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vdizenzo
03-25-2009, 11:50 AM
I traiined with light weights yesterday because I am trying to overcome a few nagging injuries. I was doing sets of 20 with 145 on the bar for bench. I noticed I was actually hurting myself a bit because I push every weight like it's a thousand pounds. My next set I only pushed it hard enough to get the reps completed. I am now wondering if I push all my lighter/warm up sets on my main compound exercises too forcefully.

Could pushing too hard cause injury? Could it cause me to tire earlier when I get to heavier weight? Could it wear on my CNS? I'm looking forward to reading what everyone thinks.

MarcusWild
03-25-2009, 12:07 PM
Pressing with as much force as possible is taxing on the CNS. You're recruiting maximal number of muscle fibers even if the weight is lighter. I think it's more of an issue for someone at your level too. You get 90%+ recruitment where a beginner is only going to get 40-50% recruitment.

I tried to do higher board work after my DE bench. It went OK at first then it fried my CNS. The high recruitment for speed bench and the high recruitment of lockout work in the same workout was too much. My muscles could handle it, but my CNS couldn't.

Sensei
03-25-2009, 01:44 PM
There's a tension<-->relaxation thing in most athletics that you can lose if you do a lot of PL/heavy lifting exclusively. It can really make it difficult to go back to doing high reps or many cyclic sports

bencher8
03-25-2009, 02:03 PM
I agree with Marcus on it. I think pushing to forcefully on your lighter sets is taxing on your CNS, especially if you are doing that on every rep and every set. I think Lou said something about this in his book as well. Something like you shouldnt push at max force against weights that are too light(i think it was something like 30% of your max). The reason for this was potential injury.

I personally only start to push at max force when I get to the weight that I am gonna do work sets. Until then I am just warming up...

geoffsherman
03-25-2009, 02:31 PM
I think I read either Jim or Matt K who said you should only apply as much force as needed to complete a lift. Anymore is wasted energy. That has really helped me when I am doing low weight rep work to make sure that I don't go too crazy.

Travis Bell
03-25-2009, 03:18 PM
Personally when I'm doing rehab exercises, I take it slower. The idea behind it for me is to slowly stretch out the muscle as I allow more blood flow to the area, yet keep a fast enough pace to create that blood flow.

I usually keep the reps high and the time between sets very short to get that "pump" feeling and then I shut it down.

As far as all this CNS business the only thing I'm going to read into it is if 135 felt heavy, I'd say you really need to just take a break from the shirt for awhile. You've been pushing some major poundages and your body may just have said enough is enough for awhile. Give it a break. Stick with your raw work and let your body heal.

Maybe even consider adding your DE work back in, just with a different flavor to it than you did in the past.

mike95763
03-25-2009, 03:36 PM
I am not nearly as experienced as the others who have answered the post so far, but it seems to me that it is sort of like throwing a baseball. The ball is pretty light, but if I try to throw it as hard as I can, in other words if I try to exert maximal force, even though the ball is small and light it hurts the heck out of my arm. I have tried to throw small rocks a few times that are even lighter than a baseball, i.e. "I bet I can throw this rock farthur than you can throw that one." I literally couldn't lift my arm for a week. It makes sense to me that lighter weights are as dangerous or even more dangerous than heavy weights when your pushing as hard as you can.

drew
03-26-2009, 06:29 AM
Your bread and butter is pushing hard and generating a lot of speed, so you probably want to stick with it for lower reps. But you'll probably benefit from easing off when you do the high rep stuff, especially for rehab purposes.

Especially lately, I've noticed you're really firing weight up exceptionally well. Probably why your hips hurt.

DrDudley-Robey
03-26-2009, 09:35 AM
I traiined with light weights yesterday because I am trying to overcome a few nagging injuries. I was doing sets of 20 with 145 on the bar for bench. I noticed I was actually hurting myself a bit because I push every weight like it's a thousand pounds. My next set I only pushed it hard enough to get the reps completed. I am now wondering if I push all my lighter/warm up sets on my main compound exercises too forcefully.

Could pushing too hard cause injury? Could it cause me to tire earlier when I get to heavier weight? Could it wear on my CNS? I'm looking forward to reading what everyone thinks.

You may have been overtraing for a while and now need a break to recover a bit. If you are doing alot of warm -up sets that could make you tired also but injuries sap your strength too. When your body wants to recover it puts is focus toward that goal and not the weight you are lifting. I dont know what the injuries are or how long you have had them however a little vacation and some extra recovery work may not be a bad thing.

chris mason
03-26-2009, 10:46 AM
A few things:

- Pushing hard will increase the force of the movement and thus the impact on connective tissue etc. With that said, if you are lowering the weight quickly and then reversing with high force and pressing fast that would involve even more force.

