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View Full Version : Is this squat deep enough?



Bruteman
02-10-2009, 11:57 AM
My squat sucks butt anyways, but now I'm worried it sucks and isn't deep enough. So is this deep enough? If you happen to have comments on the execution of the lift that's ok too. :)

qIs9u0X8GMk

Sensei
02-10-2009, 12:04 PM
You're shaving it just a little high. It would pass in some meets, but others it definitely would not.

rbtrout
02-10-2009, 12:08 PM
I have no meet experience, at all, but I thought it was high. Is there a bench availalble that's low? If so, squat to that or make a box.

Ryan Celli
02-10-2009, 12:09 PM
above parallel

BigTallOx
02-10-2009, 01:18 PM
It's high, ie the crease of the hip is above the top of the knee.

whotime
02-10-2009, 03:13 PM
its a little high,. Also i believe you would be able to lift more if you started the lift by setting back in the lift.

Meaning from the video the first thing that moves on the way down is you bend your knees and this cause you to lean a little forward and cant hit low enough. try sitting down with the weight as if there was a chair you were sitting in,

do what RB trout said either use a bench or make you a box, i made my box for 12 bucks and took me 20 minutes.

lenny spero
02-10-2009, 03:27 PM
slightly above parallel.

KarstenDD
02-10-2009, 04:35 PM
Looks fine to me.

slashkills
02-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Its high. when i wasnt getting deep enough i took about 50% of my 1rm max at the time and squat as low as i physically could a few times just to get an idea of what it feels like and to get myself in the habit. Also if your having trouble getting lower find some stretches for you hamstrings.

dbcb314
02-10-2009, 06:09 PM
High

Chubrock
02-10-2009, 06:17 PM
Good in the APF haha.

Dingus
02-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Probably fine anywhere but the IPF.

KarstenDD
02-10-2009, 08:46 PM
Probably fine anywhere but the IPF.

Even then...

wevAwiNWqtY

Bruteman
02-10-2009, 09:44 PM
So it seems like I'm close, but should try and go a smidge deeper to play it safe. That's about what I thought, but wanted some more experienced eyes to check for me. I've been doing box squats, and do them without any problems. I just can't seem to feel/find that depth properly when I take it away.

Dingus
02-11-2009, 08:29 AM
So it seems like I'm close, but should try and go a smidge deeper to play it safe. That's about what I thought, but wanted some more experienced eyes to check for me. I've been doing box squats, and do them without any problems. I just can't seem to feel/find that depth properly when I take it away.

Sounds like you should stay away from box squatting for a while, nothing wrong with squatting without one.

dbcb314
02-11-2009, 09:09 AM
I don't really understand how anyone would say this should pass in any fed...

it is clearly high... even if you take in account its hard to see top of the knee and the hip crease with those clothes on...

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hfmech.jpg

bill
02-11-2009, 10:09 AM
I don't really understand how anyone would say this should pass in any fed...

it is clearly high... even if you take in account its hard to see top of the knee and the hip crease with those clothes on...

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hfmech.jpg

I think the crease is lower, but I could be wrong.

Sensei
02-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I don't really understand how anyone would say this should pass in any fed...

it is clearly high... even if you take in account its hard to see top of the knee and the hip crease with those clothes on...
Just because it is clearly high does not mean it won't pass. If you think so, you haven't been to many meets.

I like the visual - hopefully it will help the OP see what we are talking about.

RonnyB
02-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Slightly high, not brutal, i've seen much worse.

dbcb314
02-11-2009, 11:05 AM
I think the crease is lower, but I could be wrong.
it could be a tad lower, its hard to see because of the grainy video and dark pants that bunch up

but it isn't much lower and the top of the knee may be a little lower as well.

Not going to change the fact it is high though

Bruteman
02-11-2009, 11:13 AM
Dingus---I'm only using a box for speed squats right now. I don't do heavy box squats, I usually do a pin squat, or regular squat. Your tip does make me think I should start to do heavy box squats though. It may help me get a better feel for how it feels to have max weight at proper depth.

dbcb314---Thanks for the visual. It is hard to tell for sure with gym clothes on where certain points are. I agree with bill that the crease is a little lower, but not much, and it is still too high either way.

