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mcdonough9395
03-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Ok so im home this week for spring break so i figured id take advantage of all the good food here at home and eat as much as possible. When my mom saw how much meat, fish, chicken, eggs, milk, shakes and so on i was eating she tells me ... "make sure your not eating too much protien ... too much protien isent good." Now i know getting too much milk and cheese and such can cause calcium build ups and cause kidney stones if you dont drink enough water. However outside of that is there any truth to eating TOO much protien? I doubt she has any idea what shes talking about but was just wonder if there was any truth behind this?

CASH
03-18-2009, 10:10 PM
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure there is no "risk" involved with getting too much protien. I think the key is not having too much in one sitting because the body can only process about 40-50 g at once.

Mercuryblade
03-18-2009, 10:57 PM
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure there is no "risk" involved with getting too much protien. I think the key is not having too much in one sitting because the body can only process about 40-50 g at once.

How much you can actually absorb is dependent on the person, but it is much higher than that.
As far as "too much protein" if you aren't drinking enough water you can really do a number on your kidneys. But if you are keeping yourself well hydrated you have nothing to worry about.

Tykimeister
03-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Your mom was probably concerned about your choleserol levels and not eating all that "meat". My mother sais the same thing when i go through 2 dozen eggs a week.

Like Mercury said, if you eat too much protein at once your body wont absorb it all. That is why Ronnie and Jay eat 6-7 times a day. The idea isn't to eat eat eat as in make yourself stuffed. Eat eat eat is supposed to mean don't ever feel hungry. The more times you eat throughout the day (small meals) the faster your metabolism will be. When you feel hungry its a good idea to eat so your body doesn't take nutrients from your muscles when you think it will be taken from your fat storage. If you want to eat all this protein I would suggest only eating 12-16 ounces at a time.

Pimpstick
03-19-2009, 08:13 AM
Your mom was probably concerned about your choleserol levels and not eating all that "meat". My mother sais the same thing when i go through 2 dozen eggs a week.

Like Mercury said, if you eat too much protein at once your body wont absorb it all. That is why Ronnie and Jay eat 6-7 times a day. The idea isn't to eat eat eat as in make yourself stuffed. Eat eat eat is supposed to mean don't ever feel hungry. The more times you eat throughout the day (small meals) the faster your metabolism will be. When you feel hungry its a good idea to eat so your body doesn't take nutrients from your muscles when you think it will be taken from your fat storage. If you want to eat all this protein I would suggest only eating 12-16 ounces at a time.

Mercury did not say that, you said it. And you're pretty much dead wrong.

VikingWarlord
03-19-2009, 08:49 AM
Mercury did not say that, you said it. And you're pretty much dead wrong.

Yup. Someone needs to work on reading comprehension.

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't think so. You can eat all the meat you want, but your body doesn't have enough amino acids to break down more than 50g of protein. Take a nutrition classa and maybe you'll learn something.

Pimpstick
03-19-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't think so. You can eat all the meat you want, but your body doesn't have enough amino acids to break down more than 50g of protein. Take a nutrition classa and maybe you'll learn something.

Use the search function before hopping on the failboat and embarking on a trip to flametown.

VikingWarlord
03-19-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't think so. You can eat all the meat you want, but your body doesn't have enough amino acids to break down more than 50g of protein. Take a nutrition classa and maybe you'll learn something.

Yeah. You just lost just about all of whatever credibility you might have had.

Here's the simple answer and then I'm backing out of what will turn into a newbie barbecue. There are different types of protein. Each type breaks down at a different rate. Beside that, a 100lb girl and a 350lb powerlifter are going to have different requirements and biochemical and metabolic needs.

Ergo, it is impossible to make a claim such as yours and have it make any kind of sense.

Also, amino acids are the result of protein metabolism, not the cause.

mcdonough9395
03-19-2009, 11:59 AM
Thanks for all the responses guys. I didnt mean to bring up the whole how much protien can the body breakdown at once dispute again haha

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 12:19 PM
Then what do you suspect will happen when you have too much protein in your diet and not enough amino acids to attach to them? They would be stored as fat or blown right out your ass. Hence why you should eat smaller amouts throughout the day; much like I said earlier.

VikingWarlord
03-19-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm just not even going to continue. This horse has been not only beaten but shot, stabbed, hung, drawn, quartered, crucified, sandblasted, electrocuted, and then beaten again.

If you really want to know why you're wrong, search around for the numerous other threads on meal frequency and protein absorption.

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 12:28 PM
So just search for how to kill a horse, right?

cphafner
03-19-2009, 12:34 PM
Then what do you suspect will happen when you have too much protein in your diet and not enough amino acids to attach to them?

If you are going to make statements like this please back it up. Post a link to something that proves this.

