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TJM
12-11-2008, 05:51 PM
From your experiences are these better, worse or have any benefits over regular push presses?

Dingus
12-11-2008, 06:53 PM
Doing anything behind your neck is rough on your shoulders, stick with the regular push press.

Notorious
12-11-2008, 06:54 PM
I would think you could use more weight (since you don't have to move your head out of the way), but I personally have never done them heavy.

Brad08
12-11-2008, 08:14 PM
From your experiences are these better, worse or have any benefits over regular push presses?

IMO, IF you have healthy, flexible, balanced shoulders, they're safe (the shoulder position isn't that much diff't than a snatch). You can go much heavier b/c the rack is much more stable (the same difference between bar position in a back squat and a front squat), and b/c of the position you'll get more trap and lateral/rear delt activation, if that's your thing. But they can be risky b/c most lifters (and people in gen'l) don't have flexible, balanced shoulders. That's my .02

KarstenDD
12-11-2008, 08:29 PM
Doing anything behind your neck is rough on your shoulders, stick with the regular push press.


...most lifters (and people in gen'l) don't have flexible, balanced shoulders...

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/BoogienightsDD/Second.jpg

I don't think I know anyone who could regularly push press from behind the head regularly without terrible things happening to their shoulders.

ZenMonkey
12-11-2008, 08:32 PM
I will do them to setup an OH squat sometimes but I probably wouldnt do them for reps for the same reasons as above

pie zar
12-11-2008, 11:28 PM
I know ed coan used to do behind the neck push press. I do them for reps sometimes and have never had a problem but i wouldnt max out that way.

Matthew White
12-12-2008, 12:07 PM
As with anything, if you are going to do it, EASE into it. I'd do a couple of weeks with just a plate on each side to allow your body to build flexibility and get used to the mechanics, then slowly over another few weeks add weight till you are at a working weight.

Brad08
12-12-2008, 12:24 PM
that's ^^ great advice b/c you're heading for trouble if you're a "typical" lifter w/ tight shoulders (too much benching) and suddenly throw a huge weight on your back b/c you can and pop it overhead. You'll find you can put up a lot of weight b/c teh rack position is so solid, you just slide your hands out wide, dip and POP that bar up, and suddenly you've got 225-315 pounds overhead supported by inflexible shoulders that are full of knots, then you try to "gently" set that bar down w/ your arms pronated wildly in a really deep stretched position.

Ryan Hale
12-12-2008, 01:56 PM
Brad,good feedback.My question to you is this.If you were working with high school kids,would you prefer front presses vs behind the neck presses???

I have the kids I work with go to the front. What I've noticed with kids doing behind the neck is that they have the tendency to let the bar drop onto their neck,which of course is bad news.Also with kids who have a limited range of motion in the shoulder joint I think they are bad news.
Also do you think the whole shoulder region can get strong and stable(injury prevention) by only going to the front? I would think with other lifts,squats for example,they rear area of the delts would be more than covered?

Ryan Hale

Ben Moore
12-12-2008, 02:16 PM
Have them do them in front. Kids at that age need to learn the basics and less the variations

Ryan Hale
12-12-2008, 02:24 PM
Thanks Ben.

Ryan Hale

Brad08
12-12-2008, 03:05 PM
Have you seen those kids lift on youtube?

Yeah, there's no way I'd have a bunch of HS kids monkeying around with heavy weights behind their necks. Some idiot's going to lose the lift overhead and wreck his shoulder or drop it onto his or his buddy's cervical vertebrae.

Reko
12-12-2008, 03:20 PM
We were actually taught our Push presses/jerks from BTN. However, the coach was adamant on having a spotter on each side to lower the weight. The purpose was mainly to use as much weight as possible in a double dip fashion to get it overhead. I had a decent lift there but probably couldn't touch it now due to flexibility issues.

