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bencher8
04-17-2009, 10:05 PM
OK..I have been training for a while now lol but I got to thinking today about rev band training....and thats usually a dangerous thing lol

I have been doing rev bands with a blue band early in the training cycle and the go to rev green bands later in the training cycle. I like doing rev bands for a few reasons..

1. It lets me touch weight in a shirt in a training cycle without killing me
2. It lets me train my CNS
3. Its fun! lol

Here is the problem though...when I use the blue bands(they deload by 150 pounds) I have been working up to 1000# before I can really touch with the weight. I might max at 1050 or 1100+ using the blues.

My question is this...should I use the blue bands anymore(considering I have to use such crazy weights) or should I downgrade the bands an use the greens as the max deload bands and then go purples later in the training cycle? Have I reached a max return on blue bands?

Travis Bell
04-17-2009, 10:21 PM
This is how Greg and I can get away with not really using boards much at all for shirt training. When I want to put a heavy weight in my hands, I use reverse green bands. I can usually end up around 855 or so in my shirt. Yet I'm still able to train my full range of movement. We've been using it as our main "overload" exercise since last spring.

I figure 855 is plenty enough.

Personally I feel that his whole CNS business has gotten blown way out of proportion. You really only need to put just a little more stress on your body than you actually plan on lifting to create a difference in feeling. Guys are trying to bench hundreds of pounds more off boards compared to their full range, because they have to train their CNS? It just makes no sense to me. A little extra weight yes, but hundreds of pounds? No.

Normally I only go a little over 800 with the reverse green bands. I figure I'm aiming for 800, when I'm ready to bench 900 I'll go a little over 900.

Blue bands do two things that I don't like. The first being, as you said, they take too much off at the bottom. The second is they create far more speed than I'm going to get off of straight weight. The added speed makes the lift feel much easier. I can go close to 950 with reverse bands, but what's the point? It's so far past what I'm capable of benching right now, the exercise has lost it's effectiveness. I feel that anyone using reverse blue bands in a shirt isn't doing themselves any favors. Raw is another story, but in a shirt is just overkill IMO.

Conversely, reverse purples are just as much a waste of your time because they aren't taking enough off to make a difference, but do add enough tension that it will play with your groove and mess you up. I don't really care for reverse purple bands either.

So for you Paul, you're aiming for 900lb bench, so I'd shoot at the most to put 950 in your hands personally.

bencher8
04-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Thats a good reply..I have asked one other person about this and they thought that rev blues might be useful, but greens might be as much as I need. I think I might just use greens....cause when I am using blues, I might need to start using the squat bar to get the weight on there lol I gotta admit it takes a little fun out of it though...nothing like putting 1050-1100 on a bar and benching it...even if I know I cant do that much lol

vdizenzo
04-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Thanks for the helpful info guys. I am going to be using reverse bands pretty much for the first time. I am going to use them raw and shirted. Greens for both Trav?

Travis Bell
04-18-2009, 05:20 AM
Yeah that seems to work for me best.

Reverse blues raw every now and then doesn't seem to hurt because they take enough off at the bottom I can mimmick my shirt form almost exactly, without actually wearing my shirt, yet still use a lot less weight than I would in my shirt.

It make take a couple sets to get the position right, since you can't sit right under the bands because it'll pull you forward with your bar path will want to arc back on it's way up, but if you sit too far back from the bar it'll make it difficult to touch in the right spot (low enough) so just kinda mess with your position on the bench a little and you'll find the right set up.

ACaslow
04-18-2009, 09:31 AM
Personally I feel that his whole CNS business has gotten blown way out of proportion. You really only need to put just a little more stress on your body than you actually plan on lifting to create a difference in feeling. Guys are trying to bench hundreds of pounds more off boards compared to their full range, because they have to train their CNS? It just makes no sense to me. A little extra weight yes, but hundreds of pounds? No.

Totally Travis. I remember talking to Rick about reverse bands and he said the majority of lifters abuse the crap out of this system. If your jumping 10% over what you can do the return to the CNS is nill, because in order to go that high there is too much bands to do anything without soo much band assistance. I have never gone more 40-50lbs above my max on bench and never more than about 50lbs on squat as well.



Conversely, reverse purples are just as much a waste of your time because they aren't taking enough off to make a difference, but do add enough tension that it will play with your groove and mess you up. I don't really care for reverse purple bands either.

