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rctriplefresh5
04-15-2009, 10:48 PM
ok so i just had a question. i am being serious and am not trolling or trying to upset anyone. Now i know once you get to elite status making gains of any sorts is VERY HARD. the top lifters are so strong and so near their genetic potential, and already have technique down, training down, diet down, and are on the best steroids imaginable. so i know that making gains is very hard once you get to the elite level. my question is this. Andy bolton deadlifted around 1003 around 2.5 years ago. isnt a 5 pound increase on a deadlift(the easier of the big 3 for someone to gain weights on) pretty low of an increase to have for 2.5 years? not trying to be a dick and i hope noone takes this post the wrong way. but i am genuinely curious about this. so lease discuss this genre guys thanks.

Travis Bell
04-15-2009, 10:55 PM
LOL unbelievable. Everyone at the top is on steroids? Interesting. That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. No, that's just an outright ridiculous thing to say

Just because someone is at an elite level certainly doesn't mean their technique is perfect, diet is perfect etc. Everyone has something they can work on.

What are you expecting to glean from this thread? Are we Andy? Sure 5lbs is not much on a small scale, but when you consider the sheer immensity of the weight he's pulling off the floor, 5lbs is a huge difference. Plus his first grand he hit in a meet where he took token benches and squats. Same thing at this last meet. This last meet he did was the first DL only meet he'd done since he hit 1003

Why on earth do you think deadlifting is the easiest to hit PR's on?

evilxxx
04-15-2009, 10:56 PM
ok so i just had a question. i am being serious and am not trolling or trying to upset anyone. Now i know once you get to elite status making gains of any sorts is VERY HARD. the top lifters are so strong and so near their genetic potential, and already have technique down, training down, diet down, and are on the best steroids imaginable. so i know that making gains is very hard once you get to the elite level. my question is this. Andy bolton deadlifted around 1003 around 2.5 years ago. isnt a 5 pound increase on a deadlift(the easier of the big 3 for someone to gain weights on) pretty low of an increase to have for 2.5 years? not trying to be a dick and i hope noone takes this post the wrong way. but i am genuinely curious about this. so lease discuss this genre guys thanks.

Hmm? Maybe he is at the peak of his potential? But if you see his video his 1008 came up faster than the 1003 so maybe he got more in the tank and did not wanted to use it? not like anyone else is right there knocking on his record.

MPB
04-15-2009, 10:56 PM
the easier of the big 3 for someone to gain weights on
I have to disagree with this.

danmac
04-15-2009, 10:58 PM
Well WHEN i hit my first 1003 lb deadlift, i sure hope i make that kind of 2.5 year progress.

The guy is at the TOP of his game, what do you expect him to do? Hit a 50 lb PR (or WR in this case)?

rctriplefresh5
04-15-2009, 11:04 PM
LOL unbelievable. Everyone at the top is on steroids? Interesting. That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. No, that's just an outright ridiculous thing to say

Just because someone is at an elite level certainly doesn't mean their technique is perfect, diet is perfect etc. Everyone has something they can work on.

What are you expecting to glean from this thread? Are we Andy? Sure 5lbs is not much on a small scale, but when you consider the sheer immensity of the weight he's pulling off the floor, 5lbs is a huge difference. Plus his first grand he hit in a meet where he took token benches and squats. Same thing at this last meet. This last meet he did was the first DL only meet he'd done since he hit 1003

Why on earth do you think deadlifting is the easiest to hit PR's on?
what did iexpect to gain from this thread? i thought maybe id get an answer on if it was as small as ithought. i did not mean to offend anyone like sitressed 50 times! also are you serious? youre actually telling me the pros dont use steroids? i mean andy is a freak of genetics and im sure hes an animal in the gym and puts in the work, but when trying to stay at the top and beat kons, and magnusson you do what you gotta do. yes all the pros juice. and why wouldnt his diet and technique and training be perfect? im pretty sure hes has a lot of time and support to perfect these. and im rpetty sure hes willing to put in the time to eat the right stuff and enough of it.


