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roflcopter
02-16-2009, 03:11 PM
Hey everyone, long time reader, first time poster.

I'm 5"10, 18 years old at the time of posting this and I currently weigh 179lbs. I have been overweight most of my life and i consider myself an endomorph to the utmost. Just over a year ago I weighed 209lbs and I feel that I still have around 20 more pounds to lose before I consider myself fit.

In the past few months I have been exercising mostly 7 days a week (sometimes 6 due to tight schedule) and my workout consists of:
30-40 minutes of treadmill
every other day I do some weight training. You're all probably shaking your heads in disgrace at me because I don't know the names of any of the exercises I do. (Try and bare with my ignorance on the subject) I do 4 sets of 10 pushups, 4 sets of 10 situps, as many pullups as I can do, and around 10 exercises that work my chest shoulders and arms. I also do lunges and squats for legs.

My eating habits generally look like this:

7:00am: Bowl of Life cereal with milk

10:30am: Turkey sandwich(very little mayo) on a roll with a water

2:00pm: FiberOne bar

4:00pm Either an Orange or an Apple

6:30pm: Dinner varies but usually grilled chicken with half of a baked potato and some grilled vegetables

8:00pm: A yogurt (the light kind with fewer calories)

And I also drink plenty of water throughout the day


What my real question here is, am I doing enough? What should I change? In terms of eating, am I eating too much? too little? Any feedback on what I'm doing is greatly appreciated and I apologize for my lack of knowledge as well as lackluster use of the terminology.

VikingWarlord
02-16-2009, 03:53 PM
Since you've done your research, you know that your diet has almost no protein in it and how helpful it is to track your intake. You should have also learned that training 7 days a week is unnecessary and even counterproductive. I'm sure you've seen that steady state cardio sessions don't help for weight loss and that cardio is most effective after resistance training.

Seriously, it's time for a total overhaul. Read this (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/) and take notes. Read it very carefully, over and over.

whiteman90909
02-16-2009, 04:03 PM
x2



Get a good routine down and get your diet in check. You know what your eating food wise, but not macro wise, and that's what actually matters.

roflcopter
02-16-2009, 04:08 PM
So how do I alter my diet so that I have a sufficient amount of protein? How many days a week should I be exercising? and here comes the really stupid question......what does "Macro" mean and how do I manipulate this aspect of my diet to help my weight loss?

(By the way, I am fully aware that I deserve to be treated like an idiot with this stuff, so hold no mercy)

VikingWarlord
02-16-2009, 04:19 PM
I can't even bring myself to be the raging dickhead I normally am. All of these questions are answered in the FAQ at the top of this forum. It contains links to other threads and articles that very knowledgeable people spent a lot of time and effort to create. Hell, there's a link in there that's called "So you need help with your diet" and another one called "What a bodybuilder eats". Memorize every word of both of those.

roflcopter
02-16-2009, 04:33 PM
The only thing that I cannot determine is whether I need to follow a weight loss diet plan or a bodybuilder diet plan. I do not consider myself a "body builder" because I want to lose fat first, but if I eat like a body builder will I lose fat in the process? I guess the root of my problem is that I don't know how to label myself in order for me to choose a specific path.

ZenMonkey
02-16-2009, 04:43 PM
This is for Viking


Someone here didnt read (read: read=comprehend) ANY of the stickies or even try to figure things out on his own. You cant have possibly read the stickies posited an issue like yours. Go read the stickies again, use the search, read at wannabebig.com

Heres what needs fixing:

Your Diet: find some protein/count your macros.
Your Routine: find a gym.

cphafner
02-16-2009, 04:43 PM
The only thing that I cannot determine is whether I need to follow a weight loss diet plan or a bodybuilder diet plan. I do not consider myself a "body builder" because I want to lose fat first, but if I eat like a body builder will I lose fat in the process? I guess the root of my problem is that I don't know how to label myself in order for me to choose a specific path.

