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Fighter_15
03-10-2009, 01:02 PM
Here is my workout that I'm planning on starting in a few weeks. I took it out of the westside barbell book of methods and I have a few questions. The questions are in italics and I'd appreciate anyone giving me comments on my workout, and answering my questions.

Monday ME DEADLIFT DAY
deadlift standing on a blockwork up to max 1 how high should the blocks be that I'm standing on? Also what is the point of doing it on blocks?
glute ham raises 4x8
weighted leg raises 3x10 which are your favorite? hanging? laying on an incline?
reverse hypers 3x10 My gym doesn't have a reverse hyper machine is there anything else I can do instead of these?
neck extensions 2x20

Wednesday ME BENCH DAY
2-Board press work up to max 1 - where do I get the boards from? If I have to make them how tall/wide do I make them and what type of wood should i use? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere in the book but I can't remember and I can't find it.
4 of 5 board press work up to max 5 What does work up to max 5 mean?
elbow out extensions 3x15
One arm rows 3x15
face pulls 3x15

Friday DE LEG DAY
Box Squats 8x2@50% it says use chains but I don't have chains so is it ok if I go without?
Speed Deadlifts 6x1@60%
Glute ham raises 5x12
ab work on a lat machine 3-4 sets
sled work 2-3 trips with light weightI don't have a sled so is there something i can substitute for this?

Sunday DE BENCH DAY
Bench press 10x3x35% meet best The book says I should use three different grips all inside the rings. Where should I place my hands on these grips? Ex: My pinky finger is normally on the power ring when I bench, what other 2 grips should I use?
Close grip press 5x5
elbows out extensions 2x20
hammer curls 2x20
reverse hypers 2-3 light sets each for 25-30 reps
ab work 2-3 light sets each for 25-30 reps

Then the next week as an ME SQUAT DAY on Monday I will do

Low box squat work up to max 1 - I just need a box where my hips are lower then my knees when sitting right?
leg curls with bands 3x15 - except i don't have bands yet is it ok to go without them?
reverse hypers 3x15
side work with landmine 3-4 sets - I have no idea what a landmine is can anyone tell me what they are?

Thanks to anyone who answers my questions because there are a descent amount of them. Also, there isn't much bicep or shoulder work, how do WBB people get big biceps and shoulders?

Travis Bell
03-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Wow! Lots of good questions haha. That must have taken you awhile to type. Let me see if I can plow through that

Blocks for your deficit deadlifting should be anywhere from 2-4in. 4 is going to be pretty difficult. The reason is it'll make you stronger off the floor

- I would do both hanging and lying on an incline. Variety will keep you well rounded
- Wait for some of the other posters to chime in, I know some people have found ways of simulating that exercise
- You can make the boards out of 2x4 or 4x4 wood, doesn't matter what kind. Just cut it into whatever lengths you like and nail them together
- Instead of working up to a max single, work up to a 5 rep max
- yes it is OK to go without, but I would invest in some bands in the near future. Chains are very expensive unless you can find them at a shipping yard or the like
- You can make a super cheap sled out of a tire, U bolt, some chain and some rope. I have a picture of mine somewhere in my log, I'll find it
- Your 3 grips are - index finger on the smooth, thumb length from the smooth, and pinkie on the ring
- Yes, I would make a box that height, and then use small mats to make it higher and lower depending on what you want to do for that given day
- It's ok for now, but like I said, get some bands soon
- I wouldn't worry bout the landmine, it's a machine that Lou invented. Not really worth buying if you are doing this in a commercial gym.

Actually I'd order the bands now if you can. Elite is having a sale on them. I just picked up some more average and mini bands. Make sure your order 2 of each kind of band, they list the price for one.

I'd get some light bands and average bands to start. Maybe some mini bands for benching if you can afford it.

Travis Bell
03-10-2009, 01:43 PM
OH, the biceps and shoulders thing. We do lots of rear delt work, very little bicep work though. Your shoulders are worked a lot by benching and your biceps are worked by the rowing work you do

Lones Green
03-10-2009, 01:51 PM
Lordy, lets see.

