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View Full Version : does anybody pull more from a deficit than from the racks?



rctriplefresh5
04-16-2009, 04:21 PM
im just curious if this is odd at all. i have recently been pulling from a 4 inch deficit. i decided that working on my strength(off the floor) is stupid because my lockout is still weak(causing me to hitch the weights to get them to lockouts) anyway i can pull more from a 4 inch deficit than i can from a slightly higher than shin high rack pull(maybe 1 inch higher than my shins? but still far below my knees) just curious what you guys think about this, and if you guys think that doing rack pulls INSTEAD OF doing deficits will help me with my hitching issue. also do you guys think that my off the floor stregth will become weak from just doing rackpulls and not doing deficits or off the floor pulls like iwas doing. thanks for any comments.

Sidior
04-16-2009, 04:25 PM
I know my full range is stronger then a slightly elevated pull because I lose all my initial leg drive off the floor. I'm sure it depends on your weaknesses.

Detard
04-16-2009, 05:27 PM
How long have you been training and how much do you deadlift?


You need to post your whole routine if you want a detailed response. your best bet will be to work in cycles. Cycle rackpulls, deficits, full ROM, GM's...etc, for best results.


We get stronger by improving our weaknesses.

rctriplefresh5
04-16-2009, 06:33 PM
my current deadlift max is 405 while standing on a 35 pound plate. today i was weaker than usual however and couldnt even get 405 once(was going for 2 since i got 400x2 last week) this was also attempted and done on a 35 pounds plate. i usually do deficits on wendsdays and shoulder press on thursdays. i didnt feel like doing shoulders today after my ****ty workout but anyway heres what i did today(im aware im probably overtraining, i just wanted to make sure iwas warmed up since my deadlift form is so ****tys.)

all sets done on a 4 inch deficit-
270x23(started doing endurance deads like 2 months ago, this is a killer)
310x5
365x3.5
405x0(1.5 inch def)
405x0(1.5 inch def.)

id normall end there but idecided to do some rack pulls from like an inch or 2 above my shins. i dont remember the exact weights but i ended up maxing on 415, and failing at 440. i got it off the racks just barelys. i also should mention i couldnt do 4 reps on 365 for rackpulls, and i think although i got 415 up, it was bad considering i could almost get 420 on deficits.

rctriplefresh5
04-17-2009, 11:20 AM
bump? also my legs feel sore today and they usually dont feel sore from deficits. do rack pulls work the legs at all. i thought i was mainly a back isolation exerscise to work the lock out and minimze any of the legs invovements in it.

Kiknskreem
04-17-2009, 11:58 AM
do rack pulls work the legs at all. i thought i was mainly a back isolation exerscise to work the lock out and minimze any of the legs invovements in it.

Oy vey.

Rack pulls are not about 'back isolation'... they take out the quads intitial drive off the floor and thus the role of hip extension falls on the glutes and hamstrings.

The extra load that most can use in a rack pull, plus the more forward shoulders position (meaning the back is more horizontal) is what makes rack pulls so hard on the erectors.

geoffsherman
04-17-2009, 12:26 PM
My weakness in the deadlift is off the floor and I use deficits as an accessory exercise every week. I pull off 4", 3", and 2" mats cycling them as I stop making progress. I have found this to help helpful in training my normal deadlift. Also, I pull sumo

Hazerboy
04-17-2009, 12:54 PM
I hardly ever do rack lockouts. Nearly all of my deadlift work is from either a deficit or straight deadlift. Actually, nearly all of my deadlift work is rows and chinups.

To put things in perspective, my best deadlift is 530, best ever rack pull from the knees is 600, and best deficit deadlift is something like 485-495. Hitching could be because your lockout sucks, or because you're not getting enough speed off the floor to carry the lift all the way to the top. Find out which one's week and fix it.

As for your routine, I'm not really sure why you're surprised that you missed a lift after a), doing "endurance deadlifts" to warm up, and b) maxed out only a week or something before that. Training with singles real low reps doesn't mean you PR every single time you're in the gym. Most of the time you'll hit something heavy, leave some in the tank and go home. It's real hard (and I wouldn't recommend it) to add 5 lbs to your doubles and PR week after week.

rctriplefresh5
04-17-2009, 02:23 PM
yeah ive been training deficits for a long time so im pretty sure my weak point is my lockout. even when doing the deficits from 4 inches the weight gets off the floor pretty quickly, and then stalls like 4 inches up there below my knees.

kik- thats good to know that it hits the hams and glutes. my hams are weak, and i guess i had ok form on the rack pulls because i really feel it in my hams today.

- im thinking of maxing out on rack pulls next week to access my starting position. i was thinking of doing a progression like this what do you guys think? oh and also i will not be doing deficits next wek just rack pulls.

