Do you guys use any of these supplements?

[PHOENIX]

Please let me know if you have used it and thoughts on these products.

Pre work out supplemnt.

N.O. Shotgun! by VPX
Jacked by USP labs

post workout:

zero impact - VPX
Nitro tech - muscle tech.

I am planning to order them by friday and need to know the pros/cons if there are any. Also if you have some products you have used that were good, then please post the names etc.

thanks!

Phoenix

[Reko]

I am planning to order them by friday and need to know the pros/cons if there are any. Also if you have some products you have used that were good, then please post the names etc.


-cheap generic creatine
-whole milk
-flintstone vitamins
-ground beef
-steak
-oreos
-cheap generic protein that I mix with gatorade powder for better taste.
-Had some Maximus by ALN here, tis not bad.

[collin44]

Don't waste your money with Nitrotech a buddy gave me his for free and it wasn't even worth the gas to go pick it up! I would save the money and go with regular whey protein.

As for Nitric Oxide products go, I haven't had Shotgun but I have had Black Powder and it pumped me up but no more so than an energy drink or any other caffeine supplement.

[Unreal]

All of those are a waste of money.

[Tom Mutaffis]

All of those are a waste of money.

Agreed.

Phoenix - did you make your decisions based on ads that you saw in a bodybuilding / fitness magazine? All of those companies advertise heavily there and make outlandish claims.

What are your goals? We can come up with an effective supplement regimen that will help to support your diet and training so that you achieve optimal results.

[PHOENIX]

Here is how I came up with the names from. They were given by my personal Trainer.
I am getting a bit more serious now and hired a professional bodybuilder (who is also a trainer at my gym) and he recommended those.

He is by far the most defined and well built person i know. I am member of 3 club Gold's gym and 3 club Lifetime fitness. I rather be built like him than anyone else i know.

Here are my goals:
To get body fat down to single digit (6-7%).
i want to probably go up in weight up to 175-180 at most.

Right now i am sitting at 160 +/- few at 14% body fat.
I took some lexapro which totally messed me up and gained weights in the wrong places.

so that's my story.

[Unreal]

Read a much on here as you can. NO2 supplements are just good for energy/pump but don't help muscle growth. Protein is just food.

Creatine is a good supplement, and a stimulant is nice if you need it. Protein supplements are good if you need them to reach your diet goals.

[PHOENIX]

Read a much on here as you can. NO2 supplements are just good for energy/pump but don't help muscle growth. Protein is just food.

Creatine is a good supplement, and a stimulant is nice if you need it. Protein supplements are good if you need them to reach your diet goals.

Thanks bro.
Yeah i just need a good energy for the workout and then as for Protein, I am counting on food for that. I know I will also need plenty of rest and drink a lot of water.

Yeap, i need to read read & read more.

[Tom Mutaffis]

Here is how I came up with the names from. They were given by my personal Trainer.
I am getting a bit more serious now and hired a professional bodybuilder (who is also a trainer at my gym) and he recommended those.

He is by far the most defined and well built person i know. I am member of 3 club Gold's gym and 3 club Lifetime fitness. I rather be built like him than anyone else i know.

Here are my goals:
To get body fat down to single digit (6-7%).
i want to probably go up in weight up to 175-180 at most.

Right now i am sitting at 160 +/- few at 14% body fat.
I took some lexapro which totally messed me up and gained weights in the wrong places.

so that's my story.

That makes sense, and it is always reasonable to seek out a professional in a sport or activity where you are looking to excel. Unfortunately with bodybuilding it can be the complete opposite. Professional bodybuilders rely on drugs to achieve their physiques and subsequently many of them have very little knowledge about proper diet, supplementation, and training. They make look great on the outside but many of them struggle with numerous serious health concerns that are not always public knowledge. There is a reason that as soon as a bodybuilder "retires" they lose 50-70 lbs, it is the only way they can stay alive because they have destroyed much of their body including kidneys and endocrine systems.

Back to helping you though...

This gentleman at your gym may be sponsored by VPX and maybe that is why he suggested those supplements. Or maybe he likes them because some of their products are loaded with caffeine so they get you pretty hyped up when you first start taking them. Generally VPX stuff is quite overpriced and many people do not find them to be effective for their goals.

I have used NO Shotgun and was not pleased with the results. It made me feel sick and was basically just an over-advertised caffeine drink.

To acheive single digit bodyfat it is going to take a lot of discipline. I have been there at 190-200 lbs and spent pretty much all of my time eating, training, and sleeping. My diet consisted of tuna, wheat bread, protein shakes, lean red meat, sweet potatoes, and natural peanut butter. If this is something that you really want to do then you need to fully understand what you are commiting yourself to. Training 5-6 days per week, sleeping at least 8 hours per night, eating over 200 grams of protein everyday, never touching drugs or alcohol, and a lot of patience to get there.