Sensei---haha, you make a good point. As long as I set a good precedent with a nice deep opener, maybe I'll get the benefit of the doubt later if I cut it close. ;)

RonnyB---I just watched the vid of Mike Miller in another thread, and I don't feel so bad about my depth now. lol

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 11:17 AM
it could be a tad lower, its hard to see because of the grainy video and dark pants that bunch up

but it isn't much lower and the top of the knee may be a little lower as well.

Not going to change the fact it is high though

Do you even know what a high squat is? The squat in question is fine. Maybe it wouldn't get passed in some meets. But at almost any meet it would pass.

Sensei
02-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Sensei---haha, you make a good point. As long as I set a good precedent with a nice deep opener, maybe I'll get the benefit of the doubt later if I cut it close. ;)
I always made sure my first squat was very deep. It's a good strategy.

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 11:53 AM
Go to 2:45 and watch Dave's squats. Those are high.

qSNkyIGkkrs

Kenny Croxdale
02-11-2009, 01:23 PM
Do you even know what a high squat is? The squat in question is fine. Maybe it wouldn't get passed in some meets. But at almost any meet it would pass.

Kars,

It would never pass at any meet with sanctioned referees!

Kenny Croxdale

dbcb314
02-11-2009, 02:34 PM
Do you even know what a high squat is? The squat in question is fine. Maybe it wouldn't get passed in some meets. But at almost any meet it would pass.

Rules is top of the knee with crease of the hip...

look at the pic and tell me the crease of the hip broke the plane of top of the knee?

Might it get passed in a meet? maybe depending on the meet and federation. Would it be right? No, it would be a bad call.

Dingus
02-11-2009, 02:47 PM
Kars,

It would never pass at any meet with sanctioned referees!

Kenny Croxdale

Sanctioned by who? Squats higher than that are passed all the time.

Bruteman
02-11-2009, 03:21 PM
Now calm down guys. I just wanted to know if it would pass in a meet. It sounds like it may, or may not, so as long as I can get 2 judges to think it is, that's all that matters. If all 3 think it is, then I went too deep. :D

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 05:36 PM
I guess I'll just post this again.


Even then...

wevAwiNWqtY

Kenny Croxdale
02-11-2009, 05:46 PM
Now calm down guys. I just wanted to know if it would pass in a meet. It sounds like it may, or may not, so as long as I can get 2 judges to think it is, that's all that matters. If all 3 think it is, then I went too deep. :D

Brute,

You are dreaming if you really believe it is going to pass.

About 12 of the post state that your squat is high. You got more red lights than white ones.

Kenny Croxdale

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 05:52 PM
Brute,

You are dreaming if you really believe it is going to pass.

About 12 of the post state that your squat is high. You got more red lights than white ones.

Kenny Croxdale

Is Brian Siders' 992 lower than Brutemans'?

perksy
02-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Definatly high. I would say drop another 2-3 inches.

Kenny Croxdale
02-11-2009, 05:56 PM
Probably fine anywhere but the IPF.

It's not passing in the USPF, NASA, nor the USA powerlifting organizations with qualified referees.

It probably will pass at some small meet that pulls people out of the audience to judge.

Kenny Croxdale

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Rules is top of the knee with crease of the hip...

look at the pic and tell me the crease of the hip broke the plane of top of the knee?

Might it get passed in a meet? maybe depending on the meet and federation. Would it be right? No, it would be a bad call.

How many times would the judges watch the squat? Would they be able to take a picture of Bruteman in the hole and analyze if he was 3 cm high on his left ankle? No. Its a perfectly fine squat.

KarstenDD
02-11-2009, 05:59 PM
It's not passing in the USPF, NASA, nor the USA powerlifting organizations with qualified referees.

It probably will pass at some small meet that pulls people out of the audience to judge.