There is no such thing as a bodybuilder program. You need to be eating less calories than you burn. This was a pretty simple program for me to follow

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=weight.loss&category=transform.2007&conitem=671b1d8690fd2110VgnVCM20000012281eac____

roflcopter
02-16-2009, 06:15 PM
Ok, I read (and in most cases re-read whether you believe me or not) and this time I definitely feel as if I have a stronger understanding of everything and damn this stuff is a science. I have a bunch of notes written down and figures that I have to maintain. Once I formulate my diet and workout plan I'll repost it hopefully with a more positive response from all of you :study: :read::bang:

jay24k
02-18-2009, 10:10 AM
Your diet is horrible. You need to eat more food. Your body is probably going nuts. Use fitday.com to calculate your calories. It's really easy. I wouldn't eat less then 1800 calories. If you are working out each day, then I'd shoot for 2200 calories a day. See how you do after 2 weeks. If you don't drop weight, then lower your calories or work out harder. You need alot more protein and a more balanced diet. I would try for a 40% protein 30 carb 30 fat or if you can, a 50% protein, 25% carb, 25% fat diet. Fitday calculates your percentages automatically.

VikingWarlord
02-18-2009, 10:44 AM
Your diet is horrible. You need to eat more food. Your body is probably going nuts. Use fitday.com to calculate your calories. It's really easy. I wouldn't eat less then 1800 calories. If you are working out each day, then I'd shoot for 2200 calories a day. See how you do after 2 weeks. If you don't drop weight, then lower your calories or work out harder. You need alot more protein and a more balanced diet. I would try for a 40% protein 30 carb 30 fat or if you can, a 50% protein, 25% carb, 25% fat diet. Fitday calculates your percentages automatically.

GAH! RATIOS BAAAAAAAAD!!

Far simpler to program a diet in specific minimum target macros based on either bodyweight or actual/estimated LBM. Once you hit those minimums, your overall caloric intake becomes slightly less important.

jay24k
02-18-2009, 10:56 AM
To each their own. I find it easier to keep track this way. I push for a specific amount of protein and carbs daily. It just happens that I personally always try to aim for 45 to 50% protein daily. And if I keep track, I know that I can cater my eating to fit that. IF I'm lower, I might down a protein shake and a higher protein dinner. I think ratios are good because many people think fat is bad and carb out. This way if you are hitting 70% carbs and 10% fat, you can tell your diet is not balanced.

BFGUITAR
02-21-2009, 06:51 PM
To each their own. I find it easier to keep track this way. I push for a specific amount of protein and carbs daily. It just happens that I personally always try to aim for 45 to 50% protein daily. And if I keep track, I know that I can cater my eating to fit that. IF I'm lower, I might down a protein shake and a higher protein dinner. I think ratios are good because many people think fat is bad and carb out. This way if you are hitting 70% carbs and 10% fat, you can tell your diet is not balanced.

Thank you captain obvious.

When you have to go to the trouble of crunching percentages your making things way to complicated.

CrazyK
02-21-2009, 08:15 PM
You're 179 lbs. @ 5'10''. Gain 30 lbs. and then worry about being fat.

jay24k
02-22-2009, 06:43 AM
Thank you captain obvious.

When you have to go to the trouble of crunching percentages your making things way to complicated.


What is so complicated about percentages? Using fitday, it tells you them automatically. You an use them as a reference. I could understand if it took so much time, but it really doesn't take any time at all. And after you watch you diet for about 3 to 4 weeks, you find out how you should tailor your diet. I personally eat my carbs earlier and cut them out at night. I generally hit my 1x to 1.25x protein of my body weight a day easily and sometimes more. When I do that with my calories I've alotted, the percentages fall in place. It is just a guide to make sure I'm on track.

I guess looking at the bottom of fit day and understanding how to read a pie chart is "too complicated". ;)

dirtyd
02-22-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm sure you've seen that steady state cardio sessions don't help for weight loss and that cardio is most effective after resistance training.


Viking, can you elaborate on this a little?

I was about to start implementing steady state for my pre-summer cut. It worked for me last year, coupled of course with a very good diet, but my muscles did lose a little size. This didn't bother me too much though because they tend to look bigger at a lower BF%.