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 12:38 PM
I don't have a link because it's straight from my text book I use for class. Understanding Nurition 11 ed. Ellie Whitney and Sharon Rody Rolfes

cphafner
03-19-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't have a link because it's straight from my text book I use for class. Understanding Nurition 11 ed. Ellie Whitney and Sharon Rody Rolfes

Then summarize what it says. They claim you need amino acids (there are over 20 different kinds) to absorb protein? Protein is make up of aminos. Why would you need aminos to digest protein? Any particular amino they are claiming? A complete protein (like Viking said) is going to have most of the aminos and will have a high absorption rate.

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm just saying that your body only has so many amino acids available to form protein chains. When the OP mentioned they eat large quantities of protein in short periods of time I concluded that his meals probably should be spread out. Otherwise, there may not be enough amino acids to utilize all the protein being eaten. I don't understand why Mr. Bulky nutts had to make this all technical. I simply suggested that his large meals be spread out throughout the day to ensure his GI would have enough amino acids to put all the protein to good use.

Tykimeister
03-19-2009, 12:58 PM
When I say amino acids putting protein to good use I mean making sure there are enough of the right amino acids to make a complete protein.

Pimpstick
03-19-2009, 01:00 PM
When I say amino acids putting protein to good use I mean making sure there are enough of the right amino acids to make a complete protein.

I don't think you understand what amino acids are, and what their function is. Maybe you should pay better attention in class.

and the second part of that statement is completely different than the first, but it doesn't matter because both are incorrect.

cphafner
03-19-2009, 01:05 PM
When I say amino acids putting protein to good use I mean making sure there are enough of the right amino acids to make a complete protein.

Wouldn't a complete protein by definition have the necessary aminos?

mike95763
03-19-2009, 01:07 PM
Mr. Tykimeister, I am afraid that you are going to fail whatever nutrition class you are taking. You have digestion and protein synthesis all confused. Your body digests proteins using various proteases to give peptides and free amino acids. In some instances your body uses amino acids and peptides to create proteins i.e. to build muscle or enzymes, etc. I think that you really need to study your biochemistry a little bit more before you tell anyone about what you think you are learning in class.

Mercuryblade
03-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Mr. Tykimeister, I am afraid that you are going to fail whatever nutrition class you are taking. You have digestion and protein synthesis all confused. Your body digests proteins using various proteases to give peptides and free amino acids. In some instances your body uses amino acids and peptides to create proteins i.e. to build muscle or enzymes, etc. I think that you really need to study your biochemistry a little bit more before you tell anyone about what you think you are learning in class.

I'd reiterate on this but you pretty much nailed it.

OXplode
03-19-2009, 04:11 PM
lol people on this forum always just take to VikingwarLord side anyway, who just always disagrees and causes arguments in just about every ****ing post. Also a hypercritical as not giving evidence. So far its warlord word against Tykimeister word and thats all it is. Word. No evidence at all to back up your sayings, I might aswell just ask a med students opinion.

Mercuryblade
03-19-2009, 04:25 PM
Also a hypercritical as not giving evidence.

:scratch:

VikingWarlord
03-19-2009, 05:02 PM
lol people on this forum always just take to VikingwarLord side anyway, who just always disagrees and causes arguments in just about every ****ing post. Also a hypercritical as not giving evidence. So far its warlord word against Tykimeister word and thats all it is. Word. No evidence at all to back up your sayings, I might aswell just ask a med students opinion.

I state my disagreement with things that aren't correct.

The burden of proof is on someone making a claim. Med students don't have any idea about any of this stuff because they don't cover it. I know this because I have a few friends in med school that still ask me for information on diet.

There are too many variables to be able to say that the body can only process X amount of protein per sitting. There is surely going to be an upper limit but metabolic needs and individual biochemistry are going to cause that to be different for everyone. Like I said, do you really believe that a 100lb girl and a 350lb powerlifter are going to have the same metabolic needs?

I seriously doubt it.

The other huge giveaway that the idea is crap is the fact that nobody ever gives the same number for that upper limit twice. On this forum alone, I've seen people say 24g, 25g, 30g, 32g, 40g, 45g, and now 50g. On top of that, the time frame changes. Sometimes it's 2 hours or 3, 6, 24, or sometimes even "per sitting" which is indefinable as a time frame.

The other big problem that I had was that not a single thing he said about protein metabolism was correct. It's pretty easy to back up with just doing a simple search for the topic that's been covered over and over and over and over and over and...

liftingislife
03-19-2009, 05:07 PM
I was always under the impression that when you consume too much protein, you just poo is out.

