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[R_H]
01-08-2009, 01:54 AM
Sadly, I go to a gym where all but one of the trainers only know how to use Nautilus machines (etc.).

Except for the dumbells and the benchpresses, free-weights aren't used much by the gym members. Inspite of this, I'd like to learn how to squat. I learned how to deadlift with the help of Mark Ripptoe's videos on Crossfit.com.

However, other than his "Intro to the Lowbar Squat" (which is just a short intro, just shows the important basics), there aren't any other videos on the site that teach the squat step by step.

What videos on Youtube can I use to learn how to squat properly?

Thanks

nhlfan
01-08-2009, 02:29 AM
squat rx, by our own member, sensei

[R_H]
01-08-2009, 02:45 AM
squat rx, by our own member, sensei

Which ones should I take a look at? Would videos 4 and 10 be enough to start squatting (both about setup)?

Lones Green
01-08-2009, 03:16 AM
;2068532']Which ones should I take a look at? Would videos 4 and 10 be enough to start squatting (both about setup)?

They are ALL full of great info.

[R_H]
01-08-2009, 03:23 AM
They are ALL full of great info.

Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely take a look at all of them. I'd like to start squatting this afternoon, but before then, which ones should I look at (I don't have time to look at all of them).

Thanks.

Lones Green
01-08-2009, 03:23 AM
;2068536']Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely take a look at all of them. I'd like to start squatting this afternoon, but before then, which ones should I look at (I don't have time to look at all of them).

Thanks.

I would say the form ones then.

[R_H]
01-08-2009, 03:37 AM
I'm currently watching the fourth video, where he talks about squat depth and stance width. I have/had knee problems, and flexibility problems with them - should I stick to a wider stance?

Lones Green
01-08-2009, 07:22 AM
;2068540']I'm currently watching the fourth video, where he talks about squat depth and stance width. I have/had knee problems, and flexibility problems with them - should I stick to a wider stance?

Box squats are great for bad knees.

Jorge Sanchez
01-08-2009, 07:39 AM
Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength (book), in conjunction with Sensei's squatRx videos have done more to help me squat than anything.

[R_H]
01-08-2009, 12:54 PM
Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength (book), in conjunction with Sensei's squatRx videos have done more to help me squat than anything.

Do you have any idea if I could find Starting Strength in Chapters/Indigo/Coles? If so, I could get a friend in Canada to send it. I doubt it's sold in any bookstores here.

Thanks.

RHarris
01-08-2009, 02:48 PM
;2068540']I'm currently watching the fourth video, where he talks about squat depth and stance width. I have/had knee problems, and flexibility problems with them - should I stick to a wider stance?

More important than squat stance I'd say you MUST concentrate on sitting back when you squat as opposed to letting you knees drift out over your toes. This will do much to protect the knees.
Also, with a history of knee problems, make sure you are properly developing and stretching your quads.

Best.
Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

ZenMonkey
01-08-2009, 08:05 PM
From our own site:

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=275

Jorge Sanchez
01-09-2009, 07:03 AM
;2068758']Do you have any idea if I could find Starting Strength in Chapters/Indigo/Coles? If so, I could get a friend in Canada to send it. I doubt it's sold in any bookstores here.

Thanks.

I'm in Canada and I had to order it through Amazon - they didn't have it at Chapters last time I checked. I'm pretty sure Amazon will ship internationally

[R_H]
01-09-2009, 09:12 AM
Oops, forgot to say how it went yesterday.

Warmed up with back extensions, dips, chin-ups, situps. Would have been useful to do air squats though, but I'll do them from now on.

I then went over to the squat cage, a started squatting with 88lb. Did a set of 5, that went fairly well (bar wasn't too comfortable though), so I decided to increase the weigh. I then did another set of 5 with 132lb. The bar was more comfortable during that set, I think I had it too high during the first set. I decided to increase the weight again, to 154lb. I was definitely able to feel the difference between 154 and 132. I saw that my left knee was drifting a bit inwards compared to my right, but after the 2nd or 3rd rep, it wasn't happening anymore. I then did a second set of 154lb. That kick my ass, for some reason I forgot to keep my back tight, and when I came up out of the squat, my upper body wasn't as upright as possible. I think I'll go down to 143 or 132lb again to try and tidy up my form.

I'll definitely take a look at the rest of Sensei's videos before next Tuesday (the next time I'll be at the gym).


More important than squat stance I'd say you MUST concentrate on sitting back when you squat as opposed to letting you knees drift out over your toes. This will do much to protect the knees.
Also, with a history of knee problems, make sure you are properly developing and stretching your quads.

