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View Full Version : sumo deadlifts for squatting stregth



rctriplefresh5
04-03-2009, 10:44 AM
so ive never really liked the look or nature of sumo to be completely honest. i always felt it was king of a cheating way to dl(just my opinions) anyway, my squat strength has been crappy for a long time, and for the past two weeks i have been doing WIDEEEEE stanced sumo dls doe 1 set of 7(first week) and one set of 8(increased the weight 20 pounds from last week and did one more rep for the second not week) anyway i liked the way they felt and my hams feel sore today. what are your guys opinions on sumo stance deadlifts for POSTERIOR chain strength? right now as you can see im just keeping the weight light and working on my form and i plan on increasing about 10 pounds/week and adding an extra rep until i stop being able to progress.

i DO NOT plan on switching to sumo however. i will just be doing one set of about 275 for 9 reps next week after my conventionals deadlift workout which is making me tired enough lols.

rctriplefresh5
04-03-2009, 03:37 PM
bump

endymion88
04-03-2009, 03:44 PM
i might not be the best person to ask but i use the competition deadlifts (conventional/sumo) to build on themselves not my squats... personally i'd squat/gm maybe romanian or sldl to get my squat up. that's just me though.

slashkills
04-03-2009, 03:54 PM
Extra wide sumo deadlifts and extra wide stiff legged deadlifts will really build your hip strength which will help your squat.

rctriplefresh5
04-03-2009, 04:12 PM
alright cool. i squat 2 times a week. i couldnt handle 3 times it was overtaining for me and undereating to ;)

MarcusWild
04-03-2009, 05:32 PM
I vote for the extra wide sumo SLDL as an accessory movement. Arch your back when you do them. You should be able to do ~85% of your 1RM of a normal deadlift. If not, then your hips are weak.

rctriplefresh5
04-03-2009, 05:41 PM
well yeah i try to keep my arch tight, but i do that for regular deadlifts too ;). i kind of tend to stiff leg my regul;ar deads though so i just do the sumo as perfect as possible. and yeah im sure i can do a decent amount of weight in comparison to my conventional. my conventional max is around 420-430 not sure i almost got 420 from a 1.5 inch deficit yesterday, so im guessing off the floor its 430 but guessing is useless in lifting lol. but ive been doing working sets of 7 and 8 reps of 230 and 250 on sumo and they feel seriously like a joke, so im moving it up to 275 for 10 next week.

Sensei
04-03-2009, 05:52 PM
I guess I'm not really understanding why you wouldn't just do wide (or ultra-wide) stance squats for assistance then, rather than sumo DLs...

Brian C
04-04-2009, 09:19 AM
I guess I'm not really understanding why you wouldn't just do wide (or ultra-wide) stance squats for assistance then, rather than sumo DLs...

I'm on the same page with sense. Why not do a set or 2 extra wide? You would probably get more of an effect your looking for.

Lones Green
04-04-2009, 10:12 AM
I guess I'm not really understanding why you wouldn't just do wide (or ultra-wide) stance squats for assistance then, rather than sumo DLs...

This is what I was thinking. Generally, guys see more carryover from squat to deadlift, rather than deadlift to squat. Wider stance squats are going to be more beneficial to you in your case.

Real wide sumo deads are a good assistance movement though, so don't stop those!

rctriplefresh5
04-04-2009, 10:51 AM
ive done wide squats before, with my feet touching the rack, but i never liked them. the sumo deadlfits really made my legs sore.

Detard
04-04-2009, 11:48 AM
ive done wide squats before, with my feet touching the rack, but i never liked them. the sumo deadlfits really made my legs sore.

So they arent as easy as you thought eh?

rctriplefresh5
04-04-2009, 12:13 PM
theyre a lot easier than conventional deadlifts. the ROM is like 1...2...3 lol, its just my muscles are sore because those muscles are weak. either way lifting shouldnt be easy loi ;)

Detard
04-04-2009, 12:27 PM
theyre a lot easier than conventional deadlifts. the ROM is like 1...2...3 lol, its just my muscles are sore because those muscles are weak. either way lifting shouldnt be easy loi ;)

So try pulling your conventional 1rm, in a sumo stance. If its easier, stick with sumo. Your body type will determine what stance you should pull in. How old are you btw?

