for it... but hey, the meet is in March 14, 2009, I still have 3 months to prepare. And right now, atleast my Deadlift went from 405 to 415. It's a pathetic progress but it's better than nothing...

Hopefully, I'm made up of white meat. If I am, that only means that I suck at repping out and that there's still hope for a big DL next week.

Oh, another thing. I've made PRs in concentric zercher good mornings with two stances and I raised my squat from 350 to 365, and yet, my DL only gained like 2% after 9 weeks of hard work. This blows.

LionLord
12-04-2008, 03:34 PM
you will get stuck, it happens. eat more, and do more assistance that is going to have carryover to your deadlift:

pull throughs (with cable or bands)
reverse hypers
GHR's
leg curls
squats
power squats
hip work
back raises

etc etc etc.

I've been neglecting hip work for awhile. Thank you for the enlightenment. :scratch:

TKisner
12-04-2008, 04:09 PM
[QUOTE=LionLord;2049615]I think I'm getting about 60-100 grams of protein a day. QUOTE]


Theres your problem. Or at least a big part of it.

LionLord
12-04-2008, 04:11 PM
Oh come on. I'm not trying to gain weight.

Lunar Effect
12-04-2008, 04:21 PM
Leg curls are different than leg extensions. Lones is right, they will help. We do them all the time at Westside

I get that they're different, but what I was saying was that they had no carryover to other lifts. Doing leg curls only gets you stronger at doing leg curls, and doesn't actually help with deads or squats. Or so that was always my understanding...

Lones Green
12-04-2008, 05:19 PM
I get that they're different, but what I was saying was that they had no carryover to other lifts. Doing leg curls only gets you stronger at doing leg curls, and doesn't actually help with deads or squats. Or so that was always my understanding...

leg curls make your hamstrings stronger, which makes your squat and deadlift stronger. its not rocket science...

also 100 grams of protein is not going to cut it, unless you weigh 100 lbs. i hope you don't, but if you do, GAIN WEIGHT. you say you get 100 grams of protein a day, but who cares? if you're looking to get stronger you need more protein.

accuFLEX
12-04-2008, 06:06 PM
Oh come on. I'm not trying to gain weight.

If you're not gaining weight, expect to continue having mediocre lifts and gains

Lunar Effect
12-04-2008, 06:12 PM
leg curls make your hamstrings stronger, which makes your squat and deadlift stronger. its not rocket science...

And it's not as simple as you put it either. If you're squatting or deadlifting 500 pounds, isn't that working your hamstrings more than any isolated leg curl machine can? What stress is 150-pound iso curls going add that the core lifts didn't take care of already? The machine at my gym goes to 200 pounds and I maxed on on it years ago. I've never seen a leg curl that with 500+ pounds of resistance.

RhodeHouse
12-04-2008, 09:51 PM
Oh come on. I'm not trying to gain weight.

You have a lot to learn, my friend. Find training partners that can help you.

RhodeHouse
12-04-2008, 09:54 PM
I am really frustrated by my progress. Last 9 weeks, I maxed out on deads at 405. Now, my current estimated max is only 415. It's a really pathetic progress. Here's my typical Max Effort Deadlift session:
Work up to either a 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM on whatever lift that involves the posterior chain.
Leg exercise (whatever works.)
Heavy abs.

Note that I don't do any extra assistance work for my posterior chain. Is that the problem??? I'm afraid to overtrain.

WTF does this mean? You have no idea what you're doing. "Whatever leg exercise works?" Seriously? This is your plan? I can tell you exactly why you're going nowhere.

Overtrain? Stop reading the nonsense you're reading and start lifting. Give us a call in 10 years when you figure it out. I have no clue where you got your info, but it's bad.

Squat
Deadlift
Good Mornings
Bench
Military Press
Rows
Pull-ups

That's all you need to be doing.

JHarris
12-04-2008, 10:09 PM
I raised my squat from 350 to 365, and yet, my DL only gained like 2% after 9 weeks of hard work. This blows.

First of all, predicted maxes don't mean anything. Period.

Second of all, 15 lbs on your squat and 10lbs on your deadlift are not bad gains. If you continued this "pathetic" progress all year, you'd put 60 lbs on your squat and 40 on your deadlift, conservatively. That hardly seems bad. I wish I had that sort of progress in me without gaining weight.

LionLord
12-05-2008, 08:24 AM
WTF does this mean? You have no idea what you're doing. "Whatever leg exercise works?" Seriously? This is your plan? I can tell you exactly why you're going nowhere.

Overtrain? Stop reading the nonsense you're reading and start lifting. Give us a call in 10 years when you figure it out. I have no clue where you got your info, but it's bad.

Squat
Deadlift
Good Mornings
Bench
Military Press
Rows
Pull-ups

That's all you need to be doing.

Umm, that may be a little offensive to Dave Tate and Louie Simmons. lol. Thanks for the advice though. And as far as "any leg exercise that works", I meant to do stuff like one legged squats, olympic squats. front squats, or any quad dominant exercise that i could think of. I just think I need to do more assistance work for my posterior chain.

jbrin0tk
12-05-2008, 06:51 PM
Just as an example with the leg curls, I've been doing leg curls at home with a blue band for 3 or 4 sets, building the reps as I go, doing them twice a week. This is in addition to the hamstring work I do in the gym. My hamstrings have gotten a lot stronger since I've started doing the extra work.

JasonLift
12-05-2008, 08:03 PM
Sure, Dave is so offended he posts Rhodes training logs and articles on his site. I have learned more about powerlifting from Tate and Simmons and people they trained than anyone, but it would be absurd to think you cannot learn something from many different people. IN the early stages of lifting sticking to the basics will take most people the furthest. Rhodes is an accomplished powerlifter who has done what you want to do, listen to him and others and pick up what works for you and set records.



Umm, that may be a little offensive to Dave Tate and Louie Simmons. lol. Thanks for the advice though. And as far as "any leg exercise that works", I meant to do stuff like one legged squats, olympic squats. front squats, or any quad dominant exercise that i could think of. I just think I need to do more assistance work for my posterior chain.

RhodeHouse
12-06-2008, 01:37 AM
Umm, that may be a little offensive to Dave Tate and Louie Simmons. lol. Thanks for the advice though. And as far as "any leg exercise that works", I meant to do stuff like one legged squats, olympic squats. front squats, or any quad dominant exercise that i could think of. I just think I need to do more assistance work for my posterior chain.

I'll make sure to call Dave and Louie and let them know.