The blocks allow for a greater ROM. They will make you strong off the floor, and strong at the lockout because of the increased ROM. Do them at varied heights. I usually just stand on a plate or 2.

Leg raises...just do them. I like hanging.

There is nothing that can replace a reverse hyper. Try jerry rigging something with a cable, but other than that I'd just do a hamstring movement + a low back movement.

Look up how to make boards. If it says it in the book, please refer back to that instead of being lazy. 2 x 4's work, 2 x 6's work.

max 5 = work up to a 5 rep max...I'm not sure how else to say it

No chains? bands are cheap and serve a similar purpose. If you don't have them, I guess you'll have to go without.

Make a sled. There are plenty of recipes for this. I went and bought an old piece of steel and did some amateur welding in one night and had a sled. You can also make one out of a tire, Travis can help you with that.

If it does not specify, pick 2 other grips. Some guys like to start close and work out, I do them differently just so I can keep up with how many sets I've done.

A low box is going to be an inch or 2 below parallel.

You could use a leg curl machine.

Landmine:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AXp_wunFm5I/SQjsktcGf2I/AAAAAAAAAA0/jzkRNIJDsdU/S220/grappler.jpg

Jam a barbell in the corner and do them that way.

The guys at Westside are trying to be as strong as possible. There is PLENTY of shoulder work that comes with benching, and you get plenty of bicep work from back work. The bicep is not that important.


WSBB is for those looking to get strong. You might look into finding a PL gym close to you and training there, they might have some of the equipment you are looking for. IMO you are altering the program pretty good, and thats something I wouldn't do. Bands and chains are very important...

Lones Green
03-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Travis, I hate you, LOL

When I started that post no one had replied...took me awhile because I'm in the middle of eating a steak, LOL

Travis Bell
03-10-2009, 01:54 PM
hahaha if I weren't about to head to the gym, I'd throw a steak on the grill. Now you've got me hungry

lil' power
03-10-2009, 02:39 PM
Travis, I hate you, LOL

When I started that post no one had replied...took me awhile because I'm in the middle of eating a steak, LOL

I found that entertaining dialogue and matching up both of your answers... young jedi learns well from yoda ....:thumbup:

HP666
03-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Great post and great replies.

Fighter_15
03-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I'll post back here if I have anymore questions.

evilxxx
03-10-2009, 05:42 PM
Now you guys got me interested into making a sled...

MarcusWild
03-10-2009, 06:01 PM
We got a 70 lbs off road tire and turned it into a sled. You can sort of see it at the end of this video at the end if you want to skip to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIMEAzhJPi8

You can get tires for free. They love to give used tires away, since they have to pay to recycle them. You just have to drill a home through it and use a 2x4 on the back side to support the eye bolt. We over engineered it and used two eye bolts. You wear a loose belt and loop the rope through it.

Big o Boy
03-10-2009, 11:10 PM
Travis, I hate you, LOL

When I started that post no one had replied...took me awhile because I'm in the middle of eating a steak, LOL

lol. I'm always eating while on here. Nice!

Fighter_15
03-11-2009, 07:16 AM
Making a sled sounds pretty easy. I know a perfect spot I can go to get a tire to.

Fighter_15
03-11-2009, 07:21 AM
Lordy, lets see.
WSBB is for those looking to get strong. You might look into finding a PL gym close to you and training there, they might have some of the equipment you are looking for. IMO you are altering the program pretty good, and thats something I wouldn't do. Bands and chains are very important...

There aren't any gyms close enough to me which sucks. Other than not having bands and chains I'm not altering it to bad am I?

AdamBAG
03-11-2009, 07:40 AM
There aren't any gyms close enough to me which sucks. Other than not having bands and chains I'm not altering it to bad am I?