Anyway, what in your opinion is best for weight loss? Also, why cardio after weightlifting?

VikingWarlord
02-23-2009, 08:11 AM
Best for weight loss? Eat less.

Cardio isn't supposed to be used to lose fat. The uninformed believe that. Cardiovascular exercise is meant to strengthen the cardiovascular system. That's it. Unless you're training as]/i] an endurance athlete, there's no need to train [i]like an endurance athlete.

Read this: How To Do Cardio If You Must (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=292)

In addition to being shown to be of greater benefit when done after lifting, you want to do it that way just because you want to have your energy while you lift. If you burn away all your energy running/biking/whatever first, you'll have nothing left in the tank once it comes time to move heavy ****.

jay24k
02-23-2009, 10:17 AM
I prefer HIIT cardio. Seems to be more affective in burning the fat. Personally eating less will lead to weight loss but imo it is better to burn the fat off then starve yourself. The way I lost my weight is using the bodyforlife.com method and it works very well. You tailor your speeds to your personal needs and continue to increase. For example, at the end I was doing this for 20 minutes.

Minute 1 to 3 - 4 mph warm up.
4. 6 mph
5. 7 mph
6. 8 mph
7. 7 mph
8. 8 mph
9. 9 mph
10. 10mph
11-14 mimic minutes 7 through 10.
15 through 18 same
Minute 19 increase mph or incline.
Minute 20 cool down.

I lost alot of weight doing this and lost it quick. You should feel completely exhausted after doing this. Increase the incline or speed if you don't feel that way. I did it 6 days a week but your goals might be different.

Others do it by running 1 minute, resting a minute, etc. But research is showing static running is not nearly as effective as high intensity interval training.

VikingWarlord
02-23-2009, 10:47 AM
I prefer HIIT cardio. Seems to be more affective in burning the fat. Personally eating less will lead to weight loss but imo it is better to burn the fat off then starve yourself. The way I lost my weight is using the bodyforlife.com method and it works very well. You tailor your speeds to your personal needs and continue to increase. For example, at the end I was doing this for 20 minutes.

Minute 1 to 3 - 4 mph warm up.
4. 6 mph
5. 7 mph
6. 8 mph
7. 7 mph
8. 8 mph
9. 9 mph
10. 10mph
11-14 mimic minutes 7 through 10.
15 through 18 same
Minute 19 increase mph or incline.
Minute 20 cool down.

I lost alot of weight doing this and lost it quick. You should feel completely exhausted after doing this. Increase the incline or speed if you don't feel that way. I did it 6 days a week but your goals might be different.

Uhh...dude, that isn't HIIT. There are no intervals. You're just periodically increasing the intensity. HIIT follows a set work/rest pattern.

Also, saying that it's better to "burn the fat off" is just bad advice. Eating a caloric deficit doesn't mean you have to starve yourself. If you're starving yourself, chances are you're an idiot or you're on a PSMF. Having done 5 cycles of that myself, it amounts to the same thing.

Like I said before, cardiovascular exercise is for strengthening the cardiovascular system, not for burning fat. If it was to be used primarly for lipolysis, I'd imagine it'd have that word in the name.

jay24k
02-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Every minute you are increasing the intensity and then going back down. 6 mph to me is a rest intensity. 10mph is high intensity with the incline I choose. Burning the fat is not bad advice. It's better to burn if off then eat so little. You stick with your calorie restriction and if you want to burn off more fat, then you can increase your workouts. Common sense. There are many programs out there and people who spout one thing are completely ignorant. Read up on bodyforlife.com, tom venuto's burn the fat, and other good fitness programs out there. Even the way biggest loser does things is good although I don't agree with some of their food choices but I guess when you deal with people with such bad habits, they have to take baby steps in food quality.

Burning calories is going to burn fat. Bottom line. Cardio is very good to do for anyone imo.
It has alot of benefits from reducing stress levels, increasing blood flow to the brain, improves cholesterol, digestion and a slew of other benefits.

JasonLift
02-23-2009, 11:35 AM
You're 179 lbs. @ 5'10''. Gain 30 lbs. and then worry about being fat.