Hmm? Maybe he is at the peak of his potential? But if you see his video his 1008 came up faster than the 1003 so maybe he got more in the tank and did not wanted to use it? not like anyone else is right there knocking on his record.
yeah he definately looked like he coulda knocked out 1015, but then again apparently a few pounds is a lot!

I have to disagree with this.
everyones different i suppose!

Well WHEN i hit my first 1003 lb deadlift, i sure hope i make that kind of 2.5 year progress.

The guy is at the TOP of his game, what do you expect him to do? Hit a 50 lb PR (or WR in this case)?
it was just a question man...sorry i apologize for not knowing everything and asking a question :(

danmac
04-15-2009, 11:11 PM
Haha sorry it wasn't supposed to come out that dickish. I apologize.

I just can't imagine him breaking the record by much. You have to think that this guy is at the limit of his potential, if it were easy to progress at that point then we would have 1000 lb deadlifters left and right just because they put the time in.

Travis Bell
04-15-2009, 11:47 PM
what did iexpect to gain from this thread? i thought maybe id get an answer on if it was as small as ithought. i did not mean to offend anyone like sitressed 50 times! also are you serious? youre actually telling me the pros dont use steroids? i mean andy is a freak of genetics and im sure hes an animal in the gym and puts in the work, but when trying to stay at the top and beat kons, and magnusson you do what you gotta do. yes all the pros juice. and why wouldnt his diet and technique and training be perfect? im pretty sure hes has a lot of time and support to perfect these. and im rpetty sure hes willing to put in the time to eat the right stuff and enough of it.


Well I'm a pro and I don't juice and I know for a fact that there are others but it's none of my business to put down names.

That's pretty cool though that you've talked to Andy and you know his diet, what gear he's on and that sorta stuff.

You're right, everything Andy does is perfect. End of discussion

Sounds to me like you've got it all wrapped up pal. Nice work

Sidior
04-16-2009, 12:04 AM
ok so i just had a question. i am being serious and am not trolling or trying to upset anyone. Now i know once you get to elite status making gains of any sorts is VERY HARD. the top lifters are so strong and so near their genetic potential, and already have technique down, training down, diet down, and are on the best steroids imaginable. so i know that making gains is very hard once you get to the elite level. my question is this. Andy bolton deadlifted around 1003 around 2.5 years ago. isnt a 5 pound increase on a deadlift(the easier of the big 3 for someone to gain weights on) pretty low of an increase to have for 2.5 years? not trying to be a dick and i hope noone takes this post the wrong way. but i am genuinely curious about this. so lease discuss this genre guys thanks.

Although they are better ways to have asked this question I do understand where you are coming from. IMO....
-As mentioned 1008 when up much faster then 1003, and he wants from what I have read 1036 or something insane like that within a year
-I'm sure lots of pros use, but so do lots of amateurs. Assuming they are all on is as dumb as assuming no amateurs use.
-What is easier to gain on is almost entirely based on personal leverages. Especially at elite levels and equipment use.
-I don't know what the best steroids are, but Im assuming those who use at the elite level have access to the same gear as everyone else.
-Spend more time reading elite powerlifting logs, plenty are capable of improving their diet (as well as their training and just about anything else)

edit: I read your post again. I still can't believe you aren't impressed with the biggest deadlifter in the world adding even 1lb to his lift.

brad cikana
04-16-2009, 01:07 AM
Well I'm a pro and I don't juice and I know for a fact that there are others but it's none of my business to put down names.

That's pretty cool though that you've talked to Andy and you know his diet, what gear he's on and that sorta stuff.

You're right, everything Andy does is perfect. End of discussion

Sounds to me like you've got it all wrapped up pal. Nice work
While the original poster started a pointless thread, you cant possibly deny that almost all the top level lifters in this sport are juicing. Not that it matters either way.

Sensei
04-16-2009, 05:18 AM
RC,
This is one of those "you need some experience to understand"-type-of-questions...

Steroids have absolutely nothing to do with your question - including it at all in the original post is just asking for people to get pissed.