65x5(full deadlift just to get the blood flowing)
then all sets following are from the racks below the knees-

155x10
275x5
365x1
420x1
440x1

im thinking the jumps might be to great, but like hazerboy said i think a problem of mine is i do to much before lifting the ehavy stuff and thus i am tired before i hit my prs any good advice would be appreciated.

rbtrout
04-17-2009, 04:20 PM
My weakness if from the floor, so deficit deads are the ticket to helping me - grip strength, too.

Frankly, I think you'll find warming up with 155X10 a waste. I'll do several sets of squats to warm up my body and then start with 495 or so. You're not that heavy, yet, but I'd start a bit heavier and work my way up with fewer reps performed.
Maybe this -
225X5
315X3
365X1
405X1
425X1
445X1

rctriplefresh5
04-17-2009, 08:12 PM
hey man thanks a lot. ill definately use that warmup. as for the grip stregth being helped by the deficit deadlifts. i have no problem with grip stregth. i AM a genetic failure for all things lifting,. however when i t comes to grip stregth i am pretty impressed with it. i plan on attempting that 440 rack pull with double overhand grip(not hook grip) and just chalk.

Kiknskreem
04-17-2009, 09:10 PM
- im thinking of maxing out on rack pulls next week to access my starting position. i was thinking of doing a progression like this what do you guys think? oh and also i will not be doing deficits next wek just rack pulls.

65x5(full deadlift just to get the blood flowing)
then all sets following are from the racks below the knees-

155x10
275x5
365x1
420x1
440x1





my current deadlift max is 405 while standing on a 35 pound plate. today i was weaker than usual however and couldnt even get 405 once(was going for 2 since i got 400x2 last week) this was also attempted and done on a 35 pounds plate.


So your max is 405 at a deficiet.... two weeks ago you pulled 400x2, the next week you go for 405 and miss it, and the following week you want to pull a max rack pull?

You are doing too many max or circa max pulls.

dumbbell
04-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Someone please enlighten me. I've never heard the term "deficit deadlifts." Are you guys referring to an extended range of motion, like standing on a raised platform or something?

Kiknskreem
04-17-2009, 09:11 PM
Someone please enlighten me. I've never heard the term "deficit deadlifts." Are you guys referring to an extended range of motion, like standing on a raised platform or something?

Exactly.

rctriplefresh5
04-17-2009, 09:22 PM
So your max is 405 at a deficiet.... two weeks ago you pulled 400x2, the next week you go for 405 and miss it, and the following week you want to pull a max rack pull?

You are doing too many max or circa max pulls.
well i want to cut out deficits all together since obviously my lockout is what my weakness is. i wanted to get a good starting point to see where istand. i figured i wont be deadlifting for a week so i should be recovered? if thats not a good idea what rep ranges do you think would be best given my max of 415 yesterday on rack pulls?

Someone please enlighten me. I've never heard the term "deficit deadlifts." Are you guys referring to an extended range of motion, like standing on a raised platform or something?


Exactly.

yeah i just stack 1.5-4 inches of plates grip and rip.

Kiknskreem
04-17-2009, 09:41 PM
well i want to cut out deficits all together since obviously my lockout is what my weakness is. i wanted to get a good starting point to see where istand. i figured i wont be deadlifting for a week so i should be recovered? if thats not a good idea what rep ranges do you think would be best given my max of 415 yesterday on rack pulls?

If I was in your shoes I would just keep doing regular deadlifs, maybe some chain work, perhaps alternate pulls from the floor with rack pulls while getting my squat up to par.

evilxxx
04-17-2009, 09:42 PM
I just did Deadlift today and did mid shin, knees, deficit and RDL(in that order) after doing deficits with 315 i though i was done and was just gonna get 3-4 reps with 405 RDL...I have never felt 405 so light and got 8 reps and 5 on a second set ! it actually felt lighter all the way thru than 315 from a 4" deficit.

rctriplefresh5
04-17-2009, 09:45 PM
If I was in your shoes I would just keep doing regular deadlifs, maybe some chain work, perhaps alternate pulls from the floor with rack pulls while getting my squat up to par.
no doubt, i need to get my squat up to par. ill probably alternate like youre saying but next week im gonna give the deficits a try.

Kiknskreem
04-17-2009, 09:49 PM
no doubt, i need to get my squat up to par. ill probably alternate like youre saying but next week im gonna give the deficits a try.

In that case I'd say no reason to do a 1RM, give your CNS a break. I'd work up to a conservative set of 3-5, that's enough to get an idea about where you're at, and over the next however many weeks you rack pull just add a reasonable number (20lbs maybe) to that first week until you start hitting real PR's.

rctriplefresh5
04-18-2009, 11:20 AM
made a typo meant that im going to be doing rack pulls next week. i guess instead of working up to a single of 440 ill go to about 420. i mean i hit 415 after all those sets of deadlifts and i got 440 off the racks so i dont think 420 will tax me so hard.? but then again who knows.