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mike95763
01-21-2009, 04:34 PM
I am currently doing a seperate ME day for deadlift and squat, but I am thinking about combining them and using the other day for DE/RE and assistance work. Any advice as whether or not I should do this, and if I do what types of lifts I should do (full range squats and deads in the same day?) would be appreciated.

Chris Rodgers
01-21-2009, 04:42 PM
I do it. You are just gonna have to try it and see how your body reacts. I do my gear squatting first(usually pretty heavy) and then I do some kinda pulling(usually pretty heavy, lol). I have another day that I will do some box squats, raw pulling, sometimes heavy again. :evillaugh:

jbrin0tk
01-21-2009, 05:11 PM
I do it, too. Granted I'm not using the weights that Chris is (not yet, anyways!), but I agree with him in that it's just one of those things that you have to see how your body responds to it. It kicked my tail at first, but then I adapted and it works really well for me.

Lones Green
01-21-2009, 05:40 PM
it can be done. I do it every now and then.

teamshower
01-22-2009, 12:33 PM
so you have a "deadlift day" and then another day the same week a "squat day".. most people will alternate...using the basic westside template you'll do your ME movement, sometimes a squat variation, sometimes a deadlift variation. Then you'll do a heavy assistance exercise (gm's, rack pulls, etc.) Then another couple smaller assistance eercises... glute ham raises, pull throughs, ab work etc. The other day would be as you said RE/DE, either pull or squat for some reps if you're doing RE, or a bunch of doubles for box squats or pulls if you're doing DE, followed by more assistance work...ALL that said though, find out what works for you, everbody does stuff differently

SELK
01-23-2009, 12:23 AM
I do heavy deadlift work (not really ME, as i do more reps and stop short of failure usually). Right after DE squats. This set-up has worked well for me and some of the others I train with.

Just something like

DE squats
10sets, 2reps 60% 1rm with blue bands

Deadlift work (progressive overload cycle sometimes, or rack pulls, box pulls etc)


I usually only do 2 things, but it is a hard training session. I dont claim to have a great deadlift - but it is improving.

Eric Downey
01-23-2009, 07:15 AM
theres nothing wrong with combining the 2. its a pretty common westside practice.

smokinHawk
01-23-2009, 09:06 AM
i combine them as well otherwise i am to sore to work them on two different days.

Ben Moore
01-23-2009, 09:29 AM
The guys here at 1-0-7 combine days. We go heavy on squat and light dl one week and then opposite the next. Seems to be working well.

mike95763
01-23-2009, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the information everyone. I think I am going to switch up the way I have been doing things and combine them. Still not sure if I am going to go heavy on both every week or rotate like Ben mentioned. Right now I am thinking heavy on both but with different ranges of motion (i.e. high box squats or walkouts with full range deads and low box squats or straight squats with rack pulls or maybe GMs). If anyone is interested I will update with what I did and if it worked or not. Thanks again.

fudgeorama
02-23-2009, 05:40 PM
mike how did it work out? what exercises did you use?

ACaslow
02-23-2009, 08:16 PM
I don't like this at all, you cannot pay the necessary attention and specially energy to one lift individually when combining them I feel.

When I train at BIG IRON I work both same day. I squat first then pull, and my pull always suffers or just doesn't get the same volume. You can alternate true, but then it's half ass work for one lift one week and the other the next week. Also, I think most of the guys at our gym have found to see faster and more results when they switched to one lift a day.

But, tons of people have been successful doing together. So, it leads to whatever works best for you and what you feel comfortable the most with.

Pete22
02-23-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't like this at all, you cannot pay the necessary attention and specially energy to one lift individually when combining them I feel.

When I train at BIG IRON I work both same day. I squat first then pull, and my pull always suffers or just doesn't get the same volume. You can alternate true, but then it's half ass work for one lift one week and the other the next week. Also, I think most of the guys at our gym have found to see faster and more results when they switched to one lift a day.

I like to separate them as well. I can pull occasional speed deads after I squat, but I can't usually pull and squat heavy on the same day.

fudgeorama
02-23-2009, 08:48 PM
So do you add an extra day? or do you do ME deads on your DE day?

Mon. DE Bench
Tues. ME Squat
Thurs ME Bench
Fri. DE Squat
Sat. ME dead?

BigTallOx
02-24-2009, 06:18 AM
So do you add an extra day? or do you do ME deads on your DE day?