Hitting PRs of any kind at any time (let alone at a meet) when you are advanced is hard. To say that a five pound gain isn't much is like saying to someone who breaks a WR in the long jump "Well, one inch isn't that much!".

bill
04-16-2009, 06:29 AM
Another thing we don't know is Andy's or any top pro's personal life. They have problems the same as everyone else. One of the biggest is staying healthy, no idea of injuries they are fighting through.
To think he has all the answers to training? Think of what it took to get 1000, now maybe he has to be able figure out how much recovery time. How do you train to pull a grand +?

I'm trying figure out if I want to go real heavy for me on squats 350 + or easier today.



I think the OP answered his own question.

" Now i know once you get to elite status making gains of any sorts is VERY HARD. the top lifters are so strong and so near their genetic potential, and already have technique down, training down, diet down, and are on the best steroids imaginable. so i know that making gains is very hard once you get to the elite level. "



I just don't think "we", kind regular gym rats realize sometimes how difficult it is.



Steroids, maybe many people are on them. To a degree,,,, I think everyone bigger and in better condition than me is on them. lol I realize that is not true at all.
We shouldn't advertise that we think all the top guys are on steroids though. NFL probably has many using but they are smart about not advertising it when they don't have to.

getting there
04-16-2009, 07:16 AM
I think you are trying to paint everyone with a pretty big brush by saying all the top level lifters are on the juice. Most likely some are, and most likely many aren't.

I think adding any amount of weight when you are already pulling over 1000 is tough to do. Hopefully Andy can keep adding weight but he is still the first, and ONLY man to ever pull 1,000+ in a meet.

-Joe

bencher8
04-16-2009, 08:22 AM
The OP answered his own question....when at the top making any increase is "very hard". Then you went on to ask if 5 pound increase over 2.5 yrs was right. Well, its very hard, so yes a 5 pound increase over 2.5 yrs might be right.

I disagree(and most powerlifters will agree) that the deadlift is the easiest lift to make increases on. I think most will tell you it is the most difficult to make increases on...if you make gains in the DL easily, then you are in the minority, or a novice lifter. I am a veteran bencher, but a novice puller. In one training cycle I went from a 550 pull to a 625 pull(in a meet). Increases like that were due to the fact that I was a novice puller and therefore made good gains....over time that would slow down dramatically...otherwise I would be pulling more than Bolton now. See what I mean by the difference in an elite puller and a novice one?

The steroid thing Im not gonna even touch....other than to say that I didnt know there were classes of steroids out there. If the the top guys use the "best" then do the middle level lifters use "middle of the road" steroids? Do the less talented lifters use "bad" steroids? That stuff is best not speculated upon.

Sean S
04-16-2009, 09:00 AM
Small increases in world records are the norm for any sport. No one breaks the 100m WR by 5 seconds. I would argue that for an advanced trainee, the DL is the most difficult to gain.
There are really strong people who take steroids and some really strong people who don't. You can get much stronger naturally than most new trainees or average gym goers think.

JasonLift
04-16-2009, 09:13 AM
While the original poster started a pointless thread, you cant possibly deny that almost all the top level lifters in this sport are juicing. Not that it matters either way.

Yes we can deny it. As Travis said he does not do steroids, and I know of some other top guys who are life time drug free. Including an 825 bencher. And I've only been involved in PL for a short time. Not everyone who is drug free only competes in Drug tested events (just like not everyone at Drug tested events is drug free), some people want to compete against the best regardless of drugs, equipment, or whatever else.

chris mason
04-16-2009, 09:28 AM
Travis is a drug free lifter who is quite strong. I think this topic in particular can be a bit sensitive for him.

While I have recently been considering the intelligent use of steroids, I too am drug free and reasonably strong.

First, I agree that most of the very top lifters are using anabolics. With that said, it is conjecture and we don't know 100%.

As for Bolton, he looked to have more in him. So, he may have been capable of 1015 or 1020 on that day. When you pull that much weight, that close to your abosolute max, you aren't going to go behind it and pull more.

Finally, when you are at that level you simply cannot maintain your peak strength all of the time. Strength therefore ebbs and flows, so any increase is a great thing as so many factors are involved.

