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View Full Version : Why do carbs make you gain fat?



ThomasG
01-18-2009, 07:35 PM
I have a basic understanding of carbs. I know that we need them for energy, glycogen. However, why do they promote fat gain? People on low carb diets who workout isnt that very stressful and bad for the muscles?

Anyways any info and link would be appreciated.

Also If someone could explain the difference between complex and simple carbs would be great as well.

Thanks.

king8329
01-18-2009, 10:11 PM
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch152/ch152b.html

not really sure how to post links but heres one that will hopefully help

king8329
01-18-2009, 10:12 PM
ah, it worked...lol hope that its useful. By the way, any excess calories (carbs, prot, fats) that are not used for energy or to build muscle can be stored as fat in the body

Puddle_Pirate
01-19-2009, 06:43 AM
well, carbs don't make you fat....but when there is an excess, the body will burn those carbs instead of the fat it would ordinarily be burning. This is why if you're cutting, you should stray from a lot of carbs at night, bc then when you're sleeping your body will be burning through the carbs at a higher % than fat. (But anyone correct me if other ideas are present.)

I have read though - a good book is by Chris Carmichael's Food for Fitness - that the body actually rarely stores even excess carbs as fat....fat burning is just slowed...which eventually accumulates.

kevowamo
01-19-2009, 12:08 PM
blood sugar/glucose levels is your answer

supersets
01-19-2009, 05:27 PM
blood sugar/glucose levels is your answer

Good answer, I think more thoroughly though its that they cause an insulin release, that signals your body to stop burning fat and start storing it.

Torrok
01-19-2009, 05:58 PM
lol they dont. that is if you know what you're doing

ThomasG
11-15-2010, 08:11 AM
haha looking back at my old threads and loling at myself. It's crazy how much more knowledge in the are of nutrition I have and once you understand it how simple it really is.

manowar669
11-15-2010, 05:35 PM
Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.

RichMcGuire
11-15-2010, 06:50 PM
Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.

Protein rich foods have a similar insulin index as carbohydrate rich foods. Beef actually has a higher value than white-pasta. And fat rich foods with refined carbs with them are the same way.

At the end of the day though, thermodynamics is what matters. If you were most concerned about body fat gain while in a surplus of Calories, you'd pay most attention to dietary fat because of the efficacy of it being stored.

Behemoth
11-16-2010, 07:32 PM
I find the more I learn the more amazed I am at just how complex and not understood it really is

Allen Cress
11-16-2010, 07:49 PM
It all depends on the individual and their metabolism, insulin sensitivity, leptin sensitivity, etc.... as to what causes fat storage. I have clients that are on high carb low fat, moderate carb moderate fat, etc.... There is never a black and white answer when it comes to what causes fat storgae as everyone is different.

Make no mistake carbs are needed even when leaning out, just properly portioned depending on the person.

RichMcGuire
11-17-2010, 11:00 PM
In an energy surplus, fat is the most efficient macro nutrient for being stored as fat.

Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat. This is a last resort of the body anyways. De novo lipogensis converting excess carbohydrate into body fat is relatively small.

So again, at the end of the day, the amount of excess Calories is going to matter the most.. not carbohydrates, fat, combining different macro nutrients, avoiding certain foods, or whatever else you wanna include.

Daniel Roberts
11-18-2010, 03:28 AM
I find the more I learn the more amazed I am at just how complex and not understood it really is

Yup, you go full circle - ignorant to overwhelmed to knowing you're ignorant!

Leave the complicated stuff to your body, it'll figure it out without you (there's only so much you can do to affect change anyway), all you need is the simple stuff done consistently well.

Behemoth
11-18-2010, 04:42 AM
all you need is the simple stuff done consistently well

Ahh... thats like poetry its so beautiful

Holto
11-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Ahh... thats like poetry its so beautiful

I'll second that.

Invain
11-19-2010, 04:58 PM
Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.

Everything you eat causes an insulin response. Obviously the response varies, but still. Also, some proteins, such as whey, have very high GI ratings, even higher than some simple carbs.

Invain
11-19-2010, 05:04 PM
In an energy surplus, fat is the most efficient macro nutrient for being stored as fat.

Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat. This is a last resort of the body anyways. De novo lipogensis converting excess carbohydrate into body fat is relatively small.

So again, at the end of the day, the amount of excess Calories is going to matter the most.. not carbohydrates, fat, combining different macro nutrients, avoiding certain foods, or whatever else you wanna include.