Best.
Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

By knees drifting out over the toes, do you mean side to side (knees buckled)or out past the side of the foot? I'll start adding quad stretchs to my program.

Thanks for your advice Mr. Harris.



From our own site:

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=275

Silly me, should have thought to also look in the articles here. Thanks ZenMonkey.


I'm in Canada and I had to order it through Amazon - they didn't have it at Chapters last time I checked. I'm pretty sure Amazon will ship internationally

I looked on Amazon shortly before the Christmas holidays, and I'm pretty sure they didn't have it for sale.

Couldn't find it now either on Amazon, not even on Amazon.ca

Thanks for the replies, sorry for the long post. Have a nice weekend.

Jorge Sanchez
01-09-2009, 09:29 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231518567&sr=8-1

[R_H]
01-09-2009, 10:01 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231518567&sr=8-1

Ah, thanks.

RHarris
01-09-2009, 11:31 AM
I was speaking knee position relative to the toes... Front-to-back wise. The main point being that you want your shins as perpendicular to the floor as possible. Always sit back with the weight.. and not bend over with it. If you are a narrower stance squatter, like myself, this often is takes a lot more concentration than for a wider stance squatter.

You're on the right track though by trying to perfect your form at the lower reps. Build the form and the strength will come along.

Best,
Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

[R_H]
01-09-2009, 11:44 AM
I was speaking knee position relative to the toes... Front-to-back wise. The main point being that you want your shins as perpendicular to the floor as possible. Always sit back with the weight.. and not bend over with it. If you are a narrower stance squatter, like myself, this often is takes a lot more concentration than for a wider stance squatter.

You're on the right track though by trying to perfect your form at the lower reps. Build the form and the strength will come along.

Best,
Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

How narrow is your stance? I honestly went wide because that's what I saw in Sensei's and Rippetoe's videos, but it also felt really comfortable to me.

xcornontherobx
01-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Yeah I just went wider today (Almost toe to rack) and it felt wayyyy better.

mosley1990
01-09-2009, 11:20 PM
i need to watch the squatrx videos...i suck terribly at squatting...i DL 180+ lbs more than i squat. my squat is nearly the same as my bench. 315 squat...275x4 raw bench....too close...

Szust
01-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Yeah I just went wider today (Almost toe to rack) and it felt wayyyy better.

Make sure not to go too wide if you're not wearing a singlet or a suit or something. You could hurt your hips, or so I've heard.

Fuzzy
01-10-2009, 12:26 AM
More important than squat stance I'd say you MUST concentrate on sitting back when you squat as opposed to letting you knees drift out over your toes. This will do much to protect the knees.
Also, with a history of knee problems, make sure you are properly developing and stretching your quads.

Best.
Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV

This is completely false.

Once more, it is in no way shape or form bad for the knees for them to travel over the toes. How anyone came up with such stupidity is beyond me.

This is how I squat, shoulder width stance, upright torso, high bar position, knees go over the toes. The only fault with these squats is my ass raise coming out of the whole, a problem which has sine been completely fixed. Otherwise it's a textbook Olympic atg squat, and makes alot more sense and feels far more natural than doing the splits.

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Reko
01-10-2009, 12:30 AM
This is completely false.

Once more, it is in no way shape or form bad for the knees for them to travel over the toes. How anyone came up with such stupidity is beyond me.

MY only guess are the people at general commercial gyms who basically bend at the knees, come up on their toes, lift their heels up etc and do the proverbial quarter squat.
Hopefully that is the assumption rather than PL vs OLY being right vs wrong.

Fuzzy
01-10-2009, 12:39 AM
MY only guess are the people at general commercial gyms who basically bend at the knees, come up on their toes, lift their heels up etc and do the proverbial quarter squat.
Hopefully that is the assumption rather than PL vs OLY being right vs wrong.

Is has nothing to do with PL versus OLY. It has to do with a silly unfounded claim that keeping the knees back is a safer way to squat. The PL squat is not a safer way to squat, it is a DIFFERENT way to squat, and usually exclusivley used by guys competing in powerlifting. The powerlifting squat is a highly specialised movement. My only angst is the repeated silly claim that the knees somehow magically crossing a line will result in instant death.

Squatting up and down, remaining on and drviing through the heels will guarentee no problems.

Any problems that do occur are a result of a complete lack of recovery and soft tissue work, which is easily fixed with a 25 dollar foram roller and a hard small ball.

Reko
01-10-2009, 12:48 AM
Is has nothing to do with PL versus OLY. It has to do with a silly unfounded claim that keeping the knees back is a safer way to squat. The PL squat is not a safer way to squat, it is a DIFFERENT way to squat, and usually exclusivley used by guys competing in powerlifting.