Travis Bell
04-16-2009, 09:35 AM
I really have no problem with steroids. It's a personal choice and I really don't care either way

But I do get irritated when people say ignorant things like "because you're strong, you must be using"

Really, unless you know someone very well and know for a fact that they are using, you have no business saying that they do. Obviously you can make whatever assumptions you like, just don't state it like it's fact

chris mason
04-16-2009, 09:43 AM
I really have no problem with steroids. It's a personal choice and I really don't care either way

But I do get irritated when people say ignorant things like "because you're strong, you must be using"

Really, unless you know someone very well and know for a fact that they are using, you have no business saying that they do. Obviously you can make whatever assumptions you like, just don't state it like it's fact

I agree, don't state conjecture as fact.

Reko
04-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Hitting PRs of any kind at any time (let alone at a meet) when you are advanced is hard. To say that a five pound gain isn't much is like saying to someone who breaks a WR in the long jump "Well, one inch isn't that much!".

I think this best sums it up.

Athos
04-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Travis is a drug free lifter who is quite strong. I think this topic in particular can be a bit sensitive for him.

While I have recently been considering the intelligent use of steroids, I too am drug free and reasonably strong.

First, I agree that most of the very top lifters are using anabolics. With that said, it is conjecture and we don't know 100%.

As for Bolton, he looked to have more in him. So, he may have been capable of 1015 or 1020 on that day. When you pull that much weight, that close to your abosolute max, you aren't going to go behind it and pull more.

Finally, when you are at that level you simply cannot maintain your peak strength all of the time. Strength therefore ebbs and flows, so any increase is a great thing as so many factors are involved.

This last point is spot on. Strength isn't static and at that level, I can only imagine how difficult it would be to maintain a 1000 pound deadlift month in and month out. I've peaked on a lift at times and really stretched myself physically to make that record and naturally had to ramp back up to break that PR. My body just couldn't maintain that level of preparedness. At the all-time great level, it would have to be 10 times more difficult.

mike95763
04-16-2009, 10:05 AM
I really have no problem with steroids. It's a personal choice and I really don't care either way

But I do get irritated when people say ignorant things like "because you're strong, you must be using"

Really, unless you know someone very well and know for a fact that they are using, you have no business saying that they do. Obviously you can make whatever assumptions you like, just don't state it like it's fact

Travis is dead on on this. It really is pretty annoying how people often make assumptions about steriod use, not based on what they know about someone, but rather based on whether that person is stronger than they are. A guy like Travis (who is freaking strong), or most of the guys at the powerlifting gym I lift at, wouldn't look at me and immediately think I am on steroids, probably because they are much bigger than me and got there without using them. If I go in to the local 24 hour fitness, or even to work where I am surrounded by little and often ignorant people, there is almost always someone who thinks "wow, he is big, he must be on roids." Just because someone is an elite lifter (aka stronger than you) doesn't mean they use anything other than hard work and smart diet and training. Sorry for the rant, but this type of thing has ticked me off for years.

Tom Mutaffis
04-16-2009, 10:05 AM
Well not that I can compare myself to Andy Bolton, but speaking as someone who has made some notable achievements in strength sports I think that it is very impressive to be able to maintain your status at the top for 2-3+ years in anything; especially if you are at a world record level.

Like others mentioned there are plenty of personal issues, overcoming injury, and motivation that you will battle with along the way.

The use of drugs... well that is a completely different topic. Regardless a world record is a world record and 1,000 lbs deadlift is impressive. To be able to repeat that feat and make it look easier is an even great accomplishment.

You do reach a certain point where you are physiologically limited. For some guys this might be a 600 lbs deadlift. In Andy's case it is 1,000+ lbs. He is pushing the limit and with that is also pushing the world record even higher. That may answer your question RCT - for everyone out there you reach a certain point where no matter what the factors you may not be able to support any additional muscle mass, or any additional strength. To be able to make improvements when you are already a world class lifter is impressive in my opinion.

Rob Luyando
04-16-2009, 11:29 AM
OKay here goes my 2 cents............