I was thinking the same thing.

JasonLift
02-23-2009, 11:39 AM
I prefer HIIT cardio. Seems to be more affective in burning the fat. Personally eating less will lead to weight loss but imo it is better to burn the fat off then starve yourself. The way I lost my weight is using the bodyforlife.com method and it works very well. You tailor your speeds to your personal needs and continue to increase. For example, at the end I was doing this for 20 minutes.

Minute 1 to 3 - 4 mph warm up.
4. 6 mph
5. 7 mph
6. 8 mph
7. 7 mph
8. 8 mph
9. 9 mph
10. 10mph
11-14 mimic minutes 7 through 10.
15 through 18 same
Minute 19 increase mph or incline.
Minute 20 cool down.

I lost alot of weight doing this and lost it quick. You should feel completely exhausted after doing this. Increase the incline or speed if you don't feel that way. I did it 6 days a week but your goals might be different.

Others do it by running 1 minute, resting a minute, etc. But research is showing static running is not nearly as effective as high intensity interval training.

I do something similar to you. I call it a modified HIIT type of training. Worked wonders for me physically and for weightloss.

VikingWarlord
02-23-2009, 11:48 AM
Every minute you are increasing the intensity and then going back down. 6 mph to me is a rest intensity. 10mph is high intensity with the incline I choose.

Yeah, that still doesn't really qualify as HIIT. HIIT is work, rest, work, rest, work, rest, etc. Rest = STOP.


Burning the fat is not bad advice. It's better to burn if off then eat so little. You stick with your calorie restriction and if you want to burn off more fat, then you can increase your workouts. Common sense. There are many programs out there and people who spout one thing are completely ignorant. Read up on bodyforlife.com, tom venuto's burn the fat, and other good fitness programs out there. Even the way biggest loser does things is good although I don't agree with some of their food choices but I guess when you deal with people with such bad habits, they have to take baby steps in food quality.

I've read Venuto and haven't been at all impressed with any of it. That Burn The Fat Feed The Muscle book is a joke. It'll work for some people but far more crash and burn because his high carb/low fat + lots of cardio approach isn't sustainable for a long period.

I'll ask you then, why is it so much better to create an artificial caloric deficit through exercise than it is to create an actual deficit by eating less? Please explain the science behind your claim.


Burning calories is going to burn fat. Bottom line.

AHAHAHAHA!!! HAHAHA!!!!! HAHA!! YOU FUNNY GUY!!!

WRONG!!!


Cardio is very good to do for anyone imo.
It has alot of benefits from reducing stress levels, increasing blood flow to the brain, improves cholesterol, digestion and a slew of other benefits.

I didn't say it didn't have benefits. I said that it's stupid to rely on it for your primary source of calorie expenditure.

jay24k
02-23-2009, 12:24 PM
Apparently you think you are some fitness guru. Go do some reading, research and maybe you will look intelligent. Feel free to turn things to your liking all you want. Just like the burning calories. If you eat a deficit and burn additional calories, you will burn the fat. Granted there are exceptions such as long durations of cardio or dependence on what you eat that could eat into your muscle. But you like to twist things so feel free. Arguing with you is about pointless since you are so stuck on yourself and only choose to think one way even though there are proven and effective ways to do it. I'd comment on your myspace but I was taught to be polite :).

While the guy may weight 179 at 5'10, he might want to cut up first then bulk. That's what I preferred. I dropped to 209 from 279 at 6-3. And now I continue to clean bulk up. I personally feel a higher satisfaction not seeing 20 pounds of fat while adding 10 pounds of muscle but seeing a more gradual gain while still staying fit and in great shape. Some people prefer to bulk heavy and then cut and I think whatever method someone prefers is fine. There isn't "ONE" way to get results. Read some of the experiences of body builders and you can learn alot.

Pimpstick
02-23-2009, 01:02 PM
jay24k,

From what I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about, so stop. Viking is simply summarizing the information contained in the articles and stickies on this site, and you are just regurgitating broscience all over the place.