You'll be fine without the bands and chains. You can make great progress without them and then add them in later when you can.

vdizenzo
03-11-2009, 08:07 AM
I am a fan of Westside, but I will give my .02. I think it lacks overhead and bicep work. I think straight bar curls are very important so you don't lose bicep flexibility and strength which lead to bicep tears (I tore mine). I also think direct overhead work is very important to keep shoulders strong and healthy. jmho

Brian C
03-11-2009, 10:02 AM
I am a fan of Westside, but I will give my .02. I think it lacks overhead and bicep work. I think straight bar curls are very important so you don't lose bicep flexibility and strength which lead to bicep tears (I tore mine). I also think direct overhead work is very important to keep shoulders strong and healthy. jmho

I agree needing both overhead and bicep work, but I would stay away from too much bar work for biceps due to the increased chance of elbow tendinitis between those and heavy benching. Im all for added overhead presses or military presses. I definitely think keeping them in my routines has helped my overall strength without over training.

Fighter_15
03-11-2009, 10:53 AM
I agree needing both overhead and bicep work, but I would stay away from too much bar work for biceps due to the increased chance of elbow tendinitis between those and heavy benching. Im all for added overhead presses or military presses. I definitely think keeping them in my routines has helped my overall strength without over training.

Those are very good points. I plan on adding in a shoulder/bicep day.

Lones Green
03-11-2009, 01:13 PM
Those are very good points. I plan on adding in a shoulder/bicep day.

Be careful, with all that work you should be pretty tired. You might not want to push it at the beginning. I would not add this day, but if its what you feel you should do, give it a little time.

Fighter_15
03-11-2009, 02:39 PM
Be careful, with all that work you should be pretty tired. You might not want to push it at the beginning. I would not add this day, but if its what you feel you should do, give it a little time.

Yea that's a good point. I don't want to over train.

Dingus
03-11-2009, 09:23 PM
Yea that's a good point. I don't want to over train.

You don't need to add a whole day, I would do military presses on your lighter bench day and then do a barbell bicep exercise one bench day then a dumbbell one the other day.

Travis Bell
03-11-2009, 09:33 PM
I really wouldn't recommend any of that (with respect)

Keep it simple. You're very new. Stick to the basic template and move on later when you decide what you can manipulate and what you can't and have developed more experience.

If you over complicate it right now, you're going to just confuse and frustrate yourself.

The workouts you listed above are pefect IMO.

Fighter_15
03-12-2009, 07:26 AM
I really wouldn't recommend any of that (with respect)

Keep it simple. You're very new. Stick to the basic template and move on later when you decide what you can manipulate and what you can't and have developed more experience.

If you over complicate it right now, you're going to just confuse and frustrate yourself.

The workouts you listed above are pefect IMO.

Alright. Sounds good.

KarstenDD
03-12-2009, 12:55 PM
- You can make the boards out of 2x4 or 4x4 wood, doesn't matter what kind. Just cut it into whatever lengths you like and nail them together


Look up how to make boards. If it says it in the book, please refer back to that instead of being lazy. 2 x 4's work, 2 x 6's work.

Use 2x6s. 2x4s are too narrow. 4x4s would just be weird, narrow and a 2 board would = a 1 board. They would be heavy too. 18 or so inches long is a pretty standard length. But just nail, screw, duct tape or do what ever to keep them together.

Donnajo
03-12-2009, 02:04 PM
Leg raises...just do them. I like hanging.


Ummm....You like hanging.......since when? :p:moon::hide:

Fighter_15
03-12-2009, 02:46 PM
Use 2x6s. 2x4s are too narrow. 4x4s would just be weird, narrow and a 2 board would = a 1 board. They would be heavy too. 18 or so inches long is a pretty standard length. But just nail, screw, duct tape or do what ever to keep them together.

I planned on making them this weekend, thanks.

I was thinking about changing my split to these days.

MONDAY - ME DL OR SQUAT DAY
TUESDAY - ME BENCH DAY
WEDNESDAY - OFF
THURSDAY - DE SQUAT/DL DAY
FRIDAY - DE BENCH DAY
SATURDAY - OFF
SUNDAY - OFF

Does that sound good? Or is it much better if I have a day in between my ME days and DE days?

KarstenDD
03-12-2009, 05:42 PM
Use 2x6s. 2x4s are too narrow. 4x4s would just be weird, narrow and a 2 board would = a 1 board. They would be heavy too. 18 or so inches long is a pretty standard length. But just nail, screw, duct tape or do what ever to keep them together.