Kenny Croxdale

wevAwiNWqtY

Sensei
02-11-2009, 06:09 PM
Karsten,
I think you've posted the Brian Siders enough already...

Brute,
Kenny's right - you'd be very lucky if it passed in a meet.

Travis Bell
02-11-2009, 06:15 PM
It was a high squat. Seriously guys, c'mon. No it would not have passed. You should be getting much deeper given that you're raw. If you can't get deep enough raw, you are going to be screwed when you get any sort of gear on.

Its really not that hard raw dude. Sit down. Once you gain more experience in meets and know how to train for depth appropriatly you can adjust, but for now bruteman, you should be much deeper

Dingus
02-11-2009, 10:26 PM
Is Brian Siders' 992 lower than Brutemans'?

Anybody going to answer this?

dbcb314
02-12-2009, 07:58 AM
Is Brian Siders' 992 lower than Brutemans'?
Siders seems close from that angle... horrible angle to say for sure though.

But this has nothing to do with anything. Everyone gets a gift every once in a while. It happens. Should bruteman (or anyone) go to a meet expecting a gift?

I could look for a video online and find someone who gets DEEP and gets redlighted too. This doesn't mean that everyone most squat olympic style... it just means the judges missed one. It happens.

Any single ply and raw fed would red light him 90% of the time for that squat.

Travis Bell
02-12-2009, 08:29 AM
No, from that angle Siders' squat did not seem to depth.

Bad call. Big deal. This thread wasn't about Siders' squat, nor should it turn into.

Sensei
02-12-2009, 09:01 AM
Anybody going to answer this?The answer is yes, it is lower than Brute's. Tougher to see in that video because he's wearing black and the resolution isn't the best, but he's very close. Pause it a few times right at :16 and you'll probably agree with me. He's a big man and he powers out of the hole, so I'd say it's solid judging.

Travis is right though. That's not really the issue. I don't think most of us go to the gym for a squat workout and think "I'm going to see how shallow I can squat today!".

Dingus
02-12-2009, 01:09 PM
The answer is yes, it is lower than Brute's. Tougher to see in that video because he's wearing black and the resolution isn't the best, but he's very close. Pause it a few times right at :16 and you'll probably agree with me. He's a big man and he powers out of the hole, so I'd say it's solid judging.

Travis is right though. That's not really the issue. I don't think most of us go to the gym for a squat workout and think "I'm going to see how shallow I can squat today!".

Siders is awesome and that was close, and to be perfectly honest I will squat as high as will get passed. I got carried away here, Brute should be training his squats lower, but I've seen higher squats passed before that was really my only point.

WillKuenzel
02-12-2009, 01:13 PM
Brute, like some have said, I'd train to go lower, but be mindful of what you can get away with in competition.

I'll make no arguments that all of my squats aren't of depth but as long as they get 2 whites, I don't care.

Dingus
02-12-2009, 02:37 PM
Brute, like some have said, I'd train to go lower, but be mindful of what you can get away with in competition.

I'll make no arguments that all of my squats aren't of depth but as long as they get 2 whites, I don't care.

Very nicely put.

MBertrand
02-12-2009, 09:42 PM
It's not going to pass in the IPF plain and simple... and I don't have enough experience to know if would pass in another fed.

If you're going to compete take it a bit lower... if you're just training to get stronger.. than I think you're perfect...

Also I'd like to point out I liked your form a lot. You've got a real good arch in your back... that's really all I could see from that angle...

Kiknskreem
02-12-2009, 09:54 PM
If you're going to compete take it a bit lower... if you're just training to get stronger.. than I think you're perfect...

I'd say just the opposite... the only people who should worry about shaving their squats close are those who are going to do it in a meet.

If training for general strength why wouldn't you always squat to convincing depth?

Phillip Wylie
02-13-2009, 09:18 AM
Just because it is clearly high does not mean it won't pass. If you think so, you haven't been to many meets.

I like the visual - hopefully it will help the OP see what we are talking about.

