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supersam3
03-09-2009, 12:51 PM
I've been working out for a long time using the BFS workouts for my football team and don't really think the workouts are the best for me. I recently changed my usual shoulders/arms/chest workout, so I'm all set with those muscle groups, but I can't seem to get anything going with a leg workout.

I am going for a target of 12-15 reps per set and I workout Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I was hoping someone could give me advice on a 5-week cycle of workouts.

slashkills
03-09-2009, 06:36 PM
Can you go more in depth on what your current training and numbers look like? If you meant your doing 12-15 reps for your leg exercises that is way to high. Lower that to about 3-5 reps on your final sets. if you want more lower strength for football Squat, deadlift, and squat!

Tom Mutaffis
03-11-2009, 10:16 AM
High repetition olypmic squats, low repetition trap bar deadlifts, power cleans, sled drags.

squat huge
04-10-2009, 02:33 PM
In my experience high reps are great for adding mass to your legs, while lower reps are better for increasing force output. So both are beneficial to a football player, however I would really focus on lower rep work for football unless you are in a hypertrophy cycle. I second Tom's list of movements. With the power clean, go low on the catch, this will mimick the eccentric portion of a depth jump, and the concentric portion of a front squat. That said you can do your power cleans on a different day than your squat and you will essentially be squating twice a week. If going low on your cleans means using less weight than use less weight, in the long run you will be stronger. Don't forget that you are a football player not a power lifter. Football is all about lateral forces, changing direction, acceleration, balance. I would suggest single leg squats, walking lunges, lateral box jumps, as part of an agility program to complement your strength training.

schmitty199
04-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Squats should be your main focus.. unless you want to attempt the "Super Squats" routine imo you should keep it at 8 reps and lower imo. Like said above 3-5 is what most people find works best.

In addition to squats, weighted lunges and glute-ham raises are excellent complimentry lifts. If you want to get a little more advanced, single leg squats and OH squats can be options.

WillNoble
04-11-2009, 07:48 AM
Box Squat, Trap Bar Deads, Regular Deadlifts (sumo), GHR (if Available)...


I don't know if I can emphasize Box Squatting enough, it is a true power builder and will aid in making you a much more explosive athlete, especially when adding accommodating leverages such as Bands or chains...


I understand that Cleans are part of football, which is both sad and pathetic, and if you must do them, don't make them the primary movement on your 2 lower body days, they are certainly an overrated movement for football, and if your goal is building lower body strength and power I would hang my hat on box squats and deadlifts...

VikingWarlord
04-11-2009, 10:18 AM
I understand that Cleans are part of football, which is both sad and pathetic

I really don't know about that. If done well, they're very helpful for building the explosive power necessary for a lineman to come off the ball.

Squats and deadlifts are going to build core strength (obviously) but cleans will build a faster base for sudden power generation for someone not doing DE work. You're right that they shouldn't be the primary focus but shouldn't be neglected either.

I always hated the BFS program in high school though.

slashkills
04-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Dont mean to hijack the thread ,but why trap bar deadlifts? Why would a regular deadlift not be enough?

slashkills
04-11-2009, 10:22 AM
I really don't know about that. If done well, they're very helpful for building the explosive power necessary for a lineman to come off the ball.

Squats and deadlifts are going to build core strength (obviously) but cleans will build a faster base for sudden power generation for someone not doing DE work. You're right that they shouldn't be the primary focus but shouldn't be neglected either.

I always hated the BFS program in high school though.

I think because of the amount of time neccassary to learn a proper clean there are better alternatives that will give you the same resuts.

WillNoble
04-11-2009, 01:04 PM
I really don't know about that. If done well, they're very helpful for building the explosive power necessary for a lineman to come off the ball.

Squats and deadlifts are going to build core strength (obviously) but cleans will build a faster base for sudden power generation for someone not doing DE work. You're right that they shouldn't be the primary focus but shouldn't be neglected either.