I should have said 15 inches. I didn't want to edit my original post so this wouldn't get lost in the depths of this thread.

slashkills
03-12-2009, 06:16 PM
I planned on making them this weekend, thanks.

I was thinking about changing my split to these days.

MONDAY - ME DL OR SQUAT DAY
TUESDAY - ME BENCH DAY
WEDNESDAY - OFF
THURSDAY - DE SQUAT/DL DAY
FRIDAY - DE BENCH DAY
SATURDAY - OFF
SUNDAY - OFF

Does that sound good? Or is it much better if I have a day in between my ME days and DE days?

Its better to have a day off between your max effort and DE days. Your going to have two back to back days of training every week but its better if one of them is a DE day.

Erik2003
03-12-2009, 06:47 PM
[QUOTE=lonesXedge;2103654]Lordy, lets see.

There is nothing that can replace a reverse hyper. Try jerry rigging something with a cable, but other than that I'd just do a hamstring movement + a low back movement.




As a substitute for Reverse Hypers, I would use the Preacher curl. Lean over it. Hold onto the seat and hips over the arm rest. Just hold on and lift your legs. With minibands and other bands you can add resistence.

Hell, its better than nothing. Besides after you do it in the gym, others will follow.

Fighter_15
03-13-2009, 07:36 AM
Its better to have a day off between your max effort and DE days. Your going to have two back to back days of training every week but its better if one of them is a DE day.

Yea that's a good point. I wanted to take the weekend off because I work saturdays and I usually go out saturday nights and i didn't want to workout on sunday. I'll figure something out though.




There is nothing that can replace a reverse hyper. Try jerry rigging something with a cable, but other than that I'd just do a hamstring movement + a low back movement.


As a substitute for Reverse Hypers, I would use the Preacher curl. Lean over it. Hold onto the seat and hips over the arm rest. Just hold on and lift your legs. With minibands and other bands you can add resistence.

Hell, its better than nothing. Besides after you do it in the gym, others will follow.

Ok, I'll do these when I order some bands.

Fighter_15
03-15-2009, 11:03 AM
I was looking over my workout and what I read in the book is confusing me. Do I really do ME SQUAT one week and ME Deadlift on the same day the next week? So I do ME SQUAT and ME Deadlift only once every 2 weeks?

Lones Green
03-15-2009, 11:12 AM
I was looking over my workout and what I read in the book is confusing me. Do I really do ME SQUAT one week and ME Deadlift on the same day the next week? So I do ME SQUAT and ME Deadlift only once every 2 weeks?

Its called the conjugate method...

Fighter_15
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Its called the conjugate method...

It seems weird taking that much time off, but I was just making sure I was reading it right.

Fighter_15
03-16-2009, 05:25 PM
Well I had my first workout it went alright. This is the weights I did.

ME Deadlift
2x5@135
1x3@185
1x2@225
1x1@275
1x1@295
1x1@315
1x1@365
1x1@385-Failed

Glute Ham Raises
1x8 with no weight
1x8@30 behind my neck
1x8@30 behind my neck
1x8@30 behind my neck

Weighted Leg Raises
1x10@20
1x10@25
1x10@35

Leg Curls
1x15@50 - Was to heavy
1x15@20 - To Light
1x15@30 - Felt just right

Neck Extensions 2x20

Comments? Criticism? Concerns?

Pete22
03-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Not bad man. One thing I would recommend, and I am guilty of this, is to try not to fail or make a habit of failing at your ME attempts. You should get better at that the more experience you get with max effort attempts. Also, 315 to 365 is a pretty big jump. You want to get about 2-5 lifts in at 90% or above, so I would recommend smaller jumps (ex. 315, 335, 355, 365/375).

MarcusWild
03-16-2009, 05:52 PM
I try to stick to what Louie writes about 3 lifts at 90% or above. For you, that'd be 3 lifts at 330 or above. I'm not sure how you handle it when you jump too quickly and don't get 3. Usually, I go back down to just over 90% of the last lift I made and do 1-2 singles to get the 3 above 90%. Plan on smaller jumps towards the end next time. I'm curious what Travis says about doing drop sets vs. just moving onto the next exercise if you don't get 3 over 90%.