Except for the fact that excess glucose can very easily be stored as glycerol, which makes triglyceride synthesis that much easier.

RichMcGuire
11-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Everything you eat causes an insulin response. Obviously the response varies, but still. Also, some proteins, such as whey, have very high GI ratings, even higher than some simple carbs.

Yea, because Gl = Insulin index, right? You're using the GI terms with the Insulin Index terms interchangeably, which is non sense. The GI has been shown not to always correlate with the Insulin index. Further more, the protein rich foods actually do have a lower GI. The Insulin index of pure protein, however, is higher than some carbohydrate rankings despite the higher GI of the carbohydrates.





Except for the fact that excess glucose can very easily be stored as glycerol, which makes triglyceride synthesis that much easier.

What a blanket statement. It all depends. Under hypercaloric conditions, the consumption of high carbohydrate meals is followed by a matching degree of carbohydrate oxidation. Fat has been shown to be the most efficient at being stored as body fat. Fat storage is generally preferred under hypercaloric conditions with high fat meals.

Jequier E, Tappy L. Regulation of body weight in humans. Physiol Rec 1999;79(2):451-80

I'll agree that ingesting a lot of carbohydrates can suppress fat oxidation, but it's only half of the story.

"Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. Theoretically, the body can convert carbohydrates to triglyceride (a process called de novo lipogenesis) but most studies indicate that this contributes only minimally to total fat storage under most normal dietary conditions." Lyle McDonald "The Stubborn Fat Solution."

There are some older studies in the 1980's that suggest DNL could be more significant but most recent research points out that it is not.

Therefore, I'll restate what I said earlier. Despite all the science mumbo-jumpo, total Calories matter most at the end of the day.

Invain
11-21-2010, 01:18 PM
Yea, because Gl = Insulin index, right? You're using the GI terms with the Insulin Index terms interchangeably, which is non sense. The GI has been shown not to always correlate with the Insulin index. Further more, the protein rich foods actually do have a lower GI. The Insulin index of pure protein, however, is higher than some carbohydrate rankings despite the higher GI of the carbohydrates.




Yeah that was my mistake, I meant Insulin response when I typed GI, wasn't thinking. My point was amino acids can be more insulinogenic than carbs.

Invain
11-21-2010, 01:27 PM
What a blanket statement. It all depends. Under hypercaloric conditions, the consumption of high carbohydrate meals is followed by a matching degree of carbohydrate oxidation. Fat has been shown to be the most efficient at being stored as body fat. Fat storage is generally preferred under hypercaloric conditions with high fat meals.

Jequier E, Tappy L. Regulation of body weight in humans. Physiol Rec 1999;79(2):451-80

I'll agree that ingesting a lot of carbohydrates can suppress fat oxidation, but it's only half of the story.

"Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. Theoretically, the body can convert carbohydrates to triglyceride (a process called de novo lipogenesis) but most studies indicate that this contributes only minimally to total fat storage under most normal dietary conditions." Lyle McDonald "The Stubborn Fat Solution."

There are some older studies in the 1980's that suggest DNL could be more significant but most recent research points out that it is not.

Therefore, I'll restate what I said earlier. Despite all the science mumbo-jumpo, total Calories matter most at the end of the day.

Exactly what about my post was a blanket statement? "Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat." I don't believe this to be true. Lipogenesis is not the same thing as trigylceride synthesis.

RichMcGuire
11-22-2010, 01:30 AM
Exactly what about my post was a blanket statement? "Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat." I don't believe this to be true. Lipogenesis is not the same thing as trigylceride synthesis.

What? Lipogenesis means making fat cells (triglycerides) from glycerol and 3 free fatty acids. So literally, "lipo" (fat) "genesis" (making). When there is an absence of carbohydrates, the body can convert Pyruvate, lactate and different amino acids into glucose for the fat cell to absorb, convert to glycerol, and bind to the fatty acids. Bam, you have TG's which makes up the majority of stored fat. So I'm saying pointing the finger at carbohydrates alone is a blanket statement. DNL doesnt show significant fat storage.

Excess Calories in general is the biggest culprit..but fat has the best storage capabilities.

Invain
11-22-2010, 06:51 AM
Lipogenesis isn't defined in any of my Biochemistry books, but, according to Wiki: Lipogenesis is the process by which acetyl-CoA is converted to fats (aka fatty acid synthesis). Says nothing about creating fat cells. There's a big difference between a fat 'cell' and a fat 'molecule'. I'm curious where you're getting your information from.

