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pablonba
03-16-2009, 09:25 PM
I think maybe you've answered this before, but my mom is a doctor and when she saw me drinkin 1/2 gallon milk per day, she said "you can only drink 750ml of milk per day; otherwise, you'll have calcification in your kidneys and heart and blabla...". She sounded very dramatic, but maybe in 20 years we'll be suffering this terribles diseases...
What do you guys think? I need bodybuilders opinion!

Thanks in advance.

Holto
03-16-2009, 11:49 PM
If you're looking for anecdotal evidence, I'm sure many bro's here can chime in. I've drank a gallon/day for years consecutively. The whey protein we eat has loads of calcium. So do potatoes etc.

Mercuryblade
03-17-2009, 12:04 AM
I think maybe you've answered this before, but my mom is a doctor and when she saw me drinkin 1/2 gallon milk per day, she said "you can only drink 750ml of milk per day; otherwise, you'll have calcification in your kidneys and heart and blabla...". She sounded very dramatic, but maybe in 20 years we'll be suffering this terribles diseases...
What do you guys think? I need bodybuilders opinion!

Thanks in advance.

What kind of doc is your mom?

"Is there a health risk of too much calcium?

The Tolerable Upper Limit (UL) is the highest level of daily intake of calcium from food, water and supplements that is likely to pose no risks of adverse health effects to almost all individuals in the general population [2]. The UL for children and adults ages 1 year and older (including pregnant and lactating women) is 2500 mg/day. It was not possible to establish a UL for infants under the age of 1 year.

While low intakes of calcium can result in deficiency and undesirable health conditions, excessively high intakes of calcium can also have adverse effects. Adverse conditions associated with high calcium intakes are hypercalcemia (elevated levels of calcium in the blood), impaired kidney function and decreased absorption of other minerals [2]. Hypercalcemia can also result from excess intake of vitamin D, such as from supplement overuse at levels of 50,000 IU or higher [1]. However, hypercalcemia from diet and supplements is very rare. Most cases of hypercalcemia occur as a result of malignancy - especially in the advanced stages.

Another concern with high calcium intakes is the potential for calcium to interfere with the absorption of other minerals, iron, zinc, magnesium, and phosphorus [108-111].

Most Americans should consider their intake of calcium from all foods including fortified ones before adding supplements to their diet to help avoid the risk of reaching levels at or near the UL for calcium (2500 mg). If you need additional assistance regarding your calcium needs, consider checking with a physician or registered dietitian.
"
Source <http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/calcium.asp>

VikingWarlord
03-17-2009, 05:07 AM
It's been my experience that doctors know **** all about nutrition and especially sports nutrition. There are some now and again but most of them are way behind the times and still think the food pyramid is the way to go.

J.C.
03-17-2009, 06:50 AM
Can someone who really knows there stuff give me some extra info on the possible negative effects of large amounts of milk? I still don't feel like I've got my head fully wrapped around the issue.

I have read some of the "drink beer, not milk it's teh evil" stuff before but some more level-headed opinions would be helpful.
My understanding of the matter is:

- High fat and cholesterol in whole milk - dietary cholesterol does not necessarily affect blood cholesterol, and is mitigated by exercise anyway.
- Many people are lactose-intolerant and find it difficult to digest milk. We as a species were not meant to drink cows milk. - I'm not. I don't. Northern Europeans have lived alongside cattle and drunk dairy milk as a crucial part of their diet for millions of years. Lactose intolerance is considerably higher in Asian populations because of a different evolutionary heritage. If you're of European Stock and have no problems then drinking milk is perfectly natural.
- Increases mucous. Just drink less when you have a cold.
- Too much calcium. Dealt with by Mercuryblade (although you didn't actually state how much calcium would be consumed in a gallon of milk).

What have I missed? Why else is it supposedly bad for you?

Auburn
03-17-2009, 07:02 AM
The calcium isn't the issue, it's the other factors responsible for calcium deposition and shuttling that are at fault. Vitamins A/D/K all come together in a balancing act, and should be supplemented if not taken in sufficient quantities from food/sun.

Still, milk intake (particularly skim) correlates to higher levels of autoimmune disorders. Maybe means something, maybe not. And in any type of diseased state (cancer), you definitely don't want anything designed to help an organism grow in your system.

Pimpstick
03-17-2009, 07:19 AM
Can someone who really knows there stuff give me some extra info on the possible negative effects of large amounts of milk? I still don't feel like I've got my head fully wrapped around the issue.