Absolutely, but for those following this thread, approach this method with relative comparisons. If you bench 400, greens are not for you, purples would be your ticket. Let's make it relative with your strength.. otherwise you run into the same issues as Travis running with blues etc... This make sense?

ACaslow
04-18-2009, 09:35 AM
Thanks for the helpful info guys. I am going to be using reverse bands pretty much for the first time. I am going to use them raw and shirted. Greens for both Trav?

I wouldn't use any bands on you, your too short for bands... :D

bencher8
04-18-2009, 07:23 PM
I can see the strength to band usage ratio...but How did he come up with the 10% rule? Is this number based on a meet max, gym PR, or a hypothetical max?

The last I saw at BIG they were doing some rev band stuff with brds and shirts and crazy weights. They were using those thick black bands and going way over there expected max...is this no longer the thought there?

All I know is that I have seen big increases in tri strength with overloading in the last cycle. I did raw 4 brd work, shirted 2 and 3 brds, and rev bands(using blue and green bands). I know it didnt lead to a big PR in the meet, but that wasnt due to training, that was due to my technical issues lol

I am planning on using greens from now on...at least most of the time.

Travis Bell
04-18-2009, 07:24 PM
Absolutely, but for those following this thread, approach this method with relative comparisons. If you bench 400, greens are not for you, purples would be your ticket. Let's make it relative with your strength.. otherwise you run into the same issues as Travis running with blues etc... This make sense?

Good point, I guess I was thinking in relation to Paul, but this is a general good principle.

MarcusWild
04-18-2009, 07:25 PM
It's not benching, but I know Louie advocates not going more than 10% over your max on rack pulls. If you can, then it means you need to go off a lower pin. I can't say I understand why he says it. It's just one of those things in his articles.

Travis Bell
04-18-2009, 07:30 PM
I can see the 10% rule being effective for the 500+ benchers. Honestly, I don't even go that far more times than not

SELK
04-18-2009, 08:12 PM
Interesting, ive heard of the guys from BIG doing shirted reverse band 3 boards with 300+ over their maxes. Do they not do this anymore?

ACaslow
04-18-2009, 09:09 PM
Allright, the 10% idea simply came from ME (not max effort, but ME AL CASLOW) because via math that is what I see in the gym. Noone ever goes higher than 10%, and I have only seen 10% a few times.

As far as the tricep day (reverse band boards with shirts ala BIG IRON), please keep things in perspective. We're talking about a 3 board and a 4 board so that automatically increases the loads that one can handle, on top of that we are adding the bands. So, What someone can handle of a 3 board is not necessarily what they can handle off their chest now is it? So, that means that a whole new PR needs to be kept in mind. This day is exclusively for feel. When Rick has me do reverse band shirted boarded work, which is only once in a blue moon, we use both greens and purples. So the weight never really feels like 800. EVER because the band tension off the rack already adds something. I really wouldn't recommend this method to anyone anyways, Rick has his way of doing it, so if your really interested in this then my suggestion is to discuss it with him.

But again, you have to be relative to what your doing. I don't compare my best meet squat to a sky high banded squat. So don't compare what you can do off your chest to what you can do to a 4 board with multiple reverse bands. The "crazy weights" and the "300+" I'm sure has happened, but I have never seen it. The most I have seen is Jimmy is going 900+ too a 3 board for triples, off his chest yes that's over 10% but off the 3 baord???????????????? does this make sense? I'm never very well explained... so bare with me.

SELK
04-18-2009, 10:25 PM
Makes sense Al, thanks for explaining that.

I bought the bench training logs that was availible a while back and saw some 1000+ (and i think an 1100lbs one) benches by the lifter who had a max around 750-800 if i remember right. But your right, i guess what an 800lbs presser could do off 3 boards could even be 900, so its really only around a 10% overload (likely not quite that as the bands are helping).

bencher8
04-19-2009, 07:26 AM
You explained well enough Al...I just was curious as to the 10% number. I did the math as well and it was about right...

and your right about the different PR's...I was mixing the 3 brd shirted work with shirted off your chest PR's, thanks for the info!

Rob Luyando
04-20-2009, 10:47 AM
OK once again my 2 cents...........

Paul called me with this question thew other day and I let him ramble on for a while and gave him and answer with out putting to much thought into it. He called me on a Sunday and Sunday is my resting day so I don't put to much effort into anything on Sunday. Now that my work out week is back under way and I read this post right before heading out to the gym I had some time to think about it.