Here is a program that I would utilize:

Training - Periodization split where you are working 1-2 bodyparts each day, 5 total training sessions per week and each bodypart is trained once. Low intensity cardio a couple of times per week once you decide to "cut" (20 minutes of walking in the morning on an empty stomach).

Diet - Low carbs, moderate fat, high protein. Glycemic index should be your consideration with carbs, protein source every 2-3 hours with a huge post-workout shake.

Life Factors - No partying, at least 8 hours of sleep every night. A lot of rest, time to prepare all of your meals, time to train, no stressful distractions like work or drama.

Supplements - The most important thing will be a good quality PWO shake and an MRP shake. You are going to probably be drinking at least two shakes a day and sometimes up to 4-5. Quality of the shake becomes very important because an inferior product could set you back when you consider the frequency of use and importance to your program. A good thermo for some energy when dieting will help, and to give you a boost pre-workout. Creatine is also good and I would keep that in your aresenal as well.

Here are some more specifics on the supplements since that is what you were looking for:

PWO & MRP Shakes - You need a shake with moderate fat (under 10 grams), moderate carbs (match protein), low sugar, some fiber, vitamins, and 34-45 grams quality protein. This is important to have a quality shake on hand for PWO recovery and you will need to drink these in between whole foods meals in order to keep on size once your metabolism is firing at full speed.

General Supplement Shakes - It is good to have a protein blend shake that you can use to boost overall daily protein intake. These are shakes that you can drink with meals, between meals, before bed, before training, etc. For this shake you want something that mixes up somewhat thin and is a blend of whey, casein, and egg so that your body has more time to utilize the protein and you can avoid stomach discomfort.

Creatine - Monohydrate is fine, I would use creapure creatine since it seems to be one of the most effective and has good quality standards. Generally you would dose with dextrose, so you would want to do this pre-workout if you are bodybuilding so that you're not taking fast carbs at random points throughout the day.

Thermo - Doesn't really matter here, most of them are based on caffeine. Some have 5-HTP and a few other things thrown in. Don't fall prey to crazy marketing claims, would just get a simple thermo that is reasonably priced.

Other Items - You may want something to help keep your insulin levels stable as insulin sensitivity is pretty important in bodybuilding. Many ALA-based products are out there for this, or even just regular ALA seemed to work for me even though some articles suggest it doesnt. Fish Oil is great for overall health and I would suggest it to everyone. A good multi-vitamin is needed when dieting since you won't have much variation with your whole foods.

Things you don't need - NO supplements, they might make you feel pumped but won't do much for actual muscle building. Muscle Milk or weight gainers, these have no place in your diet if you are working to get to single digit bodyfat. There are certain exceptions out there like Maximus which is designed for "lean bulking". Pro-hormones or anything else like that unless you have done all of your reasearch. Any designer steroids or pro-hormones are just going to put you all out of whack and create health issues.

Specific Supplements:

MRP & PWO - The best that I have used is Opticen by AtLarge Nutrition. They only sell direct but their products taste and work great. Reasonable on the price as well, under $3/serving for the MRP.

General Protein - There are quite a few on the market. AtLarge Nitrean and Dymatize 12 hour are both good, True Protein will let you make a mix but their flavoring systems are pretty terrible and shipping is outrageous. If you tell me what flavor is your favorite I can help you here - that is going to be the biggest difference between all products.

Thermos - As I mentioned above, there are plenty of good ones - shop on price and make sure the company is reputable.

Creatine - Creapure is sold by Prolab and AtLarge. Atlarge has a better price on their website and 500 grams will last you 3 months which is a great buy at under $15. It works.

Other Items - Again, reputable brands. ALN sells them so when you order opticen you can pick them up from them. Honestly they have some of the best quality control and they really do only sell stuff that works. Vitamin Shoppe is the best alternative if you are in a pinch and need to buy locally.


Let me know if you need more help with anything... I have done some bodybuilding training in the past and had great results mostly due to intelligent training, diet, and supplementation along with hard work and discipline.

Good luck!

*Who is the trainer that you are working with? I used to train with Jason Arntz, IFBB Pro sometimes. Couple guys train down here in South Florida as well including Paul Baker and Dareem Charles.

[Daniel Clough]

Superb post Tom :)

[PHOENIX]

Superb post Tom :)

No kidding. Seriously such great information.

Highly appeciate it boss.

[Tom Mutaffis]

Your welcome, it took me forever to type so I am glad that you guys read it ;)

Let me know if you need any specific information and I can try to help with your program.

[Will Wagner]

All of those are a waste of money.


Um really? Have you tried all of them. I HIGHLY doubt you have used Jacked by USPlabs as it has just came out or even know the ingredient profile. This product my freind is not just another garbage preworkout product. Its outstanding. Period.