- Greg Lumis :) http://smileyiconz.com/funnysmileygif2.jpg

Big Jay
03-19-2009, 05:23 PM
ffs not another 1 of these debates.
i doubt Ellie Whitney and Sharon Rody Rolfes knows or has ever studied how much protein a large man needs after a heavy sqaut session, instead of their advice i would listen to experienced lifters who have achieved much in their sport. those books are full of crap and even then its crap based on housewives and average joe.

evilxxx
03-19-2009, 09:43 PM
Just a little reading courtesy of the Harvard website...

What Is Protein?

Protein is found throughout the body—in muscle, bone, skin, hair, and virtually every other body part or tissue. It makes up the enzymes that power many chemical reactions and the hemoglobin that carries oxygen in your blood. At least 10,000 different proteins make you what you are and keep you that way.

Twenty or so basic building blocks, called amino acids, provide the raw material for all proteins. Following genetic instructions, the body strings together amino acids. Some genes call for short chains of amino acids, others are blueprints for long chains that fold, origami-like, into intricate, three-dimensional structures.

Because the body doesn't store amino acids, as it does fats or carbohydrates, it needs a daily supply of amino acids to make new protein.

Songsangnim
03-19-2009, 09:47 PM
lol people on this forum always just take to VikingwarLord side anyway, who just always disagrees and causes arguments in just about every ****ing post. Also a hypercritical as not giving evidence. So far its warlord word against Tykimeister word and thats all it is. Word. No evidence at all to back up your sayings, I might aswell just ask a med students opinion.

It's mine as well (on the Warlord's side).

Seriously just think about this. Let us say that your maintenance level of calories (everyone knows what that is, right) is around 2000 calories (a nice round number) a day.

Let us also say that you take in 1000 calories a day of protein while the other 1000 comes from carbs and fat.

Is anyone seriously proposing that you would starve to death even though you are taking in enough calories to maintain all bodily functions because you can't process the protein?

The body absorbs based on need. It doesn't matter what is available protein, carbs or fat. It will take what it needs to use for fuel. Now whether it is efficient or healthy or whatnot is a whole other can of worms.

But to say that the body will only digest so much (some arbitrary level) is completely wrong. IT WILL DIGEST AND ABSORB WHAT IT NEEDS TO. Any EXTRA will be stored as fat.

As to problems with protein, most can be avoided simply by drinking enough water. Excessive protein can leach calcium from bones, but I would doubt that 99% of the people here are taking in enough protein to do that.

Now can we put this to bed? At least until next week when some person who just won't do some research revives this hoary old debate.

evilxxx
03-19-2009, 11:30 PM
So how much protein is too much to consume at one meal? It all depends, your body adapts so there is no such thing as 30 is the max or 50 is the max...The World Health Org got an almost 300 pg book of Info and research on Protein and amino acid consumption. How much is ok for you to consume at one meal depends on lots of things...Energy expenditure and Body mass being the top ones. If I sit here and explain all of it this will be the longest reply in the history of forums..LOL! its common sense too, if you consume 20 gram of protein on every meal and suddenly you are at 50 every meal, some will be wasted till your body adjust to the new change wish according to the WHO takes somewhere from 6-7 days...but it has taken some others with different diet variations 2-3 weeks.

Songsangnim
03-20-2009, 03:22 AM
Intake of protein more trhan the adequate quantity will not be beneficial as it can cause some disbalances in the body due to which you can face some problems.

And what is this "adequate quantity"?


Hint: "adequate" does not equal optimal

Jinty
03-21-2009, 11:59 AM
Some Abstracts for ya'.

Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Background: The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein. Objectives: We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS. Design: Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-13C] leucine. Results: MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr389), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser240/244), and the ε-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser539) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested. Conclusions: Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation. © 2009 American Society for Nutrition.


Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men
Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism
Whey protein is a supplemental protein source often used by athletes, particularly those aiming to gain muscle mass; however, direct evidence for its efficacy in stimulating muscle protein synthesis (MPS) is lacking. We aimed to determine the impact of consuming whey protein on skeletal muscle protein turnover in the post-exercise period. Eight healthy resistance-trained young men (age = 21 ± 1 .0 years; BMI = 26.8 ± 0.9 kg/m2 (means ± SE)) participated in a double-blind randomized crossover trial in which they performed a unilateral leg resistance exercise workout (EX: 4 sets of knee extensions and 4 sets of leg press; 8-10 repetitions/set; 80% of maximal), such that one leg was not exercised and acted as a rested (RE) comparator. After exercise, subjects consumed either an isoenergetic whey protein plus carbohydrate beverage (WHEY: 10 g protein and 21 g fructose) or a carbohydrate-only beverage (CHO: 21 g fructose and 10 g maltodextran). Subjects received pulse-tracer injections of L-[ring-2H5] phenylalanine and L-[15N]phenylalanine to measure MPS. Exercise stimulated a rise in MPS in the WHEY-EX and CHO-EX legs, which were greater than MPS in the WHEY-RE leg and the CHO-RE leg (all p < 0.05), respectively. The rate of MPS in the WHEY-EX leg was greater than in the CHOEX leg (p < 0.001). We conclude that a small dose (10 g) of whey protein with carbohydrate (21 g) can stimulate a rise in MPS after resistance exercise in trained young men that would be supportive of a positive net protein balance, which, over time, would lead to hypertrophy. © 2007 NRC.