As for Andy only making a 5 lbs pr in two years. Nice work! His 1008 was clean as they come and looked to me as to many others that he had a lot left in the tank. Now to all you ignorant posters you must keep in mind that Andy is a full meet lifter and has been putting in a lot of time concentrating on his bench and his squat as well. He is looking at the big picture which is getting the all time total record. So that may be some of the reason for only a 5 lb pr pull. Say what you want but a world record and a pr is a world record and a pr weather its 5 lbs or 50 lbs still damb impressive.

As for elite lifters not being able to make big gains that is total bull****. I broke my first world record and continued to work my ass off and continued to keep an open mind to different training ideas that would help me imporove. I know I am not a rare breed among elite lifters and 16 world records later I added well over 100 lbs to my first world record.

As for diet and nutrition and suppliments. Discipline plays a huge factor. How serious are you about the goals you set for yourself? With out discipline and a solid nutrition plan all the suppliments in the wolr d won't do anything for you. News flash there is still not a magic pill that allows one to sit on the couch and watch opra and gain muscle and power.

Like I said my 2 cents!

KarstenDD
04-16-2009, 11:37 AM
OKay here goes my 2 cents............

As for Andy only making a 5 lbs pr in two years. Nice work! His 1008 was clean as they come and looked to me as to many others that he had a lot left in the tank. Now to all you ignorant posters you must keep in mind that Andy is a full meet lifter and has been putting in a lot of time concentrating on his bench and his squat as well. He is looking at the big picture which is getting the all time total record. So that may be some of the reason for only a 5 lb pr pull. Say what you want but a world record and a pr is a world record and a pr weather its 5 lbs or 50 lbs still damb impressive.

As for elite lifters not being able to make big gains that is total bull****. I broke my first world record and continued to work my ass off and continued to keep an open mind to different training ideas that would help me imporove. I know I am not a rare breed among elite lifters and 16 world records later I added well over 100 lbs to my first world record.

As for diet and nutrition and suppliments. Discipline plays a huge factor. How serious are you about the goals you set for yourself? With out discipline and a solid nutrition plan all the suppliments in the wolr d won't do anything for you. News flash there is still not a magic pill that allows one to sit on the couch and watch opra and gain muscle and power.

Like I said my 2 cents!

It might be your 2 cents, but the truth is worthless. Or is that priceless?

rbtrout
04-16-2009, 12:02 PM
You do reach a certain point where you are physiologically limited. For some guys this might be a 600 lbs deadlift. In Andy's case it is 1,000+ lbs. He is pushing the limit and with that is also pushing the world record even higher. That may answer your question RCT - for everyone out there you reach a certain point where no matter what the factors you may not be able to support any additional muscle mass, or any additional strength. To be able to make improvements when you are already a world class lifter is impressive in my opinion.

I've never competed and probably never will. Since I've started pl type training, I've been able to push myself further than I thought I could go. But, when you're near your limits of strength, ANY gains you make are good achievements.
The point about holding strength at this level all the time is right on. We all have days that we just don't do well.

rctriplefresh5
04-16-2009, 12:37 PM
this post has nothing to do with steroids. but i am quite aware how much of a beast travis is. however travis is not the number 1 deadlifter in the world today. genetics, training ethic, diet, technique can only get you so far. to stay competivitive against others at the top qwho are probably using also and to be THE NUMBER ONE GUY IN THE WORLD you need to be using. how can you argue that boltons not using steroids, yet you guys told me his diet, technique etc isnt perfect. well if thats the case then he reached a 1000 pound deadlift with either the help of gear or just he is one of the lucky ones who gets where he is despite his awfuyl training and diet.

imo though im sure the top dler has a diet of 12k calories a day, has the proper training down to not overtrain and to prevent injuries,. and has fine tuned his dl technique to add every 1/8 of a pound possible. you cant have it both ways. if you want to claim andy is drug free AND THAT his diet, technique etc arent perfect, than youre basically saying he is where he is because of luck.

oonce again i dont care if hes using. and i NEVER said his deadlift wasnt incredible. i was just asking if it was ignornat to think 5 pounds over 2.5 years was kind of low even for an elite lifter and i guess i was wrong and t was.

rctriplefresh5
04-16-2009, 12:40 PM
OKay here goes my 2 cents............