rctriplefresh5
04-04-2009, 12:57 PM
im 19, and tbh, i am not going to be competing maybe until im a little older. i personally enjoy conventional more, but who knows, if i see some good results from sumo i might try to use it as my default. tbh though, i am guessing since im new at sumos i cant do more than 315 lol. im going for 275x10 next week, well see if its easy or not.

rctriplefresh5
04-04-2009, 11:48 PM
i wasnt aware of how weak my hams really were. i just tried to do ghrs, and i couldnt even do one, i could barely do one negative without falling on my face. i mean my squat is weak, but its not THAT bad. i have squatted for an all time best like 260(oly style) due to health problems my squat is now like 245(oly style) yes thats crappy but stilll, shouldnt i be able to do one negative of ughrs.
btw i dont have a ghr machine and im for sure not buying one so i used the setup this guy uses just didnt use the towels ;)

_VWhwGsDJyE&feature=channel_page

rctriplefresh5
04-05-2009, 11:55 AM
i wasnt aware of how weak my hams really were. i just tried to do ghrs, and i couldnt even do one, i could barely do one negative without falling on my face. i mean my squat is weak, but its not THAT bad. i have squatted for an all time best like 260(oly style) due to health problems my squat is now like 245(oly style) yes thats crappy but stilll, shouldnt i be able to do one negative of ughrs.
btw i dont have a ghr machine and im for sure not buying one so i used the setup this guy uses just didnt use the towels ;)

_VWhwGsDJyE&feature=channel_page
any thoughts on this? i did manage to get one rep later one but then i tried again later and couldnt even resist more than a quarter lols. my hams were sore from sumos and it felt like if i kept resisiting the muscle would get a spasm or be toast but thats no excuse im weak lois,./

rctriplefresh5
04-05-2009, 04:51 PM
i wasnt aware of how weak my hams really were. i just tried to do ghrs, and i couldnt even do one, i could barely do one negative without falling on my face. i mean my squat is weak, but its not THAT bad. i have squatted for an all time best like 260(oly style) due to health problems my squat is now like 245(oly style) yes thats crappy but stilll, shouldnt i be able to do one negative of ughrs.
btw i dont have a ghr machine and im for sure not buying one so i used the setup this guy uses just didnt use the towels ;)

_VWhwGsDJyE&feature=channel_page


any thoughts on this? i did manage to get one rep later one but then i tried again later and couldnt even resist more than a quarter lols. my hams were sore from sumos and it felt like if i kept resisiting the muscle would get a spasm or be toast but thats no excuse im weak lois,./

no opinions? i know a lot of huys here folllow westside so im sure someones arare omn glute ham rais stregths./:tuttut:

Hazerboy
04-05-2009, 05:53 PM
no opinions? i know a lot of huys here folllow westside so im sure someones arare omn glute ham rais stregths./:tuttut:


sometimes you have to wait for more than 15 hours for a response. relax.

Whats your bodyweight? If your squat is 250, then you're probably just weak all over (don't worry, I am too) and your effort would probably be better spent busting your ass on squats themselves versus assistance excercises that target specific groups. Hell, I squat 425 at 195 and I can barely get 3x8 of GHR. If you really feel like it is your hamstrings holding you back, however, then try getting a rope and hanging it above and a bit in front of the GHR. that way you can hold onto the rope and use it to help you complete your reps. a little difficult to set up, but in my gym we have some pipes above our GHR that I use. bands work really well also, ,and I think I actually like them better because there is some "give" in them.

If you don't have the right setup to do that, you might just try a different assistance exercise altogether. GHR are an excellent, but people have and will continue to squat tons of weight without ever having touched the thing. Try stiff legged deadlifts, or wide stance, low bar Good mornings.

EDIT: I just reread your post. Yes, your hamstrings are weak, but GHR are a pretty hard exercise to begin with.

rctriplefresh5
04-05-2009, 06:55 PM
sometimes you have to wait for more than 15 hours for a response. relax.

Whats your bodyweight? If your squat is 250, then you're probably just weak all over (don't worry, I am too) and your effort would probably be better spent busting your ass on squats themselves versus assistance excercises that target specific groups. Hell, I squat 425 at 195 and I can barely get 3x8 of GHR. If you really feel like it is your hamstrings holding you back, however, then try getting a rope and hanging it above and a bit in front of the GHR. that way you can hold onto the rope and use it to help you complete your reps. a little difficult to set up, but in my gym we have some pipes above our GHR that I use. bands work really well also, ,and I think I actually like them better because there is some "give" in them.