You mention gluconeogenesis, which is not energetically favorable. This is the reason why I said excess carbs can be stored as glycerol in adipose tissue, much like glycogen in muscle cells.

I also have never said carbohydrates alone are the reason people gain fat. I do believe they play a bigger role than the other two macro nutrients however.

RichMcGuire
11-22-2010, 01:41 PM
I'll add more when I have time tonight but I never said fat cells are created via hyperplasia. I said tg's are created. Big difference.

Invain
11-22-2010, 03:48 PM
"Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. "




What? Lipogenesis means making fat cells (triglycerides) from glycerol and 3 free fatty acids.



Are these typos then?

RichMcGuire
11-22-2010, 04:01 PM
Are these typos then?

yea, they were. thx for catching that. I'll add more later, as I have company over :D

JSully
11-23-2010, 09:08 AM
great argument in here fellas..

IMO, carbs don't make you fat, fat doesn't make you fat.. it's the combination when in a caloric surplus. One of Lyle's books even touch on this briefly. If you are in a calorie excess and taking in more carbohydrates than needed, all dietary fat will be stored....

The real culprit is a high carbohydrate and high fat diet made up of refined and processed foods since near birth that just destroys our insulin sensitivity. Our cells get desensitized to the insulin and therefore the nutrients end up getting stored rather than burned for fuel. Once you increase your insulin sensitivity it gets much easier to drop and nutrient partitioning is much more pronounced at that point.

I haven't read a nutrition book in ages, so I would look like a jackass if I tried using big words.. haha..

RichMcGuire
11-23-2010, 09:11 PM
great argument in here fellas..

IMO, carbs don't make you fat, fat doesn't make you fat.. it's the combination when in a caloric surplus. One of Lyle's books even touch on this briefly. If you are in a calorie excess and taking in more carbohydrates than needed, all dietary fat will be stored....

The real culprit is a high carbohydrate and high fat diet made up of refined and processed foods since near birth that just destroys our insulin sensitivity. Our cells get desensitized to the insulin and therefore the nutrients end up getting stored rather than burned for fuel. Once you increase your insulin sensitivity it gets much easier to drop and nutrient partitioning is much more pronounced at that point.

I haven't read a nutrition book in ages, so I would look like a jackass if I tried using big words.. haha..

rofl. It's all good man. You bring up some good points. Sort of like a full circle to this.



Lipogenesis isn't defined in any of my Biochemistry books, but, according to Wiki: Lipogenesis is the process by which acetyl-CoA is converted to fats (aka fatty acid synthesis). Says nothing about creating fat cells. There's a big difference between a fat 'cell' and a fat 'molecule'. I'm curious where you're getting your information from.

You mention gluconeogenesis, which is not energetically favorable. This is the reason why I said excess carbs can be stored as glycerol in adipose tissue, much like glycogen in muscle cells.

I also have never said carbohydrates alone are the reason people gain fat. I do believe they play a bigger role than the other two macro nutrients however.

Well, I've been drinking.. a lot.. so I'll try to keep this shortish. Anyways, yea, lipogenesis is simply the creation of fat, for a better word. Typically, a fat cell has mostly TG's. Making fat cells through hyperplasia usually happens with really, really fat people. For the most part, fat gain is due to hypertrophy of existing fat cells.

This is my only issue with whats been said. Dietary fat has a bigger potential to be stored as fat. This is a fact and really can't be argued. At the end of the day, excess Calories is what matters, but in a surplus, fat always wins. I mean just think about it.. think about what carbohydrates have to go through in order to help be stored as fat. Then compare it to actual dietary fat. Heres an excerpt for you.

"After consumption, dietary fat is broken down repackaged into something called a chylomicron, absorbed into the lymphatic system, and appears in the bloodstream about 3 hours after you eat. While a certain percentage of ingested dietary fat will be used for energy or go to the liver or skeletal muscle for either storage or burning, some proportion will always make it to the fat cells where it can potentially be stored. This is unavoidaable" --Lyle McDonald

So, let me you ask you this.. how exactly does excess carbohydrate trump excess fat is storage capabilities? And explain the study I linked that demonstrated..

"After 8 control days of isocaloric energy balance, subjects on the 9th day were given an additional 1000 kcal in order to create a hypercaloric energy balance. As a result, carbohydrate and protein balance were achieved (oxidation equaled intake) while fat storage was preferential over fat oxidation."