Lones Green
03-16-2009, 06:13 PM
You might check your form on the GHR's. They shouldn't be that easy...

Travis Bell
03-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Lones is right, that's a good amount of weight for the first time. I'd be surprised if you were doing them right.

Pete's advice about not failing is good as well

Fighter_15
03-16-2009, 06:28 PM
I did them like this.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBGluteHamRaise.html

Fighter_15
03-18-2009, 07:33 AM
I did my ME BENCH this morning. It went like this.

2 Board Press

10 reps w/bar
2 setsx5@95lbs
1 set x3@135lbs
1 set x2@185lbs
Added boards here
1 setx1@225lbs
1 setx1@255lbs
1 setx1@285lbs
1 setx1@300lbs
1 setx1@315lbs
1 setx1@325lbs
I stopped here. I think I could have gotten more weight but I didn't think I should do anymore sets.

4 Board Press

1 setx5@135
1 setx5@185
1 setx5@225
1 setx5@255
1 setx5@285
1 setx5@300
1 setx4@315 - I only got 4 here so I decided to stop.

Elbow Out Extensions - These were kind of easy. I should have done more weight or at least 50 for all three sets but I have never done them before so I just started with 30 and went up from there.

1 setx15@30
1 setx15@40
1 setx15@50

Chest Supported Rows

1 setx10@90
1 setx10@100
1 setx10@100

Face Pulls

1 setx15@40lbs
1 setx15@50lbs
1 setx15@60lbs

Questions/Comments/Concerns?

Pete22
03-18-2009, 07:47 AM
Very nice man, what a typical ME bench session should look like. I would just say to keep working up with triples, and then drop down to singles when it gets heavy (you'll know when). So 225 x 3, 255 x 3, then possibly start hitting singles.

Lones Green
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
I did them like this.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBGluteHamRaise.html

I understand how to do them. Keep your knees WAY up on the pad, it should make them nearly impossible. It should feeling like your hamstrings about to rip off the bone

MarcusWild
03-18-2009, 10:59 AM
I like the ME bench workout. Next time you can probably start heavier on the 4-bd, since you're already warmed up from benching. There's no point in tiring yourself out with a bunch of warmup sets.

Fighter_15
03-18-2009, 11:23 AM
I understand how to do them. Keep your knees WAY up on the pad, it should make them nearly impossible. It should feeling like your hamstrings about to rip off the bone

Alright, I'll do that next time.


I like the ME bench workout. Next time you can probably start heavier on the 4-bd, since you're already warmed up from benching. There's no point in tiring yourself out with a bunch of warmup sets.

Yea that popped into my head when I was lifting. I figured I didn't need to do all the warm up sets over again but I just did them anyway. I won't next time.

For next week though, is it ok if I do this same ME bench workout over again?

Also, I want to get some powerlifting bands but I want to avoid ordering them online if I can. Are there any sport stores that anyone knows about that sells them?

MarcusWild
03-18-2009, 12:05 PM
I think it's best to rotate every week. I think the problem newer people have with that is the constant awkwardness of new exercises. You aren't limited by strength as much as coordination. When you do an exercise a few times, you automatically get better because your body gets more coordinated at the movement. So someone with less experience can repeat new exercises and PR the second week. I still think you should rotate every week though.

When I was starting out with rotating ME lifts, I'd have a rough idea of what ME exercises I wanted to do in the future. Then I'd rotate them in with lighter weight as an accessory movement first. That way I could get comfortable with the movement. Once I used it a few times as an accessory, then I'd put it into the ME rotation. I'm not sure how smart/safe it is for someone that's newer to lifting to max on an exercise they've never done.

Fighter_15
03-18-2009, 02:24 PM
What ME exercise should I alternate in for bench press then? It says in the book bench with mini bands but I don't have mini bands. What are some other good ME bench exercises?