Thats what i meant, I think people's first thought when it comes to squatting is what they see in the commercial gyms with the people who have no idea how to do either.

Maybe the low bar comment in his OP tipped people towards the hips back/PL style I dont know

Ben Moore
01-10-2009, 12:53 AM
Is has nothing to do with PL versus OLY. It has to do with a silly unfounded claim that keeping the knees back is a safer way to squat. The PL squat is not a safer way to squat, it is a DIFFERENT way to squat, and usually exclusivley used by guys competing in powerlifting. The powerlifting squat is a highly specialised movement. My only angst is the repeated silly claim that the knees somehow magically crossing a line will result in instant death.

Squatting up and down, remaining on and drviing through the heels will guarentee no problems.

Any problems that do occur are a result of a complete lack of recovery and soft tissue work, which is easily fixed with a 25 dollar foram roller and a hard small ball.
I agree with everything but this.

Mosnar
01-10-2009, 01:59 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that squats will not screw up your knees. In fact, they healed mine. 8 knee dislocations when I was younger, but not the slightest sign of instability now that I am squatting.

[R_H]
01-10-2009, 02:17 AM
Thats what i meant, I think people's first thought when it comes to squatting is what they see in the commercial gyms with the people who have no idea how to do either.

Maybe the low bar comment in his OP tipped people towards the hips back/PL style I dont know

What's the difference between the PL and the OLY squat?

Fuzzy
01-10-2009, 07:12 AM
;2069894']What's the difference between the PL and the OLY squat?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm

A general difference.

An Oly squat is done to full depth with an upright torso and the knees moving forward over the toes. You do not worry about how far over as it is inconsequential, you squat up and down. You break with the hips and the knees evenly. Usually a high bar position is used to help facilitate the upright torso.

A PL squat is usually taken with a wider stance, involves sitting backwards and having a larger torso lean forward. The knees are kept from traveling forward and the shins are kept as close to vertical as much as possible.

I am personally an Oly lifter, and are therefore far more biased towards our style of squats. This is purely my opinion. Both are fine to do, but it is first important to establish what goals you are aiming to. Do you want over all strength, to compete in PL, a mix of the two? Bigger legs? A better power transfer?

I squat to improve my snatch and clean and jerk, both which require an upright torso and the smaller the angle between the floor and shins the better, this also means the knees are as far forward as possible. This has also given me far more leg development than PL squats ever did.

I strongly disagree with 'but the Oly squat doesn't work the posterior chain' IT'S A ****ING SQUAT PEOPLE, IT WORKS THE LEGS. When I want to work the back I do cleans, snatches and deadlifts.

Mad Max
01-10-2009, 07:27 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm

A general difference.

An Oly squat is done to full depth with an upright torso and the knees moving forward over the toes. You do not worry about how far over as it is inconsequential, you squat up and down. You break with the hips and the knees evenly. Usually a high bar position is used to help facilitate the upright torso.

A PL squat is usually taken with a wider stance, involves sitting backwards and having a larger torso lean forward. The knees are kept from traveling forward and the shins are kept as close to vertical as much as possible.

I am personally an Oly lifter, and are therefore far more biased towards our style of squats. This is purely my opinion. Both are fine to do, but it is first important to establish what goals you are aiming to. Do you want over all strength, to compete in PL, a mix of the two? Bigger legs? A better power transfer?

I squat to improve my snatch and clean and jerk, both which require an upright torso and the smaller the angle between the floor and shins the better, this also means the knees are as far forward as possible. This has also given me far more leg development than PL squats ever did.

I strongly disagree with 'but the Oly squat doesn't work the posterior chain' IT'S A ****ING SQUAT PEOPLE, IT WORKS THE LEGS. When I want to work the back I do cleans, snatches and deadlifts.

For what it's worth I used to squat Oly style (with the shoes and all) up until a couple of months ago when I developed plantar fasciitis and subsequent knee pain. It was the fasciitis and the change in my gait, as opposed to the squatting, that caused the knee pain, but I did find I couldn't squat oly style without knee pain. Since then I have had to change my squat style to work around the problem. So in my experience I would say that a PL style squat is perhaps safer on the knees. Having said that I would very much like to get back into oly squatting sometime soon, and I think that a healthy individual should be able to squat oly style provided they do stretching, dynamic warm ups, foam rollig etc.

coldfire
01-10-2009, 07:49 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm

A general difference.

An Oly squat is done to full depth with an upright torso and the knees moving forward over the toes. You do not worry about how far over as it is inconsequential, you squat up and down. You break with the hips and the knees evenly. Usually a high bar position is used to help facilitate the upright torso.

