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fpr
01-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Gradually increasing weight on my squats each week, this week did 245 4 sets of 5 reps.

Not sure if this is due to fatigue or due to the weight but as I'm starting to come out of the hole, I am really leaning forward and rounding my lower back slightly by doing so, opposed to going straight down and up.

I find it easier to use the front part -- switching the weight line more anterior -- of my legs then driving with my heels (again, this may only be as I start to get fatigued, I haven't quite narrowed it down yet)... does this mean anything? Weak hamstrings perhaps?

Also, I find that the weight is hyperextending my wrists, my elbows are perpendicular with the floor when I squat, should I switch the positioning?

Thanks.

mikesbench
01-17-2009, 08:51 PM
I would recommend reading some of the westside articles on squat form and watching some videos of lifters with good squats. After this it's still important to realize that not everyone squats the same due to varying body types but you should pick up on many similarities accross most squatters, and hopefully try to find video of guys with a similar build to you and check how their technique compares to yours.

Once you have a good idea of what you feel your squat should look like you may need to work on flexibility and strengthening key muscle groups to be able to squat with proper technique for you. In general I would say you probably need to work on upper body flexibility, hamstring and hip flexibility and hamstring and hip strength.

Any chance you have some video of your squat? It's tough to really pick apart what's going on without seeing it, but the few things I mentioned I think would help from what it sounds like.

Hope this helps. Good luck building your squat.

MVP
01-17-2009, 09:03 PM
Gradually increasing weight on my squats each week, this week did 245 4 sets of 5 reps.

Not sure if this is due to fatigue or due to the weight but as I'm starting to come out of the hole, I am really leaning forward and rounding my lower back slightly by doing so, opposed to going straight down and up.

I find it easier to use the front part -- switching the weight line more anterior -- of my legs then driving with my heels (again, this may only be as I start to get fatigued, I haven't quite narrowed it down yet)... does this mean anything? Weak hamstrings perhaps?

Also, I find that the weight is hyperextending my wrists, my elbows are perpendicular with the floor when I squat, should I switch the positioning?

Thanks.

Squatting should come from the hips. The first thing that should come up is your butt, think if someone placing their hand on your lower back and pushing up from it. Do not push up from your feet.

fpr
01-17-2009, 09:13 PM
ok -- I'll get a vid up

Travis Bell
01-17-2009, 09:18 PM
Yes squatting should come from your hips, but it should not cause your butt to come up, throwing you forward.

Squatting should also come from a strong lower back to keep you comming up, not forward

RevTodd
01-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Squatting should come from the hips.

Totally agree.


The first thing that should come up is your butt,

Disagree... Here's why.

When you execute a lift there are at least two components, the mental and physical aspects of the lift. Accordingly, the physical performance is invariably determined by the mental process. If you think your ascent should start by firing the quads, or the glutes, or the hips, etc, you will most likely experience the very difficulty you are having, which is folding over out of the hole. This is due in part to the logical order in your mind of how the lift should proceed, namely, lower body first. So hips come up and shoulders and head lag behind. This = sandwich. You think it, your body does it.

When you come out of the hole your first thought and first action should be head up and traps drive up and back into the bar. The hips, glutes, hams, quads, et al will follow. Drive with your heels, keep your knees out, toes pointed out and your lower legs relatively vertical.

These kinds of technique issues are very important to your squat. I used to do exactly what you're doing and my squat languished around 350 or so for years. Once I got serious about technique and re-learning how to squat correctly my squat took off. I'm no monster squatter, but at 242 and 42 years old I hit around 600 in a belt and wraps, and last week doubled 675 in just a loose pair of briefs. I haven't done much in full gear, but I'd guess I'm probably in the 800+ range. Not terrible. I also trained a guy who weighed 300+ and couldn't squat more than about 365. He was having similar issues as you. After 3 sessions helping him with technique he did an easy 500 unequipped.

That said, I concur with what others have said about posterior chain strength and flexibility. Sounds like you need to concentrate your work there. You are probably losing your arch out of the hole also because of these posterior chain issues as well as the technique issues I already mentioned.

If you develop a squat technique that causes you to pitch forward on the balls of your feet and your knees are moving forward over your toes you are not only limiting the weight you will be able to squat in the future, you might also cause yourself serious injury.