If you don't have the right setup to do that, you might just try a different assistance exercise altogether. GHR are an excellent, but people have and will continue to squat tons of weight without ever having touched the thing. Try stiff legged deadlifts, or wide stance, low bar Good mornings.

EDIT: I just reread your post. Yes, your hamstrings are weak, but GHR are a pretty hard exercise to begin with.
well my weight is rpetty pathetic, i have clinical;ly low testosterone and pituitary microadenoma that might be excreting prolactin (all of this imtrying to get fixed) i am only 165 pounds at 6'2. i wouldnt say that i was weak all over. i have been lifting for around 4.5 years, my bench press is 120 pound dbsx 1 or 2 reps, and my deadlift is 405 and almost 420 off of a 1.5 inch deficit. my best squat was 260x1 ass to grass which is pathetic, but recently my stregth has gone down due to the above illnesses lol. ive tried doing the just squat approach, and just benching, and just deadlifting approach. i basically spent a whole year doing the 5x5 routine, without the assistance excerscises. i would do bench 5x5, squat 5x5 on monday, and on wednesdays i would do deads and rack lifts, and then fridays bench, squats and curls for da gurls. idk i never like to use genetics as an excuse but maybe the low testosterone is more of an issue than meets the eyes? another thing is, that ive ehard doing ghr's on anything other than a ghr machine like i do in my powerrack is actually a lot harder than a normal ghr? i did manage to get one rep but after that i couldnt even do negatives let alone another single. idk my l;egs are definately weak, its weird though my off the floor stregth is my strong point in deadlifts. i know the obvious answer to all of this is gain weight theres so much yo ucan do at 6'2 165, but what worries me is that i used to be 20 pounds stronger on bench and squat at this exact same weights.a

Kiknskreem
04-05-2009, 10:42 PM
Tallguy, tallguy, tallguy... before you go on about your genetics and medical condition, you have to get the BASICS down.

Having seen two of your logs, you do not have this **** down yet. Your diet, as you have said many a times, is terrible.

Eat more.
Get on a simple progression and follow it to a T.

You have never consistently done these two things.


Since you have been told such things literally hundreds of times on the several websites you have frequented this is surely in vain, but hey.... I'm a swell guy.

rctriplefresh5
04-06-2009, 10:56 AM
lol dude there is so much **** wrong with me its not funny lol. dirty bulking all of my life has really messed up my stomach, as a result it always hurts, which makes eating difficult. ive got a gastroenterologist appointment on the 30th. hopefully i can get myself sorted out. until then i will just have to eat what i can lols.

everytime ive done programs like 5x5 or w/e id start out with the deload weight and then by week 4 or 5 when im at a weight that i previously could rep 5 times ill get it 3 times. ill then try that same weight again next week and get it 3 times lol. so then ill say screw this and ill bump the weight up and only get that weight for 3 times the next week lol. it seems my body is fails.
how was nj nationals ;). you should have come over and filmed me js. EXCUSES!

Sensei
04-06-2009, 07:14 PM
lol dude there is so much **** wrong with me its not funny lol. dirty bulking all of my life has really messed up my stomach, as a result it always hurts, which makes eating difficult. ive got a gastroenterologist appointment on the 30th. hopefully i can get myself sorted out. until then i will just have to eat what i can lols.Please stop with the "LOL"s... I realize that it's tough to read emotion online, but with your rambling, a lot of people (like me) will start to think you aren't particularly serious.

You're 19... How long could you have been "dirty bulking"? It sounds like a really nice way of saying "eat a lot of crap whenever I felt like it". I'm all for weight gain and I refer people to JM Blakely's "Big Boy's Menu Plan", but the purpose is to get people to realize that there is no excuse for a "I CAN'T gain weight" attitude... If you're having stomach problems (even if you're not it's a good idea), stop eating crap. Eat well, but eat more if you want to gain weight.


everytime ive done programs like 5x5 or w/e id start out with the deload weight and then by week 4 or 5 when im at a weight that i previously could rep 5 times ill get it 3 times. ill then try that same weight again next week and get it 3 times lol. so then ill say screw this and ill bump the weight up and only get that weight for 3 times the next week lol. it seems my body is fails.
how was nj nationals ;). you should have come over and filmed me js. EXCUSES!
Jeebus, this is the problem with most linear (peaking) programs and people who follow them going balls to the wall every session... If you don't start really light, you're GOING to stall out in four to five weeks. Just freaking lift hard, add reps when you can, and add weight when you are feeling saucy. It's not easy, but it doesn't have to complicated.