A PL squat is usually taken with a wider stance, involves sitting backwards and having a larger torso lean forward. The knees are kept from traveling forward and the shins are kept as close to vertical as much as possible.

I am personally an Oly lifter, and are therefore far more biased towards our style of squats. This is purely my opinion. Both are fine to do, but it is first important to establish what goals you are aiming to. Do you want over all strength, to compete in PL, a mix of the two? Bigger legs? A better power transfer?

I squat to improve my snatch and clean and jerk, both which require an upright torso and the smaller the angle between the floor and shins the better, this also means the knees are as far forward as possible. This has also given me far more leg development than PL squats ever did.

I strongly disagree with 'but the Oly squat doesn't work the posterior chain' IT'S A ****ING SQUAT PEOPLE, IT WORKS THE LEGS. When I want to work the back I do cleans, snatches and deadlifts.

You front squat to work the legs and you squat to make other things stronger too.

[R_H]
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm

A general difference.

An Oly squat is done to full depth with an upright torso and the knees moving forward over the toes. You do not worry about how far over as it is inconsequential, you squat up and down. You break with the hips and the knees evenly. Usually a high bar position is used to help facilitate the upright torso.

A PL squat is usually taken with a wider stance, involves sitting backwards and having a larger torso lean forward. The knees are kept from traveling forward and the shins are kept as close to vertical as much as possible.

I am personally an Oly lifter, and are therefore far more biased towards our style of squats. This is purely my opinion. Both are fine to do, but it is first important to establish what goals you are aiming to. Do you want over all strength, to compete in PL, a mix of the two? Bigger legs? A better power transfer?

I squat to improve my snatch and clean and jerk, both which require an upright torso and the smaller the angle between the floor and shins the better, this also means the knees are as far forward as possible. This has also given me far more leg development than PL squats ever did.

I strongly disagree with 'but the Oly squat doesn't work the posterior chain' IT'S A ****ING SQUAT PEOPLE, IT WORKS THE LEGS. When I want to work the back I do cleans, snatches and deadlifts.

My goal is to improve my standing long jump and also to increase overall strength.

Fuzzy
01-10-2009, 05:09 PM
;2069938']My goal is to improve my standing long jump and also to increase overall strength.

Then I would say take the Olympic route,'but oh no firas, oly squats don't work the hamstrings enough to produce a good jump!'

Well, that 'logic' certainly doesn't explain why the most powerful jumpers in the world do Oly lifts and squat Oly style.

Your choice.

BFGUITAR
01-10-2009, 05:36 PM
I agree with everything but this.

Is there a reason for this?
PL squatting is often done in a suit which obviously complicates squatting mechanics. It seems there is a lot more to know in PL squatting considering raw and equipped are two different worlds on its own.

Notorious
01-10-2009, 06:32 PM
Well, that 'logic' certainly doesn't explain why the most powerful jumpers in the world do Oly lifts and squat Oly style.

To be fair, they probably have very good vertical jumps because they do Oly lifts, not Oly squats.

coldfire
01-11-2009, 02:49 AM
To be fair, they probably have very good vertical jumps because they do Oly lifts, not Oly squats.

And because they are are genetically gifted and have a very efficient CNS. Otherwise they wouldn't be olympic lifters.

You can have a 600 squat and still have a low vertical jump.

[R_H]
01-11-2009, 08:17 AM
I was stretching and doing bodyweight squats this morning. And while doing BW squats, I noticed that at the ATG part of a squat, the outside edge of my feet (especially my left foot) tend to lift up, causing my knee(s) to shift inwards. How do I correct this?

Thanks

Fuzzy
01-11-2009, 10:15 AM
;2070438']I was stretching and doing bodyweight squats this morning. And while doing BW squats, I noticed that at the ATG part of a squat, the outside edge of my feet (especially my left foot) tend to lift up, causing my knee(s) to shift inwards. How do I correct this?

Thanks

Several options. Heeled shoes such as a work boot or a proper Olympic weightlifting shoe.

Also, whilst keeping your foot flat on the grand place a 45 on your thigh and use it to push the knees forward over the toe, you should feel a stretch on the back of your ankle.

[R_H]
01-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Several options. Heeled shoes such as a work boot or a proper Olympic weightlifting shoe.

Also, whilst keeping your foot flat on the grand place a 45 on your thigh and use it to push the knees forward over the toe, you should feel a stretch on the back of your ankle.

OK, I'll try that in my warm-up on Tuesday. Will lunges (knee over foot) also help stretch the ankles?