Pete22
03-18-2009, 02:40 PM
What are some other good ME bench exercises?

Incline bench, close-grip bench, floor press, 3-board bench.

MarcusWild
03-18-2009, 03:25 PM
You have 3-4 grips you can use: comp, pinkies in rings, thumb from smooth, and touching smooth. I'd stick between full ROM and 2-bd for raw. That's 12-16 variations right there. Pick the ones that make the most sense based on your weaknesses. I'd say pick the best 5-6 and rotate them. You want a logical order so each week build on the previous week.

Fighter_15
03-18-2009, 03:51 PM
I think I'm going to cycle the workout I did today, then I'll do 3 board presses next week, and floor presses the next week. Then go back to the workout I did today. How does that sound? I'm doing close grip presses on my DE day so I don't think I want to rotate those in.

Lones Green
03-18-2009, 03:55 PM
I think I'm going to cycle the workout I did today, then I'll do 3 board presses next week, and floor presses the next week. Then go back to the workout I did today. How does that sound? I'm doing close grip presses on my DE day so I don't think I want to rotate those in.

It doesn't really matter how we think it sounds, how do you think it sounds? Are you picking movements that are going to help with your weaknesses?

Travis Bell
03-18-2009, 04:11 PM
I think I'm going to cycle the workout I did today, then I'll do 3 board presses next week, and floor presses the next week. Then go back to the workout I did today. How does that sound? I'm doing close grip presses on my DE day so I don't think I want to rotate those in.

That should work fine. Try it and then come back and see where you're at. If it worked, great. If it didn't, go back and figure out what you picked that went wrong

Fighter_15
03-20-2009, 07:30 AM
Did another workout today. It was my DE Leg day.

Box Squats 8x2 @50% + Chains

1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains
1x2@165lbs+Chains

Speed Deadlifts 6x1@60%

1x1@225
1x1@225
1x1@225
1x1@225
1x1@225
1x1@225

Glute Ham Raises 5x8

1x8@0
1x8@0
1x8@0
1x8@0
1x8@0

Sled Work 3 Trips with 35 lbs

Abs

I had no idea how much weight to use for the sled. The book said 2-3 trips with light weight and I had no idea how much "light" weight is.

Fighter_15
03-21-2009, 05:01 PM
Saturday

DE BENCH DAY

Bench Press 10x3x35%

1x3@115 Index On smooth
1x3@115 Index On smooth
1x3@115 Index On smooth
1x3@115 Index thumb length from smooth
1x3@115 Index thumb length from smooth
1x3@115 Index thumb length from smooth
1x3@115 Index pinkie on ring
1x3@115 Index pinkie on ring
1x3@115 Index pinkie on ring
1x3@115 Index pinkie on ring

Close Grip Press 5x5 - These were pretty hard and hurt my wrists. Probably because I haven't really ever done them before

1x5@205
1x5@205
1x5@205
1x5@205
1x5@205

Elbow Out Extensions 2x20

1x20@40
1x20@40

Hammer Curls 2x20
1x20@30
1x20@35

Reverse Hypers 2 sets for 25-30 reps

Abs

I asked this questions earlier but I don't think anyone saw it. Are there any sporting good stores anyone knows off hand that sell bands?

Travis Bell
03-21-2009, 05:30 PM
No. You won't find bands in a store. You can find them off www.elitefts.com

If you want to keep posting your workouts it'd be better to start a log in the Members Online Journals section

Fighter_15
03-22-2009, 07:57 PM
I'm going to start a journal there I just wanted you guys to oversee my first few workouts. I'm going to order some bands. Should I get mini bands or monster mini's for benching?

Travis Bell
03-22-2009, 08:01 PM
mini's to start

slashkills
03-22-2009, 08:03 PM
I would order both if money allows it. You could use the bands for anything. Squat, deadlift, or bench, bands are great tools to have. If you only want to order one set for bench i would order the smallest size possible. You can always double them up or adjust tension later.

Fighter_15
03-22-2009, 08:06 PM
Also for benching I'm not exactly sure how you use them. Could you guys tell me? Or does anyone have a video that shows?