[Unreal]

You don't have to try something to know it is a waste.

[Will Wagner]

You don't have to try something to know it is a waste.

Lol thats funny considering you dont even know whats in the product i bet. I bet you will have to look up the ingredients. Also this statement makes no sense at all.

[Southern Beast]

Your welcome, it took me forever to type so I am glad that you guys read it ;)

Let me know if you need any specific information and I can try to help with your program.

Tom, I nominate you for the most helpful poster of all time. :)

I read all your information, too, and even considering myself more of a veteran in the iron game, I still feel I reaped some benefits reading it. You're the man, Mutaffis. :thumbup:

[Southern Beast]

Um really? Have you tried all of them. I HIGHLY doubt you have used Jacked by USPlabs as it has just came out or even know the ingredient profile. This product my freind is not just another garbage preworkout product. Its outstanding. Period.

Perhaps you could give us a detailed review of the product in a separate thread? I am not being a smartass, I'd really like to know your point of view regarding Jacked.

[Masako]

Thanks for the great information, Tom, much appreciated. Having said that, all the products in the ops post are rubbish, as has already been mentioned. http://photosnag.com/img/1927/y08m1110mhmd/2.gif

[Tom Mutaffis]

That is what I am here for...

I will do some reasearch on Jacked and talk to some people who use it, maybe even get some samples if I can. Since Will Wagner (which sounds like a made up name) swears by it I want to make sure that we have the best information possible on this board.

[WillNoble]

Tom, I nominate you for the most helpful poster of all time. :)




future mod, IMHO

[Southern Beast]

future mod, IMHO

He's got my vote. :thumbup:

[PHOENIX]

Mine 2.

[Will Wagner]

That is what I am here for...

I will do some reasearch on Jacked and talk to some people who use it, maybe even get some samples if I can. Since Will Wagner (which sounds like a made up name) swears by it I want to make sure that we have the best information possible on this board.

First I respect you and all of your posts because I know you know more about lifting/supplements than I ever will. Secondly that is actually my name. But I have still say please try Jacked or atleast learn about before bashing it.

[Southern Beast]

First I respect you and all of your posts because I know you know more about lifting/supplements than I ever will. Secondly that is actually my name. But I have still say please try Jacked or atleast learn about before bashing it.

In defense of Tom, he never bashed it, and was willing to try samples if he could find some. I genuinely think you should start a thread for Jacked and post a personal review of it. Tell us the pros and cons and why it's worth it to you.

[Tom Mutaffis]

First I respect you and all of your posts because I know you know more about lifting/supplements than I ever will. Secondly that is actually my name. But I have still say please try Jacked or atleast learn about before bashing it.

Sorry to question your name - a lot of guys on here just make up fake names and start posting stuff out there.

I looked into Jacked and USPLabs website is a little ridiculous with some of their claims that maltodextrin and magnesium are the devil. What they put into their product does sound like a relatively good mix, but the amounts I do not agree with.

Here is the label:

218 Grams Lemon Lime
Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Scoop(4.844g)
Servings Per Container45

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*

Y-RD™ 153.33mg
Caffeine, Theophylline (From Guarana), 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, Dibenzo(A,c) Cycloocten-6-Ol, 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydro-1,2,3,10,11,12-Hexamethoxy-6,7-Dimethyl-,stereoisomer (Schizandrol A)

ATP-Carnosine-Vaso Complex™ 3166.67mg
Creatine Monohydrate, Beta Alanine, Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AAKG)


My issue is that optimal creatine dose is 5 grams daily, at least that is what just about everyone out there is doing. For Beta-Alanine you need at least 2.5-3 grams minimum for an effective dosage. AAKG is ok for vasodialation and pumps, but again the average dosage for those products is about 3.5 grams. With just 3 grams total in "Jacked" they are grossly under dosing all of those products, and you would likely need to take a tripple serving to get sufficient amounts - which would give you caffeine overload.

Their stimulant complex has a bunch of made up compounds that they created so that you could not really figure out what was in there (they claim one is a psuedo-amphetamine) but it looks to me like caffeine is the main active ingredient.

My thoughts are that if you want to supplement with creatine and beta alanine then you should do so in optimal amounts so that you can see the full benefits of those products. If you are adding this in as a little pre-workout boost and taking it in conjunction with the other products then it could be effective since the price is fairly reasonable.

One concern is that generally companies who make outlandish marketing claims tend to have questionable quality with their products. You may be paying for AAKG, Beta-Alanine, and these fancy stimulants and in the end just getting some caffeine - since those other compounds are fairly expensive even at manufactures cost.

Overall review - they had the right idea but the product is not something that I would add into my supplement regimen.