From my experience it could pass in some APF or IPA meets.

Kenny Croxdale
02-13-2009, 09:44 AM
It's not going to pass in the IPF plain and simple... and I don't have enough experience to know if would pass in another fed.

If you're going to compete take it a bit lower... if you're just training to get stronger.. than I think you're perfect.

MB,

In the majority of the powerlifting organizations with knowledgeable/qualified referees. the lift is not going to pass. However as Travis noted, sometimes Christmas comes early. Even qualified referees make bad calls. That happens in every sport.

One of the "Golden Training Rule" (Henry Heatheerly/Strength Coach) is, "You lift like you train". That means if you squat high in the gym, you are going to squat high at the meet. (Conditioned Reaction).

That applies to the bench press and deadlift.

Here's a great rule of thumb that I learned from Mike Bridges. Mike would bury the first squat. Mike did this to: 1) Insure that he was in the meet and 2) To establish himself in the referee's mind as a low squatter.

On the second, make sure it's deep enough but not too low.

Bridges stated that his third attempt, was usually borderline. Bridges would go by feel. His focus was on making sure he got up with the weight, depth was secondary.

Mike would cut his depth dependent on if he felt that he could get up with the weight. The majority of time, Mike guessed right.

Bridge's third attempts (educated guesses) are similar to a linebacker in football who anticipated the the center's snap of the ball to the quaterback.

If a linebacker guesses right, he can sack the quaterback for a nice loss.

Kenny Croxdale

RhodeHouse
02-15-2009, 08:59 PM
MB,

In the majority of the powerlifting organizations with knowledgeable/qualified referees. the lift is not going to pass. However as Travis noted, sometimes Christmas comes early. Even qualified referees make bad calls. That happens in every sport.

One of the "Golden Training Rule" (Henry Heatheerly/Strength Coach) is, "You lift like you train". That means if you squat high in the gym, you are going to squat high at the meet. (Conditioned Reaction).

That applies to the bench press and deadlift.

Here's a great rule of thumb that I learned from Mike Bridges. Mike would bury the first squat. Mike did this to: 1) Insure that he was in the meet and 2) To establish himself in the referee's mind as a low squatter.

On the second, make sure it's deep enough but not too low.

Bridges stated that his third attempt, was usually borderline. Bridges would go by feel. His focus was on making sure he got up with the weight, depth was secondary.

Mike would cut his depth dependent on if he felt that he could get up with the weight. The majority of time, Mike guessed right.

Bridge's third attempts (educated guesses) are similar to a linebacker in football who anticipated the the center's snap of the ball to the quaterback.

If a linebacker guesses right, he can sack the quaterback for a nice loss.

Kenny Croxdale

What if the linebacker wasn't supposed to blitz? That was a horrible analogy. There are a number of cues that a player could look at to determine when the QB will snap the ball, despite the snap count. Therefore, it is NOT an educated guess, but a very well-studied move.

vdizenzo
02-15-2009, 09:20 PM
It was close and yes it would get passed by some. I have competed from the USAPL to the WPO and have seen lots of meets. I have seen squats that depth get whites. I am a qualified ref and I'll say that its pretty damned hard in the moment, that's why some bad lifts pass and sometimes a good one gets a bad call. Should his squats be trained lower--yes, but not as much as so many of you are making it out to be. Best of luck with your training.

Someone should post Siders 992. If I recall correctly it was passed and was about the same depth as the squat in question.

SELK
02-15-2009, 10:41 PM
Ive noticed alot of it depends on the amount of time spent in the hole, too. I am a very slow in the hole (although, this is improving) and its very easy to tell when I am at depth because of this. When I speed it up, its much harder.

the first squat posted was a little high and would likely not pass in most feds.. But sometimes its going too.

Travis Bell
02-15-2009, 11:03 PM
Given that the original intent of this thread was a question made asking for opinions on depth, I'd say bruteman got plenty of feedback and can shoot from here. I'd hate to see this turn into a federation comparison thread. We all like where we lift :)