I have read some of the "drink beer, not milk it's teh evil" stuff before but some more level-headed opinions would be helpful.
My understanding of the matter is:

- High fat and cholesterol in whole milk - dietary cholesterol does not necessarily affect blood cholesterol, and is mitigated by exercise anyway.
- Many people are lactose-intolerant and find it difficult to digest milk. We as a species were not meant to drink cows milk. - I'm not. I don't. Northern Europeans have lived alongside cattle and drunk dairy milk as a crucial part of their diet for millions of years. Lactose intolerance is considerably higher in Asian populations because of a different evolutionary heritage. If you're of European Stock and have no problems then drinking milk is perfectly natural.
- Increases mucous. Just drink less when you have a cold.
- Too much calcium. Dealt with by Mercuryblade (although you didn't actually state how much calcium would be consumed in a gallon of milk).

What have I missed? Why else is it supposedly bad for you?

You've missed a lot.

We haven't domesticated animals for millions of years for one.
It's not bad for you when you're sick.
Mercury is lactose intolerant, that has nothing to do with calcium.

Milk is not bad in large quantities, drink up.

pablonba
03-17-2009, 11:52 AM
Milk is not bad in large quantities, drink up.

You sure??
How do you know??

I'd love to drink 1/2 gallon per day, but there is this thing round my head "be careful"...

J.C.
03-17-2009, 02:22 PM
You've missed a lot.
Well then tell me what I've missed out on. I was wanting to understand the issue better because I only know the basic arguments which I set out.


We haven't domesticated animals for millions of years for one.
We haven't domesticated animals for millions of years no, that's not what I said. There was something called "nomadic living" beforehand. Living alongside the herds. We have domesticated herds for about 10,000 years. Anyway, the length of time is mostly irrelevant as long its realised that the European genetics have been altered to perfectly accommodate dairy whereas in other populations they haven't.


It's not bad for you when you're sick.
Milk does cause increased mucus. I didn't say it was "bad" for you when sick, just that if you have a runny nose and are coughing up lots of mucus you may want to lay off. Although Auburn makes the point that milk may weaken the immune system. Didn't know that. Is it true?


Mercury is lactose intolerant, that has nothing to do with calcium.
This comment makes no sense in relation to anything I said or he said. His post was about calcium, my comment was about calcium. One of the reasons for milk supposedly being bad for you was that you may get too much calcium. He disproved this with a scientific paper. Again, I really don't know what your point is.


Milk is not bad in large quantities, drink up.

Would you care to say why?
For what its worth, I agree with you and I'm typing this while finishing my fourth pint of whole milk today. But I want to know why exactly. So that if anybody questions my milk consumption I can go over all the arguments. Just like the OP would like to do.

Your post adds very little at all.

OXplode
03-17-2009, 03:11 PM
I believe it is true. I asked this question a few days ago to view other opinions but not much came out of it. I think it mainly only applies if you dont have your RDA of another nutrient, I think magnesium, dont take my word for it though. Which helps regulate calcium levels.
Your mum is a doctor so yeah her opinion is worth more than ours, but you will have to ask nutritionist for a detailed explanation. If your like me, you will need to know and understand atleast the basic science behind it, to change your ways. Its just that there is soo much bull out there. I do however think this is an exception.

Well too much of anything will kill you

Big Jay
03-17-2009, 03:25 PM
i drink a gallon a day.
does anyone actually know someone that is having health problems because they drink alot of milk everyday? This forum is a bottomless pool of anecdotes, so if no one has any regarding a doctor telling someone he's ****ed because he drank too much milk.... i wouldn't worry about the issue. Probably have a better chance of choking to death on your steak.

Pimpstick
03-17-2009, 03:36 PM
Drummer,

When something is generally accepted to be okay, the burden of proof lies on you to come up with why it is not.

Milk contains nothing that is bad for you (besides lactose for some). Why would it be harmful in large quantities? Plus the large quantities we are discussing really aren't that large.

If you want to go on a science scavenger hunt through pubmed, be my guest. But I think it's safe to say that milk won't kill you, even if you drink a lot.

Instead of pointing out that my post added little value (which I admit it did), why not do some of your own research? When I have questions, I first try to go find my own answers.