Sensei
04-06-2009, 07:18 PM
Oh and by the way, if I haven't said it clearly enough already, here it is: You want squatting strength? Then YOU'VE GOT TO SQUAT. You want to do sumo DLs? Fine, do them, but the bottom line is you can do sumo DLs, GHR, etc. till the cows come home but stop looking for the perfect assistance exercise... The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

rctriplefresh5
04-06-2009, 07:37 PM
yeah believe it or nt i am one of those people who beleives you dont need too mucvh assistance excersicse. i had tried the 3x per week squatting and did nothing else but i didnt like it to much. i am still going to be squatting 2 times per week, but i will also add in a set of sumos and attempts at ghr.

rctriplefresh5
04-06-2009, 07:40 PM
Please stop with the "LOL"s... I realize that it's tough to read emotion online, but with your rambling, a lot of people (like me) will start to think you aren't particularly serious.

You're 19... How long could you have been "dirty bulking"? It sounds like a really nice way of saying "eat a lot of crap whenever I felt like it". I'm all for weight gain and I refer people to JM Blakely's "Big Boy's Menu Plan", but the purpose is to get people to realize that there is no excuse for a "I CAN'T gain weight" attitude... If you're having stomach problems (even if you're not it's a good idea), stop eating crap. Eat well, but eat more if you want to gain weight.


Jeebus, this is the problem with most linear (peaking) programs and people who follow them going balls to the wall every session... If you don't start really light, you're GOING to stall out in four to five weeks. Just freaking lift hard, add reps when you can, and add weight when you are feeling saucy. It's not easy, but it doesn't have to complicated.
well, i mean the diet i used to follow i had been hitting 220ish grams of protein and nearly 4000 calories so it wasnt really all crap. it was like 5 eggs, 16 oz milk, 2 slices whole wheat bread for breakfast, then lunch would be an italian bmt sub from subway with a ****load of dressing lol, then id have a weightgainer shake split into two half servings(homeade with oats and whey and milk) and then a 16 oz glass of milk and a natty pb on whole wheats bread sammich.

Sensei
04-06-2009, 07:42 PM
Nevermind.

rctriplefresh5
04-09-2009, 05:26 PM
Extra wide sumo deadlifts and extra wide stiff legged deadlifts will really build your hip strength which will help your squat.
so today i learned how ahrd sumop deadlifts are. i can dl around 420( just missed it) on a small deficit and today i got 280x0 my first set of sumo, then i got 265x5 which wasnt too hard so ithrew on 280 aagain and got it 3 times, and then 2 times. granted this was after my dl workout but still lols.

and ihave a question for those of you who pull sumo. i put my feet REALLY WIDE since im a very close stance conventional puller so i put them wide for sumo. anyway im always scared the weights going to hit my feet, so every negative ilike tilt the bar and jump up and get my feet under the bar lol any advice..

Sean S
04-10-2009, 06:03 PM
If you have access to some of those really big heavy-duty collars, put those on before you put your plates on the bar. If you don't have access to these, any collar that will take up a couple of inches or more will work. This will create a little more room to set up wide without smashing your toes.

rctriplefresh5
04-10-2009, 06:44 PM
very good idea. i use two collars on my bar anyway because ithink my bar is only like 40 pounds so i try to balance it out by putting 4 collars on. i will put one on the inside and one on the end to help the weights stay in place since i dont want the palstes falling offf and ****.

i have another question. i notice when im lifting 400 plus i dont even notice the barbemnding. is this normal? i have a cheap cap barbell, and it should be bending. i used to do squat lockouts(quarter squats) with 640 pounds and the bar never seemed to be bending either. os ot not supposed to be noticable to the lifter or so. /

slashkills
04-10-2009, 06:56 PM
Thats an easy one. You have a good bar. Mine has been slightly bending with 300lbs.

rctriplefresh5
04-10-2009, 07:08 PM
NO WAY LOL its a cap 300 pound weight saet bar and i got it from a friend(my old cap barbell got broken with 175 on it for cleans LOL) and this one was left out in the sun to rust and corrode at my neighbors house until he gave it to me.

so you should be able to feel it bending then? its weird i dont notice it. maybe im to in the zone

endymion88
04-10-2009, 10:14 PM
or maybe it's just not bending...take a video and see what happens.

Detard
04-10-2009, 11:17 PM
maybe im to in the zone

Probably the reason