Bencher8's #3 point is most important! If your not having fun why do it!

I have done reverse band from time to time over the years. Do they help? Hell Yes. I don't care what tension or color band you choose to use. For me I always did them raw and full range. I normally jacked up the tension and handled 100 lbs more than my equiped pr. I think its great for transition into equipment. Concentrating on speed out of the whole and lock out strength and shocking your cns at the same time. I think its important to handle as heavy weight as possible.

Now with a shirt I am a firm believer that if your gonna do reverse bands in a shirt you need to be handling heavy ass weight. If your goal is a 800 lbs bench then your reverse set should be full range with atleast 1000 lbs of weight on the bar. You have to **** with your cns holding heavier weight strengthening your lock out at the same time. Keep in mind that I only do these about once every two months.

I prefer straight weight training in a shirt. I love using boards for many reasons. It saves my shoulders from getting beat up to bad and allows me to handle heavier work loads. Again with brds you need to handle as heavy of a weight as you can handle. 800 goal then you should be handling around 875 off a 2 brd. Keep in mind that when you get used to handling the heavier sets off of brds your goal weight is going to feel lighter in your hands.

I have had the brd discussion with the king Kennelly. And before our last conversation I would never go higher then a 2brd in a shirt. With his knowledge and success my opinion and training strategy has changed some. Ryan convinced me to start trying 3 brds with shirt work. Once again so you are able to hold hevier weight and tax your body that much less. His idea is that now that he closing in on 1100 lbs that he needs to be handling @ 1200 lbs. 1 or 2 brd work tears him up to much so he change to a 3brd. So when I start with equipment again i will be throwing heavy 3 brd sets in.

Keep in mind that brds and bands are great training tools but you still need to do straight weight full range singles to master your form. You can handle all the wieght in the world with boards and bands but if your form with straight weight sucks then its not doing you a bit of good.

Once again the fat kid has spoken!

bencher8
04-20-2009, 06:05 PM
jeez...I call you with an important question and you blew me off cause it was sun? You should be getting in the gym and instead you are too focused on eating family size tuscani pasta dishes to give me good answers...

I still got up to 1000 with the greens so I guess I was ok lol

MarcusWild
04-20-2009, 06:22 PM
You need to stop messing around with 800 lbs at meets then. I'm sure Rob will tell you that to in his own friendly way. Haha

Rob Luyando
04-20-2009, 07:05 PM
You need to stop messing around with 800 lbs at meets then. I'm sure Rob will tell you that to in his own friendly way. Haha

LMAO! Bencher8 has yet to put his potential and ability on the platform. As for his last meet he onyl did 800 which was a safe opener for him. I will give him big props for that 800 bench because he showed disciplin that so many lifters don't have. Most guys miss there opener for what ever reason and come back and take an even higher 2nd attempt and miss again and then miss an even higher 3rd attempt. (And yes I have been guilty of this on two occasions and both resulted in a bomb!) **** your 1st attempt up stay at same weight till you get it right! Bencher8 did just that at his last meet made corrections from his mistakes and finished the meet with out bombing. In my book that meet was a kick asss learning exsperience for him and will only improve his game.

Rob Luyando
04-20-2009, 07:07 PM
jeez...I call you with an important question and you blew me off cause it was sun? You should be getting in the gym and instead you are too focused on eating family size tuscani pasta dishes to give me good answers...

I still got up to 1000 with the greens so I guess I was ok lol


I didn't blow you off I just didn't put a lot of thought into it. Sorry bro I was tore up from Sat work out and waisted my time staying up for UFC.

And read above 900 lbs = 1100 rev bands!

vdizenzo
04-20-2009, 07:19 PM
I didn't blow you off I just didn't put a lot of thought into it. Sorry bro I was tore up from Sat work out and waisted my time staying up for UFC.

And read above 900 lbs = 1100 rev bands!

Wow, I never knew Paul was so sensitive.

Both the Liddell and Silva fights were letdowns.

bencher8
04-20-2009, 08:54 PM
Im not sensitive....Im just a nice guy! lol

I was just messin with Rob..Im sure he understood that...

and yes, he has told me, in his own FRIENDLY way, that I should stop messing around with 800 pounds in meets..on more than 1 occasion lol I have actually heard that from Rob, Clay, George, Sebastian....a lot of guys lol I just dont listen well....

I wanted to throw my X on and see what I could do in the tight shirt, but after feeling the way I did, I just wanted to get done lol