- In terms of CNS, that kind of work should not be overly taxing if you are stopping well short of momentary failure which it sounds like you are. Taxing on the joints and connective tissue is very different than taxing the CNS. Now, even though a speed type of movement for higher reps is different to your CNS than a higher load version of the same exercise, I think a different exercise all-together performed in a similar manner would be even better if your CNS was fried from the heavy training.

- Performing your reps explosively on warm-ups for heavier sets is not a bad thing and I think can be a positive in terms of priming your CNS for the heavier work.

scott rowe
03-26-2009, 11:04 AM
lots of good ideas here. i might try slowing down like travis said for that "pump" feeling.

vdizenzo
03-26-2009, 11:35 AM
This is why I love this place. Great advice from many different perspectives. I think I may try slowing things down a bit until I get closer to working sets. For example, when I raw bench I am going to experiment with not exerting maximum force until I get to either 405 or 495. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all of your comments.

RhodeHouse
03-26-2009, 12:01 PM
This ridiculous post got me to post on here, again. Are you happy now?

You're f#$%ing fine. You're not overtrained. Your CNS is fine. Pushing 135, 225, or 315 as hard as you can is not frying your CNS. Nobody on here knows what real overtraining is. Practice how you play. If you practice slow, you'll play slow. Would you get under 800lbs without taking all the necessary sets to warm-up, first? No. SO, why would you not warm-up to prepare your body to take 135? Dude, you're old. You've been training hard for 20 years. You're beat up. You don't need to smash 135 or 225, but come on man, you're gonna change the best part of your lift?

Here's an idea, try warming up properly. Not just lying on the bench and taking the bar for 10 reps and then putting plates on. Warm-up every muscle that's going to be worked that day. Especially when you bench. It's a full body movement. I know you'll look me in the eye and tell me you don't need to warm-up, but seriously, you do. If you were sweating by the time you took 135, do you think things would hurt?

I can't believe this is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sensei
03-26-2009, 01:52 PM
I agree w. Rhodes - I don't know if this was his point, but warming-up to heavy weights is different than just doing light work. Warm-up should be done "practice like you play". Light work, on the other hand, not necessarily.

bencher8
03-26-2009, 02:39 PM
"Pushing 135, 225, or 315 as hard as you can is not frying your CNS. Nobody on here knows what real overtraining is."

I dont agree with this...I think training consistantly, pushing those weights as hard as you can will fry you some...especially considering he is working with 800,900, and 1000 pounds on his heavy day. I have found it difficult to continue my de bench day when I have been doing these same kinds of weights. Overtraining can happen....Ive been there several times. I dont know what the answer is to training de bench consistantly and still training to overload, but I know it will beat you up.

"If you practice slow, you'll play slow. Would you get under 800lbs without taking all the necessary sets to warm-up, first? No. SO, why would you not warm-up to prepare your body to take 135?"

I agree with this....practice slow and you will play slow. However, you dont need to push as hard as you can on warming up. Warm up and then push explosively on your working sets. Vinnie and I are alike in that we depend on speed to accomplish lifts.

"Dude, you're old."

This is just wrong..or funny, depending on how you look at it lol

"If you were sweating by the time you took 135, do you think things would hurt?"

If I was sweating by the time I took 135, I wouldnt make it much further. Im a bench only weakling, not a powerlifter...I dont plan on working hard enough to sweat too much lol

Matt, you know any posts you make on the internet are gonna get smashed on Outlaws....you are opening yourself up. I guess thats what we do for friends lol

vdizenzo
03-26-2009, 03:31 PM
Sweet, I got Rhodes pissed. Goal accomplished. Seriously though, I agree that I could warm up a little more. I also think that I don't have to push as hard as I do on 135 and 225. Believe me, I don't want to lose my speed. I was just floating a question. I just know driving 135 as hard as I could for a set hurt whereas just pushing it enough to move it did not.

C.Pop
03-26-2009, 07:42 PM
Vincent,

I took a little time off from pushing every set as hard as I could. My goals were twofold; first, I was hoping to get a couple more reps on my repetition days, and also to help a few nagging injuries heal up. What I found was that the being explosive (I pretty much start that after 135/225) was important to my strength. It was a lot easier to lose the explosiveness than to get it back. I think warming up a little more and maybe waiting a little longer to unleash yourself would benefit you, but I'm always the strongest when I have been pushing as hard as I could on all the big movements. The small stuff doesn't matter.

-Pop