Remember, a high carb diet also has a high carbohydrate oxidation..(not storage) While this DOES suppress fat oxidation, it does not contribute to a large fat gain. So, I'll simply say, there are advantages to lower carb diets if fat loss is your goal.. but I think we are talking about hypercaloric conditions where body masses increases.

p.s

This is really splitting hairs, because thermodynamics matters most. But I'll gladly split these hairs because everyone learns from it. I know I learn more and more when challenged and am forced to look up facts over matters.

af92
11-28-2010, 04:11 PM
rofl. It's all good man. You bring up some good points. Sort of like a full circle to this.




Well, I've been drinking.. a lot.. so I'll try to keep this shortish. Anyways, yea, lipogenesis is simply the creation of fat, for a better word. Typically, a fat cell has mostly TG's. Making fat cells through hyperplasia usually happens with really, really fat people. For the most part, fat gain is due to hypertrophy of existing fat cells.

This is my only issue with whats been said. Dietary fat has a bigger potential to be stored as fat. This is a fact and really can't be argued. At the end of the day, excess Calories is what matters, but in a surplus, fat always wins. I mean just think about it.. think about what carbohydrates have to go through in order to help be stored as fat. Then compare it to actual dietary fat. Heres an excerpt for you.

"After consumption, dietary fat is broken down repackaged into something called a chylomicron, absorbed into the lymphatic system, and appears in the bloodstream about 3 hours after you eat. While a certain percentage of ingested dietary fat will be used for energy or go to the liver or skeletal muscle for either storage or burning, some proportion will always make it to the fat cells where it can potentially be stored. This is unavoidaable" --Lyle McDonald

So, let me you ask you this.. how exactly does excess carbohydrate trump excess fat is storage capabilities? And explain the study I linked that demonstrated..

"After 8 control days of isocaloric energy balance, subjects on the 9th day were given an additional 1000 kcal in order to create a hypercaloric energy balance. As a result, carbohydrate and protein balance were achieved (oxidation equaled intake) while fat storage was preferential over fat oxidation."

Remember, a high carb diet also has a high carbohydrate oxidation..(not storage) While this DOES suppress fat oxidation, it does not contribute to a large fat gain. So, I'll simply say, there are advantages to lower carb diets if fat loss is your goal.. but I think we are talking about hypercaloric conditions where body masses increases.

p.s

This is really splitting hairs, because thermodynamics matters most. But I'll gladly split these hairs because everyone learns from it. I know I learn more and more when challenged and am forced to look up facts over matters.

A couple of interesting books for reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033462/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/Calories-Dont-Count-herman-taller/dp/B00176DRMY

RichMcGuire
11-28-2010, 11:35 PM
A couple of interesting books for reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033462/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/Calories-Dont-Count-herman-taller/dp/B00176DRMY

Completely worthless books from what I've heard.

af92
11-28-2010, 11:49 PM
Completely worthless books from what I've heard.

Just looked interesting, nothing more. :D

Invain
12-01-2010, 06:57 PM
This is my only issue with whats been said. Dietary fat has a bigger potential to be stored as fat. This is a fact and really can't be argued. At the end of the day, excess Calories is what matters, but in a surplus, fat always wins. I mean just think about it.. think about what carbohydrates have to go through in order to help be stored as fat. Then compare it to actual dietary fat. Heres an excerpt for you.

"After consumption, dietary fat is broken down repackaged into something called a chylomicron, absorbed into the lymphatic system, and appears in the bloodstream about 3 hours after you eat. While a certain percentage of ingested dietary fat will be used for energy or go to the liver or skeletal muscle for either storage or burning, some proportion will always make it to the fat cells where it can potentially be stored. This is unavoidaable" --Lyle McDonald

So, let me you ask you this.. how exactly does excess carbohydrate trump excess fat is storage capabilities? And explain the study I linked that demonstrated..



I don't see any linked studies, but I'd be interested in reading it if you could find it and post it.

I guess I should have said I believe carbs make a bigger difference when consuming all 3 macro nutrients, not necessarily by themselves. Obviously dietary fat can be stored easier than carbohydrates can be converted. I think many people underestimate/forget about insulin however.

Time+Patience
12-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Threads like these make me think us lifters are taking things off-the-deep-end!

I'm way to simple minded to bother truly understanding all of this. I'm sort of on the side with Allen, you gotta find what fits your body best.

Also gotta agree with Rich, if you eat an excess of calories then you will store fat regardless of where it came from or what it came from. Maybe one day I'll read this thread again and it will make more sense.