Brad08
12-12-2008, 03:34 PM
We were actually taught our Push presses/jerks from BTN. However, the coach was adamant on having a spotter on each side to lower the weight. The purpose was mainly to use as much weight as possible in a double dip fashion to get it overhead. I had a decent lift there but probably couldn't touch it now due to flexibility issues.

jesus. Guess you didn't have bumpers?

Reko
12-12-2008, 03:49 PM
No we did, it was just for when we did multiple reps that the spotters would lower it. We also did them out of a rack mostly (football/experienced people may have been different).

TJM
12-12-2008, 07:11 PM
seems like improving shoulder flexibility is the way to go for me now. Any suggestion on the best way to do that? I been meaning to work on it actually, my shoulders are not flexible at all. I think that is why I've gotten injured before.

Ben Moore
12-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Band dislocates

Matthew White
12-12-2008, 08:36 PM
After you are done lifting do a static stretch by standing in a doorway with your arms high to either side and with your head up lean forward stretching your pecs and shoulders. This is a stretch I have used for many different sports (ie rugby, jujitsu, strongman, powerlifting) and has helped me to maintain insane flexibility of the shoulder. The shoulder dislocates work very well also but remember to do more than one stretch as the shoulder has many different angles to work from.

Brad08
12-13-2008, 06:23 AM
another thing I think works well for flexibility is simply using the lift your training and work on getting comfortable in the deep position(s). for example, squat flexibility seems to be improved simply by working on getting good positions deep in the hole, and holding them little by little. as for the shoulder, consciously start locking out your overhead presses in line with your ear and work on locking out further and further back, little by little. Pretty soon, you should have enough flexibility that you can hit and hold good positions with your shoulders (meaning the deltoid AND the muscles around your shoulder blades). At that point, BTN work is no sweat.

http://www.marunde-muscle.com/myspace/jesse150hangsnatch.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/086N0G32MwfB7/340x.jpg

Brad08
12-13-2008, 06:27 AM
and just b/c I think overhead stuff is cool:

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Ryan Hale
12-13-2008, 07:16 AM
Brad,

Another question for you,whats with that double or triple "pump" at the bottom of that guys squat? I have saw that a few times now when guys are doing squats.
Thanks for all the help.

I have not saw any footage of BTN press on you tube,just what I've noticed with another coach and the weight room.

Ryan Hale

Brad08
12-13-2008, 07:34 AM
Brad,

Another question for you,whats with that double or triple "pump" at the bottom of that guys squat? I have saw that a few times now when guys are doing squats.

I have no idea.


I have not saw any footage of BTN press on you tube,just what I've noticed with another coach and the weight room.



You'll probably see more BTN jerks b/c it's more typically used by olympic lifters. You might find good BTN vids just browsing through olympic training videos on youtube. IIRC, there's a video on youtube of Coan doing BTN presses.

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JasonLift
12-13-2008, 01:14 PM
and just b/c I think overhead stuff is cool:



Heh that looks like it was taking no effort for the guy to do that. I have no idea how much weight that was but it seemed to require as much strain as a walk in the park.

CleverName
12-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Both lifts have their benefits. Doing a push press from behind the neck is much stronger than from the front rack. I can do about 220lbs BTN, but only about 190 from the front. I don't know whether I have more flexible shoulders than the next guy, but I've never experienced any problem with shoulder flexibility while doing them. They're good for ya, do them if you like.

Jeremy Leonard
12-13-2008, 07:40 PM
Brad,

Another question for you,whats with that double or triple "pump" at the bottom of that guys squat? I have saw that a few times now when guys are doing squats.
Thanks for all the help.

I have not saw any footage of BTN press on you tube,just what I've noticed with another coach and the weight room.

Ryan Hale

Im not Brad but I know th lifter in the video(competes on the same team as me). He's an old power lifter who we converted to Olympic lifting. If I remember correctly he's doing the bounce to help stretch himself out. He's really stiffe and tight not used to the deep full squat. He also does it in the clean if I remember correctly. The lift was to help him have more gas in the tank going for he Jerk after the clean.