Mon. DE Bench
Tues. ME Squat
Thurs ME Bench
Fri. DE Squat
Sat. ME dead?

Personally, I see that leading to over training, for the average person, really quick.

Isn't the standard westside template like this ( days of the week just an example ). Maybe I'm mis-informed.

Saturday, ME bench
Monday, DE squats ( always box squats )
Tuesday, DE bench
Thursday, ME squats/deads/goodmornings ( exercise rotates everyweek )

That is, it's 4 days a week. My body feels beat up enough doing something similar to the above, I can't imagine adding another day, ie 5 days a week. I also can't imagine pulling heavy every week, at least not for very long.

WillKuenzel
02-24-2009, 07:01 AM
I stopped deadlifting after squatting and my deadlift went down. I think it depends on the level you are. If you're not an elite level powerlifter, I think you should be deadlifting more often. We squat and deadlift on the same day to help with the lower back endurance, not to mention the fact that that's how it is at a meet. You squat and deadlift on the same day. I feel that it's appropriate to at least try to keep things similar.

If recovery is adequate and strength levels aren't elite, I don't see any reason why someone can't squat and deadlift on the same day.

BigTallOx
02-24-2009, 07:29 AM
I stopped deadlifting after squatting and my deadlift went down. I think it depends on the level you are. If you're not an elite level powerlifter, I think you should be deadlifting more often. We squat and deadlift on the same day to help with the lower back endurance, not to mention the fact that that's how it is at a meet. You squat and deadlift on the same day. I feel that it's appropriate to at least try to keep things similar.

If recovery is adequate and strength levels aren't elite, I don't see any reason why someone can't squat and deadlift on the same day.

Yes in a meet you deadlift after squatting, but my meet was 10 days ago and I still don't feel like my body is recovered enough to deadlift heavy again ( maybe somethings wrong with me, maybe my doctor will say I need HRT and give me some testosterone, lol). Do you really need to basically be doing a meet ( minus bench ) every squat/dead training session to get strong? Maybe things are different for me because I end up doing so much work because of my range of motion. Or, maybe it just means I'll never be an elite lever powerlifter ( actually I totally don't believe that ).

Pete22
02-24-2009, 07:50 AM
I can't imagine adding another day, ie 5 days a week. I also can't imagine pulling heavy every week, at least not for very long.

I add a 5th day in for deads and upper back assistance stuff, but I only pull a heavy deadlift variation every other week.

Reko
02-24-2009, 09:18 AM
Yes in a meet you deadlift after squatting, but my meet was 10 days ago and I still don't feel like my body is recovered enough to deadlift heavy again ( maybe somethings wrong with me, maybe my doctor will say I need HRT and give me some testosterone, lol). Do you really need to basically be doing a meet ( minus bench ) every squat/dead training session to get strong? Maybe things are different for me because I end up doing so much work because of my range of motion. Or, maybe it just means I'll never be an elite lever powerlifter ( actually I totally don't believe that ).

In a meet you max out 9 times as opposed to one or two in training. Its going to take you a lot longer to recover after a meet as opposed to training. CNS recovery time.

mike95763
02-24-2009, 10:24 AM
mike how did it work out? what exercises did you use?

I just finished a 3 week rotation in which I went heavy on both squats and deads in the same ME workout and combining the two helped me a ton. I have more energy for my deadlifts even after my squat workout than I used to have when I did seperate ME days for each lift. My CNS has a hard time recovering from just the two ME days a week so three was way too much. To give you an idea of how well it worked for me, in early december I did a little practice meet and squatted 425 with no belt or wraps and 455 with wraps. In early January, I tried 455 without the wraps and I couldn't get it. Then I switched up my workout and while I haven't done a competition squat since mid January (I am due to do them this week and I am very excited) I have been lifting way heavier than I thought possible in such a short time (two weeks ago I did reverse band squats maxing at 605, -40 at the top and 125 at the bottom, and last week I deloaded with easy sets of 5 at 405 then 425). During this time I also pulled 505 sumo which was a 70 lb PR and an easy 525 conventional, a 20 lb PR. So for me it works, mostly because I get overtrained if I do three ME excercises per week. I would bet a more seasoned powerlifter could do the three easily and be fine but as my CNS is still adjusting to lifting heavier weights this way works best for me. If you are interested in what I actually did, I started a training log on this site a while back so you could look there.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?p=2095958