My 2 cents.

Ben Moore
01-18-2009, 10:44 AM
Totally agree.



Disagree... Here's why.

When you execute a lift there are at least two components, the mental and physical aspects of the lift. Accordingly, the physical performance is invariably determined by the mental process. If you think your ascent should start by firing the quads, or the glutes, or the hips, etc, you will most likely experience the very difficulty you are having, which is folding over out of the hole. This is due in part to the logical order in your mind of how the lift should proceed, namely, lower body first. So hips come up and shoulders and head lag behind. This = sandwich. You think it, your body does it.

When you come out of the hole your first thought and first action should be head up and traps drive up and back into the bar. The hips, glutes, hams, quads, et al will follow. Drive with your heels, keep your knees out, toes pointed out and your lower legs relatively vertical.

These kinds of technique issues are very important to your squat. I used to do exactly what you're doing and my squat languished around 350 or so for years. Once I got serious about technique and re-learning how to squat correctly my squat took off. I'm no monster squatter, but at 242 and 42 years old I hit around 600 in a belt and wraps, and last week doubled 675 in just a loose pair of briefs. I haven't done much in full gear, but I'd guess I'm probably in the 800+ range. Not terrible. I also trained a guy who weighed 300+ and couldn't squat more than about 365. He was having similar issues as you. After 3 sessions helping him with technique he did an easy 500 unequipped.

That said, I concur with what others have said about posterior chain strength and flexibility. Sounds like you need to concentrate your work there. You are probably losing your arch out of the hole also because of these posterior chain issues as well as the technique issues I already mentioned.

If you develop a squat technique that causes you to pitch forward on the balls of your feet and your knees are moving forward over your toes you are not only limiting the weight you will be able to squat in the future, you might also cause yourself serious injury.

My 2 cents.
Very good info.

hellagrant
01-18-2009, 11:09 AM
Totally agree.



Disagree... Here's why.

When you execute a lift there are at least two components, the mental and physical aspects of the lift. Accordingly, the physical performance is invariably determined by the mental process. If you think your ascent should start by firing the quads, or the glutes, or the hips, etc, you will most likely experience the very difficulty you are having, which is folding over out of the hole. This is due in part to the logical order in your mind of how the lift should proceed, namely, lower body first. So hips come up and shoulders and head lag behind. This = sandwich. You think it, your body does it.

When you come out of the hole your first thought and first action should be head up and traps drive up and back into the bar. The hips, glutes, hams, quads, et al will follow. Drive with your heels, keep your knees out, toes pointed out and your lower legs relatively vertical.

These kinds of technique issues are very important to your squat. I used to do exactly what you're doing and my squat languished around 350 or so for years. Once I got serious about technique and re-learning how to squat correctly my squat took off. I'm no monster squatter, but at 242 and 42 years old I hit around 600 in a belt and wraps, and last week doubled 675 in just a loose pair of briefs. I haven't done much in full gear, but I'd guess I'm probably in the 800+ range. Not terrible. I also trained a guy who weighed 300+ and couldn't squat more than about 365. He was having similar issues as you. After 3 sessions helping him with technique he did an easy 500 unequipped.

That said, I concur with what others have said about posterior chain strength and flexibility. Sounds like you need to concentrate your work there. You are probably losing your arch out of the hole also because of these posterior chain issues as well as the technique issues I already mentioned.

If you develop a squat technique that causes you to pitch forward on the balls of your feet and your knees are moving forward over your toes you are not only limiting the weight you will be able to squat in the future, you might also cause yourself serious injury.

My 2 cents.

Wow, where did this guy come from? Great reply!

hellagrant
01-18-2009, 11:10 AM
Not sure if this is due to fatigue or due to the weight but as I'm starting to come out of the hole, I am really leaning forward and rounding my lower back slightly by doing so, opposed to going straight down and up.


What type of shoes are you wearing? I use to wear basketball shoes which contributed to my body leaning forward during squats. Now I go barefoot, much safer.

fpr
01-18-2009, 11:20 AM
What type of shoes are you wearing? I use to wear basketball shoes which contributed to my body leaning forward during squats. Now I go barefoot, much safer.

chucks