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LionLord
12-10-2008, 03:33 PM
A few weeks ago, i deadlifted 405 for a max single. I did concentric zercher good mornings afterwards for 3 weeks. These were my top sets: week 1 = 185x1, week 2 = 185x4!!!!, week 3 = 225x2-3 (couldn't remember)
After that, I widened my stance: week 4 = 235x3, week 5 = 255x1, week 6 = 255x2

I also did power squats in this 9 weeks worth of training and increased my max from 350ish to 365. My squats were a little scrambled for the 9 weeks. I didn't do them in the usual "3 weeks of doing it and just diss it" format. i kinda just threw them in in between my zercher gms.

What really frustrates me is that I made good PRs from the other lifts but my actual deadlift barely went up with an estimated 415 pounds. Why did this happen?

Lunar Effect
12-10-2008, 03:40 PM
What really frustrates me is that I made good PRs from the other lifts but my actual deadlift barely went up with an estimated 415 pounds. Why did this happen?

Because to be a great deadlifter, you need to pull heavy every week.

LionLord
12-10-2008, 03:57 PM
Because to be a great deadlifter, you need to pull heavy every week.

...Lol. I disagree. The deadlift can drain the life out of your CNS if done frequently. Especially with an average joe like me. But you have a good logic behind your thoughts so I'm probably gonna consider on adding DLs as an assistance exercise.

Tom Mutaffis
12-10-2008, 04:01 PM
You say "estimated deadlift"

Deadlift is one of those movements where some of those forumlas do not make sense. I can pull 1RM almost 100 lbs more than what I can do for 3 reps on deadlift.

Wouldn't consider zerchers the best movement for carryover either. Things like rack pulls, deficit deadlifts, good mornings, front squats, stiff leg deadlifts, etc. generally work better when it comes to boosting your deadlift.

Lunar Effect
12-10-2008, 04:02 PM
...Lol. I disagree. The deadlift can drain the life out of your CNS if done frequently.

Your CNS will be plenty safe if you deadlift once per week. Don't worry about that.

What is your current rep scheme? I was doing 4x5 for several months until I stalled out, then I switched to 4x3 (10-15% increase with each set) and the gains increased once again. Sometimes a change in that department can get things rejuvinated.

bcsneed
12-10-2008, 04:02 PM
I think you just need to step back and realize over nine weeks you gained 10 pounds on your pull. That is a good improvement over a relatively short period.

Lunar Effect
12-10-2008, 04:04 PM
Wouldn't consider zerchers the best movement for carryover either. Things like rack pulls, deficit deadlifts, good mornings, front squats, stiff leg deadlifts, etc. generally work better when it comes to boosting your deadlift.

I agree with that. The only substitutes I'll make for deads are rack pulls and trap bar deads. If I stop pulling heavy, then my deads go down.

LionLord
12-10-2008, 04:08 PM
...But I love Zerchers! They make me feel like a man due to the amount of pain that it gives me!

Thanks for the advice though. Especially Lunar Effect and Tom Mutaffis. It sounds like you know what you're talking about.

Oh, anyway, when it comes to speed pulls, should i do the usual 6-10x2, or do I just pull singles?

LionLord
12-10-2008, 04:09 PM
Wouldn't consider zerchers the best movement for carryover either. Things like rack pulls, deficit deadlifts, good mornings, front squats, stiff leg deadlifts, etc. generally work better when it comes to boosting your deadlift.

Umm, I did Zercher GOOD MORNINGS. it's pretty much just a tougher movement from regular GMs.

Lunar Effect
12-10-2008, 05:51 PM
Umm, I did Zercher GOOD MORNINGS. it's pretty much just a tougher movement from regular GMs.

Concentric good mornings might be a better substitute. Read the section here:

http://elitefts.com/documents/supplemental_exercises.htm

HP666
12-10-2008, 06:13 PM
Umm, I did Zercher GOOD MORNINGS. it's pretty much just a tougher movement from regular GMs.

Do you have a video? I'd like to see you do these. Seriously.

Darracq
12-10-2008, 06:22 PM
Maybe deadlift every other week or every 10 days? different stances exc. There are a lot of ways to do it, but i agree you need to deadlift more often than you did.

TJM
12-10-2008, 06:32 PM
I don't do regular deadlifts unless I'm warming up or going for a max. BUT I DO some form of a deadlift every week. Think about what you're doing when you deadlift... you're pulling a bar about 2 feet off the floor from a quarter squat position to lock out. So, what will make doing that easier?
1. Platform deadlifts. Increase the range of motion. Will all can rack pull more then we can deadlift cause we're so used to pulling from the floor that pulling off a rack is so easy. Do enough platform deads and regular deadlifts will feel like easy rack pulls.
2. Straight leg deads. If you get good at pulling with out engaging your legs when you do use your legs it will be so easy. (you can also do these off a platform)
3. Rack pulls from below the knees. Work up to about 3 reps with what you want your dealift max to be. If you can rack pull it more then once you will eventually be able to deadlift it with a little extra effort.

So, you don't need to deadlift but you need to do some variation of it, IMO. That what works for me. I've actually never done a good morning in my life and my dead is only a fart away from 700. Not saying that GMs don't work, they do, but I think you gotta do harder variations of the deadlift to make the deadlift it self easier.

Lunar Effect
12-10-2008, 06:52 PM
I don't do regular deadlifts unless I'm warming up or going for a max. BUT I DO some form of a deadlift every week. Think about what you're doing when you deadlift... you're pulling a bar about 2 feet off the floor from a quarter squat position to lock out. So, what will make doing that easier?
1. Platform deadlifts. Increase the range of motion. Will all can rack pull more then we can deadlift cause we're so used to pulling from the floor that pulling off a rack is so easy. Do enough platform deads and regular deadlifts will feel like easy rack pulls.
2. Straight leg deads. If you get good at pulling with out engaging your legs when you do use your legs it will be so easy. (you can also do these off a platform)
3. Rack pulls from below the knees. Work up to about 3 reps with what you want your dealift max to be. If you can rack pull it more then once you will eventually be able to deadlift it with a little extra effort.

So, you don't need to deadlift but you need to do some variation of it, IMO. That what works for me. I've actually never done a good morning in my life and my dead is only a fart away from 700. Not saying that GMs don't work, they do, but I think you gotta do harder variations of the deadlift to make the deadlift it self easier.

My feelings exactly. Great post.