Effects of a high protein intake on renal acid excretion in bodybuilders
Bodybuilders often prefer a high protein diet to achieve maximum skeletal muscle hypertrophy. In this study the effect of a high protein diet on renal acid load and renal handling of proton excretion was studied comparing dietary intake and urinary ionograms in 37 male bodybuilders and 20 young male adults. Energy intake (+ 7%), protein intake (128 vs 88 g/d 1.73 m2), and renal net acid excretion (95 vs 64 mmol/d/1.73 m2) were higher in the bodybuilders than in the controls, however, urine-pH was only slightly lower (5.83 vs 6.12). In the bodybuilders renal ammonium excretion was higher at any given value of urine pH than in the controls. In a regression analysis protein intake proved to be an independent factor modulating the ratio between urine-pH and renal ammonium excretion. The concomitant increase of renal net acid excretion and maximum renal acid excretion capacity in periods of high protein intake appears to be a highly effective response of the kidney to a specific food intake leaving a large renal surplus capacity for an additional renal acid load.





Obviously they're not totally relevant to the debate, but still worth a quick scan. There seems to be a greater focus on amino acid consumption and it's effects on protein synthesis, rather than just the amount of protein taken. I've not found anything that says there's a maximum amount (of protein intake) that's pointless to exceed but common sense would tell you that there is one.

VikingWarlord
03-21-2009, 12:10 PM
I've not found anything that says there's a maximum amount (of protein intake) that's pointless to exceed but common sense would tell you that there is one.

I think the problem is that we all know there will be a maximum uptake but it's going to be different for every person. Trying to nail it down to one number that's supposed to apply to everyone completely ignores differences in individual physiology.

That's some interesting stuff you put up there. Definitely worth a read.

7mfpRFP
03-21-2009, 02:05 PM
the average person synthesises about 18-22 grams of protein at one time. if you're taking more than that your are either crappin it out or it is adding to your fat tissue. pro bodybuilder synthesise about 33-37 grams. if you want add to your number simply start taking d-bol, about 50 mgs a day before your workout for about 5 - 7 weeks, you'll notice in your stools an well as your body

mcdonough9395
03-21-2009, 02:46 PM
I dont know how this turned into this. I never said i was eating a crap load of protien at one time just a large amount throughout the day and was just wondering if there were any negative effects or health risks in doing this for a long period of time. Besides calcium build ups (kidney stones) and being hard on the kidneys in general if your not getting in enough water.

VikingWarlord
03-21-2009, 03:02 PM
the average person synthesises about 18-22 grams of protein at one time. if you're taking more than that your are either crappin it out or it is adding to your fat tissue. pro bodybuilder synthesise about 33-37 grams. if you want add to your number simply start taking d-bol, about 50 mgs a day before your workout for about 5 - 7 weeks, you'll notice in your stools an well as your body

The problem inherent in this is always the fact that the time period isn't given. You say "at one time". Well, is that per day, per minute, per hour, per 2h 13m 27s?

The claim that there is a definite number is the very definition of bull****. It can't be proven and can only be inferred from a very small sampling of very flawed data.

A number cannot be given. There is no research to suggest a maximum uptake of protein because individual physiology varies so widely. What constitutes an "average person"? How long is "at one time"?

What tests were done to say that this person with undefined characteristics can only synthesize a very specific amount of protein in an undefined amount of time? For that matter, how can the time frame and individual characteristics BE undefined yet still come up with a resulting measurement that can be nailed down to within 4g?

The research simply doesn't exist to be able to answer these questions because it can't be done.

twm
03-21-2009, 03:16 PM
so what if youre eating at an overall caloric deficit but consume more than 22grams of protein at "one time?" surely that wouldnt be stored as fat.

Songsangnim
03-22-2009, 09:43 PM
so what if youre eating at an overall caloric deficit but consume more than 22grams of protein at "one time?" surely that wouldnt be stored as fat.

No. It would be used as fuel.

Songsangnim
03-22-2009, 09:50 PM
I dont know how this turned into this. I never said i was eating a crap load of protien at one time just a large amount throughout the day and was just wondering if there were any negative effects or health risks in doing this for a long period of time. Besides calcium build ups (kidney stones) and being hard on the kidneys in general if your not getting in enough water.

Not really. If you have healthy kidneys and drink a lot of water, you should be fine. If you are really worried about it, you can always get a medical checkup.