Tom Mutaffis
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
From Wikipedia:

Medical research

Studies show possible links between low-fat milk consumption and reduced risk of arterial hypertension, coronary heart disease, colorectal cancer and obesity. Overweight individuals who drink milk may benefit from decreased risk of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.[25] One study has shown that for women desiring to have a child, those who consume full fat dairy products may actually slightly increase their fertility, while those consuming low fat dairy products may slightly reduce their fertility due to interference with ovulation. However, studies in this area are still inconsistent.[26] Milk is a source of Conjugated linoleic acid, a fatty acid that inhibits several types of cancer in mice.[citation needed] CLA has been shown to kill human skin cancer, colorectal cancer and breast cancer cells in vitro studies, and may help lower cholesterol and prevent atherosclerosis; CLA is present only in milk from grass-fed cows.[citation needed]


Controversy

Other studies suggest that milk consumption may increase the risk of suffering from certain health problems. Cow milk allergy (CMA) is as an immunologically mediated adverse reaction to one or more cow milk proteins. Rarely is it severe enough to cause death.[27] Milk contains casein, a substance that breaks down in the human stomach to produce casomorphin, an opioid peptide. In the early 1990s it was hypothesized that casomorphin can cause or aggravate autism,[28][29] and casein-free diets are widely promoted. Studies supporting these claims have had significant flaws, and the data are inadequate to guide autism treatment recommendations.[29] Studies described in the book The China Study note a correlation between casein intake and the promotion of cancer cell growth when exposed to carcinogens. However other studies have shown whey protein offers a protective effect against colon cancer. [30]

A study demonstrated that men, and to some degree women, who drink a large amount of milk and consume dairy products were at a slightly increased risk of developing Parkinson's disease.[31] The reason behind this is not fully understood, and it also remains unclear why there is less of a risk for women.[31][32] Several sources suggest a correlation between high calcium intake (2000 mg per day, or twice the US recommended daily allowance, equivalent to six or more glasses of milk per day) and prostate cancer.[33] A large study specifically implicates dairy, i.e., low-fat milk and other dairy to which vitamin A palmitate has been added.[34][35] A review published by the World Cancer Research Fund and the American Institute for Cancer Research states that at least eleven human population studies have linked excessive dairy product consumption and prostate cancer,[36] however randomized clinical trial data with appropriate controls only exists for calcium, not dairy produce, where there was no correlation.[37] Medical studies have also shown a possible link between milk consumption and the exacerbation of diseases such as Crohn’s Disease,[38] Hirschsprung's disease–mimicking symptoms in babies with existing cow milk allergies,[39] severe gastroesophageal reflux disease in infants and children hypersenstitive to milk,[citation needed] and the aggravation of Behçet's disease.[40]

Since November 1993, with FDA approval, Monsanto has been selling recombinant bovine somatotropin (rbST)--or rBGH--to dairy farmers. Additional bovine growth hormone is administered to cattle in order to increase their milk production, though the hormone also naturally fosters liver production of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF1). The deposit thereof in the milk of rBGH-affected cattle has been the source of concern; however, all milk contains IGF1 since all milking cows produce bovine growth hormone naturally. The IGF1 in milk from rBGH-affected cattle does not vary from the range normally found in a non-supplemented cow.[41] Elevated levels of IGF1 in human blood has been linked to increased rates of breast, colon, and prostate cancer by stimulating their growth,[42][43] though this has not been linked to milk consumption. The EU has recommended against Monsanto milk.[44] In addition, the cows receiving rBGH supplements may more frequently contract an udder infection known as mastitis.[45] Milk from rBGH-affected cattle is banned in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan due to the mastitis problems. On June 9, 2006 the largest milk processor in the world and the two largest supermarkets in the United States--Dean Foods, Wal-Mart, and Kroger--announced that they are "on a nationwide search for rBGH-free milk."[46] No study has indicated that consumption of rBST-produced milk increases IGF1 levels, nor has any study demonstrated an increased risk of any disease between those consuming rBST and non-rBST produced milk. In 1994, the FDA stated that no significant difference has been shown between milk derived from rBST-treated and that from non-rBST-treated cows.[47]

Milk may contain varying levels of white blood cells depending upon the health of the source animals, according to guidelines set up by the Food and Drug Administration and statistics reported by the dairy industry.[48][49] Although not considered a human health issue by most authorities, elevated white blood cell levels indicate an immune response by cattle, which could be due in part to mastitis.[48] There are concerns regarding the transmission of bovine paratubeculosis through somatic cells to humans,[50] but the evidence is largely inconclusive.