I always hated the BFS program in high school though.

As I stated earlier, I agree that they shouldn tbe neglected but not be a primary focus, which several coaches make the mistake of doing. That said however, there are many other lifts/movements that will build explosive power (especially in linemen) that have neither the learning curve, nor some of the negative side effects of cleans. Also the fact that 99% of individuals in this world cannot complete a proper clean, and many of the people teaching the movement end up teaching an explosive high pull/French Curl combo.

samadhi_smiles
04-12-2009, 06:14 PM
wouldn't DE squats build tremendous explosive power?

slashkills
04-12-2009, 06:22 PM
Yes. You can also use bands and chains. They will help explosiveness a lot.

cwoodrb105
04-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Regular squats and front squats truly worked wonders for my leg strength.

WillNoble
04-12-2009, 06:47 PM
wouldn't DE squats build tremendous explosive power?

no, they build force production, not power, power lies within Max Effort component of the protocol... hence the ME/DE split

joey54
04-12-2009, 07:03 PM
As I stated earlier, I agree that they shouldn tbe neglected but not be a primary focus, which several coaches make the mistake of doing. That said however, there are many other lifts/movements that will build explosive power (especially in linemen) that have neither the learning curve, nor some of the negative side effects of cleans. Also the fact that 99% of individuals in this world cannot complete a proper clean, and many of the people teaching the movement end up teaching an explosive high pull/French Curl combo.

Will, do you feel cleans really made a difference for you during your football days? On several occasions I have indicated I did not feel cleans were as important as others feel they are, for some of the reasons you have listed. Not to say they aren't a great tool, I just don't think if I ever became really proficient in them, it would have made that much of a difference in me as a football player, I just would have been a good football player who was good in cleans instead of a good football player who was bad at cleans.

schmitty199
04-13-2009, 10:38 AM
Box Squat, Trap Bar Deads, Regular Deadlifts (sumo), GHR (if Available)...


I don't know if I can emphasize Box Squatting enough, it is a true power builder and will aid in making you a much more explosive athlete, especially when adding accommodating leverages such as Bands or chains...

I understand that Cleans are part of football, which is both sad and pathetic, and if you must do them, don't make them the primary movement on your 2 lower body days, they are certainly an overrated movement for football, and if your goal is building lower body strength and power I would hang my hat on box squats and deadlifts...


Box squatting instead of full squats or in addition to full squats? And also id like to hear the reasoning for this. (Not disagreeing or questioning it at all, just curious)

Tom Mutaffis
04-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Dont mean to hijack the thread ,but why trap bar deadlifts? Why would a regular deadlift not be enough?

Trap bar deadlifts are safer - more of a natural movement to have the weight at the sides and will involve more legs / less lower back. You can also handle more weight with these than you could on a standard deadlift.


Box squatting instead of full squats or in addition to full squats? And also id like to hear the reasoning for this. (Not disagreeing or questioning it at all, just curious)

Similar to above, a box squat is an easier movement to learn so that the lifters can focus on heavy weights and safe lifting. Free squatting requires good technique and competent spotters, among other things. A box squat is a lift where you can just pile on the weight, know that you are hitting depth, and not have to worry too much if you miss a lift (assuming that you are in a power rack).

WillNoble
04-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Will, do you feel cleans really made a difference for you during your football days? On several occasions I have indicated I did not feel cleans were as important as others feel they are, for some of the reasons you have listed. Not to say they aren't a great tool, I just don't think if I ever became really proficient in them, it would have made that much of a difference in me as a football player, I just would have been a good football player who was good in cleans instead of a good football player who was bad at cleans.

No none whatsoever, they are an overrated exercise that is taught (almost always) by someone who has little competence or patience to teach the proper form and the resultant "clean" is nothing more than a heavy high pull, coupled with a French curl...

I "cleaned" 380+lbs. in college, I saw several teammates "clean" over 400, we also did "snatches" but did it positively affect our athletic abilities... NO. They were however a big point of importance to the Head Coach, so we did em, such is the reality of big time college sports.