As for Andy only making a 5 lbs pr in two years. Nice work! His 1008 was clean as they come and looked to me as to many others that he had a lot left in the tank. Now to all you ignorant posters you must keep in mind that Andy is a full meet lifter and has been putting in a lot of time concentrating on his bench and his squat as well. He is looking at the big picture which is getting the all time total record. So that may be some of the reason for only a 5 lb pr pull. Say what you want but a world record and a pr is a world record and a pr weather its 5 lbs or 50 lbs still damb impressive.

As for elite lifters not being able to make big gains that is total bull****. I broke my first world record and continued to work my ass off and continued to keep an open mind to different training ideas that would help me imporove. I know I am not a rare breed among elite lifters and 16 world records later I added well over 100 lbs to my first world record.

As for diet and nutrition and suppliments. Discipline plays a huge factor. How serious are you about the goals you set for yourself? With out discipline and a solid nutrition plan all the suppliments in the wolr d won't do anything for you. News flash there is still not a magic pill that allows one to sit on the couch and watch opra and gain muscle and power.

Like I said my 2 cents!
not that it matters anyway, but it has been stated by many experts that one who uses steroids and has the worst training, diet, genetics etc will outperform someone not using who has the best training diet etc.
either way i think bolton would be an idiot not to use steroids at his level of expertise, and at his close proximity to his genetic potential. but hey if he is natural ands can do it then kudos to him. i just hope he knows magnusson and konstantivos are wwatching him

bencher8
04-16-2009, 12:43 PM
to answer the question again...yes a 5 pound increase over a 2.5 yr time is good. We were letting you know why, in our opinions, that it was good.

In the other issue..IMO, no it isnt cause he is lucky. He knows how to train(he can make improvements I am sure...we all can), he knows how to eat to get strong(he could make improvements there too..as we all prolly could) and his technique is on. Of all things it isnt because he is LUCKY...its because he is TALENTED!

Detard
04-16-2009, 12:56 PM
this post has nothing to do with steroids. but i am quite aware how much of a beast travis is. however travis is not the number 1 deadlifter in the world today. genetics, training ethic, diet, technique can only get you so far. to stay competivitive against others at the top qwho are probably using also and to be THE NUMBER ONE GUY IN THE WORLD you need to be using. how can you argue that boltons not using steroids, yet you guys told me his diet, technique etc isnt perfect. well if thats the case then he reached a 1000 pound deadlift with either the help of gear or just he is one of the lucky ones who gets where he is despite his awfuyl training and diet.

imo though im sure the top dler has a diet of 12k calories a day, has the proper training down to not overtrain and to prevent injuries,. and has fine tuned his dl technique to add every 1/8 of a pound possible. you cant have it both ways. if you want to claim andy is drug free AND THAT his diet, technique etc arent perfect, than youre basically saying he is where he is because of luck.

oonce again i dont care if hes using. and i NEVER said his deadlift wasnt incredible. i was just asking if it was ignornat to think 5 pounds over 2.5 years was kind of low even for an elite lifter and i guess i was wrong and t was.


not that it matters anyway, but it has been stated by many experts that one who uses steroids and has the worst training, diet, genetics etc will outperform someone not using who has the best training diet etc.
either way i think bolton would be an idiot not to use steroids at his level of expertise, and at his close proximity to his genetic potential. but hey if he is natural ands can do it then kudos to him. i just hope he knows magnusson and konstantivos are wwatching him

Are you a troll?





Either way, what does it matter if he is assisted or not? He still busts his ass day in and day out, and is the numer 1 deadlifter in the world because of it.

Travis Bell
04-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Are you a troll?

At this point, it would appear this thread is heading that direction

To the OP, I would recommend you do some better research concerning steroids and their effect as you have some greatly incorrect information.

Either way, I think this entire thread, being based purely upon speculation is not beneficial at all and so shall be locked