There's a huge difference between 179 pounds and 279 pounds. You were obviously a tub of lard. If the 179 pound guy lost 70 pounds, he would die. At a height of 5' 10", 159 pounds would be tiny. He'd be better off developing a sound diet, learning the proper way to do cardio (not yours), and doing a good weight routine. Recommending that an 18 year old man eat 1800 calories a day is beyond stupid.

wl22
02-26-2009, 05:22 PM
alrite so heres my story...if you think its repetitive ok thats cool I Can take the heated responses..for those who are willing to help I can take all the constructive criticism I can get. So I weigh 205 lb. I'm hitting the gym about 6 times a week...lifitng 6 days...cardio 5 days a week 45 min elipitical alternating with treadmill...and I'm doing abs 5 days a week...my bf% is supposedly 18% but in my opinion I think its higher I would say around 22-23%. I've recently started cleaning up my diet...on a daily basis this is what I'm eating...my main goal is to tone up and reach around 180 lb and LOSE the belly fat...

morning 7am- plain oatmeal cup of 1% milk
10 am- 2 hard boiled eggs scoop and a half of whey protein
lunch 12ish turkey sandwich on wheat bread...no mayo....sometimes with low fat cheese
4pm plain oatmeal pre work out
post workout scoop and half of protein
dinner 7ish- chicken breast w/ veggies or tuna fish on wheat bread and some almonds/ other nuts
If I'm hungry later at night I might eat a low fat yougurt or orange or some kind of fruit

my diet is nowhere near perfect but I'm trying to cut out most unhealthy foods that I would eat in the past and cut out eating out as much


so my question is...is my diet relatively ok? and I'm also starting to really feel sore...any suggestions on what I could possibly take in terms of supplements possibly AA's. I was taking fat burners called LEviathin last year that helped with the initial pounds but I felt like I got to the plateau very quick


rip on me all you want...any suggestions would be much appreciated

thanks for your time

VikingWarlord
02-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Post macros. Total calories, total fat, protein, and carbohydrates in grams.

You're doing too much cardio, too much lifting, and too much ab work.

BULK_BOY
02-26-2009, 08:19 PM
:withstupi:

wl22
02-26-2009, 09:59 PM
haha so im basically doing everything wrong...damn that kinda sucks...

so heres the breakdown of what I ate today and this is usually the same everyday more or less....this is exactly everything I ate...no sugar coating...ive been cutting back on my calories alot the past week which prob isnt the best thing but in my mind the less calories i eat but keeping up with protein and the more exercise I get in the better...prob not the best way to go

calories-1696
fat 20 g
carbs- 267
sugar 50 g
protein 122 g

i am eating about every 3 hours but in smaller portions...and I just try to pick all low calorie high proteins....

so basically i started this what I thought was a good work out schedule about a month ago...and ive lost about 6 pounds...i started around 212 and now about 205...my goals to get to like 180s-but lose the belly fat and tone up...any ideas or criticism are welcome....i apologize if all this is repetitive but I honestly am pretty much clueless and this what I thought was the right step to take but maybe it wasnt haha...only thing i am taking is protein shakes and basically just after workouts

thanks

AKMass
02-27-2009, 07:46 AM
haha so im basically doing everything wrong...damn that kinda sucks...

so heres the breakdown of what I ate today and this is usually the same everyday more or less....this is exactly everything I ate...no sugar coating...ive been cutting back on my calories alot the past week which prob isnt the best thing but in my mind the less calories i eat but keeping up with protein and the more exercise I get in the better...prob not the best way to go

calories-1696
fat 20 g
carbs- 267
sugar 50 g
protein 122 g

i am eating about every 3 hours but in smaller portions...and I just try to pick all low calorie high proteins....

so basically i started this what I thought was a good work out schedule about a month ago...and ive lost about 6 pounds...i started around 212 and now about 205...my goals to get to like 180s-but lose the belly fat and tone up...any ideas or criticism are welcome....i apologize if all this is repetitive but I honestly am pretty much clueless and this what I thought was the right step to take but maybe it wasnt haha...only thing i am taking is protein shakes and basically just after workouts

thanks

Well the good news is, you probably have to do less work (in terms of working out)! You should check out a program like Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength.