"Cleans" are good for two things in football, taking up precious time in the weight room and providing unnecessary injuries (typically wrist issues from boor technique, although I did see a guy tear an MCL trying to jump under the weight...What a waste


Again, not knocking the lift, if done properly, but we were football players not Oly lifters, so why waste the necessary time?

WillNoble
04-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Similar to above, a box squat is an easier movement to learn so that the lifters can focus on heavy weights and safe lifting. Free squatting requires good technique and competent spotters, among other things. A box squat is a lift where you can just pile on the weight, know that you are hitting depth, and not have to worry too much if you miss a lift (assuming that you are in a power rack).

This,


and they are tremendous Posterior chain builders which is paramount in football, couple with that the explosion built in the hip flexors by releasing on the box then having to overcome the break up of the concentric/eccentric chain and then the subsequent addition of accommodating resistance...

Box Squats are far superior for football athletes (and most others)

joey54
04-13-2009, 06:47 PM
No none whatsoever, they are an overrated exercise that is taught (almost always) by someone who has little competence or patience to teach the proper form and the resultant "clean" is nothing more than a heavy high pull, coupled with a French curl...

I "cleaned" 380+lbs. in college, I saw several teammates "clean" over 400, we also did "snatches" but did it positively affect our athletic abilities... NO. They were however a big point of importance to the Head Coach, so we did em, such is the reality of big time college sports.

"Cleans" are good for two things in football, taking up precious time in the weight room and providing unnecessary injuries (typically wrist issues from boor technique, although I did see a guy tear an MCL trying to jump under the weight...What a waste


Again, not knocking the lift, if done properly, but we were football players not Oly lifters, so why waste the necessary time?


I completely agree. My best cleans were sets of like 250 for 3, but I could squat and deadlift decently for my size. Granted I was playing D3, not D1 like you, but I routinely went against guys who could clean over 100 lbs more than me and few were ever more explosive out of their stance than I was.

schmitty199
04-14-2009, 09:56 PM
This,


and they are tremendous Posterior chain builders which is paramount in football, couple with that the explosion built in the hip flexors by releasing on the box then having to overcome the break up of the concentric/eccentric chain and then the subsequent addition of accommodating resistance...

Box Squats are far superior for football athletes (and most others)

Hmm interesting.. was just curious because everything ive read pretty much says full squats are far more effective then box squats. I may have to do some research on this, because I know id definetly preffer to do a box squat over a full squat any day, and if it's really just as good why not?

WillNoble
04-15-2009, 06:32 AM
Hmm interesting.. was just curious because everything ive read pretty much says full squats are far more effective then box squats. I may have to do some research on this, because I know id definetly preffer to do a box squat over a full squat any day, and if it's really just as good why not?

Honestly its a situational thing, but if you are looking for rapid force development and explosive strength, box squats and accommodating resistance are the trick... No research required

Brad08
04-15-2009, 07:03 AM
Hmm interesting.. was just curious because everything ive read pretty much says full squats are far more effective then box squats.

It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. You can work both in on alternate days, in alternate cycles, or as back off sets to your primary squat.

coachjburk
05-20-2009, 06:53 AM
step ups are another complimentary exercise

BoAnderson71
05-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Schmitty, to make it simple, box squat is easier to learn, less risky, and better for explosion. Think about it, you squat down then sit down and have no momentum, then you have to explode up out of that postion. That is exactly like football, start stationary then explode. Free squats are good too, But easier to hurt ones self, harder to learn, and you can use momentum. I do free squats and get great results so i'm not bashing on them or saying they suck,but the only reason I do free squats is because my highschool doesn't have a box to squat on, we have a chair. I'm not going to try to sit down on a wobbly chair with 450+ on my back. There both good, but for athletes box squats, if you want to be a proffesional powerlifter or oly lifter, free squats.