[Ryan Bracewell]

Please let me know if you have used it and thoughts on these products.

Pre work out supplemnt.

N.O. Shotgun! by VPX
Jacked by USP labs

post workout:

zero impact - VPX
Nitro tech - muscle tech.

I am planning to order them by friday and need to know the pros/cons if there are any. Also if you have some products you have used that were good, then please post the names etc.

thanks!

Phoenix

The 2 pre workouts that you listed are both very good products. when i do use a preworkout I like the NOshotgun. And I have several customers that love Jacked. However, pre workouts are not necessary to get big or strong. As I tell my customers, pre workouts are luxory items. Things that you purchase once you have your protein, multi, and bcaa's.

As for the protein you listed, I wouldnt go with either. the zero impact is a good product but its expensive, and the nitrotech is junk. Are you trying to gain or stay lean?

[wilkinsJD]

Sorry to question your name - a lot of guys on here just make up fake names and start posting stuff out there.

I looked into Jacked and USPLabs website is a little ridiculous with some of their claims that maltodextrin and magnesium are the devil. What they put into their product does sound like a relatively good mix, but the amounts I do not agree with.

Here is the label:

218 Grams Lemon Lime
Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Scoop(4.844g)
Servings Per Container45

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*

Y-RD™ 153.33mg
Caffeine, Theophylline (From Guarana), 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, Dibenzo(A,c) Cycloocten-6-Ol, 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydro-1,2,3,10,11,12-Hexamethoxy-6,7-Dimethyl-,stereoisomer (Schizandrol A)

ATP-Carnosine-Vaso Complex™ 3166.67mg
Creatine Monohydrate, Beta Alanine, Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AAKG)


My issue is that optimal creatine dose is 5 grams daily, at least that is what just about everyone out there is doing. For Beta-Alanine you need at least 2.5-3 grams minimum for an effective dosage. AAKG is ok for vasodialation and pumps, but again the average dosage for those products is about 3.5 grams. With just 3 grams total in "Jacked" they are grossly under dosing all of those products, and you would likely need to take a tripple serving to get sufficient amounts - which would give you caffeine overload.

Their stimulant complex has a bunch of made up compounds that they created so that you could not really figure out what was in there (they claim one is a psuedo-amphetamine) but it looks to me like caffeine is the main active ingredient.

My thoughts are that if you want to supplement with creatine and beta alanine then you should do so in optimal amounts so that you can see the full benefits of those products. If you are adding this in as a little pre-workout boost and taking it in conjunction with the other products then it could be effective since the price is fairly reasonable.

One concern is that generally companies who make outlandish marketing claims tend to have questionable quality with their products. You may be paying for AAKG, Beta-Alanine, and these fancy stimulants and in the end just getting some caffeine - since those other compounds are fairly expensive even at manufactures cost.

Overall review - they had the right idea but the product is not something that I would add into my supplement regimen.

It sounds to me like you're just talking down one company's products in an effort to sell him on another company's products.

The only supplements worth buying are fish oil, creatine, multi vitamin, and a good priced 100% whey protein powder mixed with milk to give you casein.

[PHOENIX]

It sounds to me like you're just talking down one company's products in an effort to sell him on another company's products.

The only supplements worth buying are fish oil, creatine, multi vitamin, and a good priced 100% whey protein powder mixed with milk to give you casein.


Which creatine do u suggest?

[Tom Mutaffis]

It sounds to me like you're just talking down one company's products in an effort to sell him on another company's products.

The only supplements worth buying are fish oil, creatine, multi vitamin, and a good priced 100% whey protein powder mixed with milk to give you casein.

He said that he is interested in a product that has creatine / beta alanine - the one that he had heard of does not have optimal or even effective dosages, so I suggested an alternative.

I agree that simple creatine monohydrate, fish oil, multi-vitamins, and protein shakes are all that you need. Whey only shakes are good for post-workout but for general daily supplementation they are not ideal. For this reason just about every major supplement company makes a protein blend. Granted the difference might not be huge but if you are using a lot of them and have aggressive goals then I would want to have everything done correctly.

[eruthea]

With 32% of US citizens clinically obese, and the rest of the western world quickly catching up, it's no surprise that this all natural weight loss system keeps selling.

Literally millions and millions of people are overweight and all are unhappy with their current situation. Most would like an easy way to fix it, but without resorting to synthetic dietary suppression drugs.

ProShapeRX™ system offers the consumer an all natural easy, step by step way to lose weight and keep it off. Now containing 90 pills for even better results.

Bulk purchase discounts on every single order
Signed and real customer testimonials
Exclusive member only area which upsells to other products - you get crediContains Hoodia which is well known to suppress the appetite
Hundreds of targetted articles available for your SEO workDoctor and Herbalist Doctor and Herbalist endorsed product gives credibility