Your diet needs quite a bit of work though...

First, I'm calculating that you're actually consuming 1736 calories, not 1696. Here's my calculation, please correct me if I'm wrong:

20g fat x 9 cals/g = 180 cals
122g protein x 4 cals/g = 488 cals
267 carbs x 4 cals/g = 1068 cals
Total = 1736 cals.

Next, your fat intake is way too low, carbs are way too high, and protein isn't high enough. The following are minimums for macronutrient consumption:

-1g protein per lb of bodyweight, so for you, roughly 200 grams of protein per day.

-.5g fat per lb of bodyweight, ~100 grams for you specifically.

Remember, these are minimums, you could consume a lot more protein if you wanted. You could do with more fat too, but don't go crazy.

Currently your diet has 60% of calories coming from carbohydrates...Do you drink a lot of soda/pop?

You're losing weight, so we know you're below maintenance calories, though I have no idea how much. Six pounds in a month is too fast to lose weight, unless a lot of it is water weight. I'd actually suggest increasing your calories a little bit, to, say 2200 calories per day. Then your ideal daily macros would look something like this:

200g protein x 4 cals/g = 800 cals
100g fat x 9 cals/g = 900 cals
125g carbs x 4 cals/g = 500 cals

Use this link to construct a diet that fits those macros:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=46565

Good luck. :)

Unreal
02-27-2009, 08:20 AM
When you calculated calories did you actually weigh your chicken/fish? Did you use a measuring cup for your oatmeal? If your not measuring/weighing food then your calorie count is probably WAY off. Just a heads up. Other then that what they said above is correct. More protein, less carbs, more fat.

wl22
02-27-2009, 10:37 AM
well what i listed up there was basically exact for the day...ex. can of tuna all the nutritonal facts were there...and in terms of oatmeal I usually make 1 cup- 1 1/2 a day and eat it twice...most of what I eat is either measured or premeasured...there might be some error here and there but not too much...I actually thought what I was eating was healthy and no I don't drink soda at all...I think my carb consumption is mainly from wheat bread, oatmeal, and rice...maybe I should cut down a bit on that and increase my protein intake...another question in terms of increasing my fat.. I should opbviously consume the "good" fats...should I eat more nuts and things of that nature? in your experience what would you eat to get to this daily fat intake? I jus thought the less fat I consume the better...If i increase my calories to 2200 will I still lose the weight I want?

sorry if I'm all over the place and throwing randolm questions in..

thanks for the help
appreciate it!

wl

AKMass
02-27-2009, 11:17 AM
If you're not using fitday.com, I'd use that to track your food intake...It does the calculations for you.


well what i listed up there was basically exact for the day...ex. can of tuna all the nutritonal facts were there...and in terms of oatmeal I usually make 1 cup- 1 1/2 a day and eat it twice...most of what I eat is either measured or premeasured...there might be some error here and there but not too much...I actually thought what I was eating was healthy and no I don't drink soda at all...I think my carb consumption is mainly from wheat bread, oatmeal, and rice...maybe I should cut down a bit on that and increase my protein intake...

I agree. Add milk in your protein shakes (though this has a lot of carbs). You must eat a helluva lot of oatmeal.

another question in terms of increasing my fat.. I should opbviously consume the "good" fats...should I eat more nuts and things of that nature?

Yep.

in your experience what would you eat to get to this daily fat intake?

Nuts as you mentioned, whole fat milk will help. Also, kind of gross, but easy way is to add olive oil to everything.

I jus thought the less fat I consume the better...

This is a common misconception.

If i increase my calories to 2200 will I still lose the weight I want?

I don't know for sure, but I'd bet yes. I don't know how much muscle you have, but losing weight too quickly will eat up a lot of muscle. If you have no muscle, then you won't be able to "tone up".

sorry if I'm all over the place and throwing randolm questions in..

thanks for the help
appreciate it!

wl

Unreal
02-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Fat sources. Fish, avocado, eggs, olive oil, nuts, nut butters, butter, coconut oil, cheese, etc.