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BFGUITAR
04-27-2009, 03:24 PM
I am curious what you guys have used to increase your raw total. Currently I am using Wender's 5/3/1 (have been for the past 2 months). It has been working for my squat nicely, but not so much for me for my deadlift or bench. I perhaps may have over estimated my numbers (most likely). What style routine has worked for your raw total? I am thinking of going back to bill starr's 5x5 but am not sure. I have a decent idea of what I need to work on, but I would like to hear your opinions. Input from the pros here is greatly appreciated :).

Keith
04-27-2009, 03:38 PM
Stick with Wendler's 5/3/1.

Low starting numbers are essential for this program. Have you been de-loading? I'll be the first to admit I'm impatient and want to make every damn session a ME one or else I'll feel like I'm doing jack **** but I'm starting to realize I need to start listening to people who are more experienced and stronger than me. Wendler stresses de-loading and starting with low numbers for this program to truly be effective.

Guido
04-27-2009, 03:43 PM
Agreed. I took his advice and started using the conservative numbers as a starting point and it's worked out nicely. Like the OP said it's helped me most on squat, but I've also put about 20lbs on my DL in the past 4 months (which isn't bad for me). It's helped my bench the least but then nothing seems to help me with that.

I'd stick with the 5-3-1 a bit longer, though, and see where it takes you.

METAL VIPER
04-27-2009, 03:43 PM
I enjoy the Texas Method. I had been doing that until January and had to have surgery. After 4 months off, I'm running Starting Strength until I get back to Texas Method.

BFGUITAR
04-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Question about your deloading.

After squats I usually do 3x10 of highbar squats, should I still try and hit a rep PR or a weight PR while deloading? Also on bench day for deloading I hit triceps heavy, should I perhaps not do that?

What is the Texas method?

Pete22
04-27-2009, 03:54 PM
I've been using a modified Westside template for almost a year now, and my raw lifts have gone up considerably. I think the stigma of it being a "geared only" training style is just wrong.

Keith
04-27-2009, 04:08 PM
After squats I usually do 3x10 of highbar squats, should I still try and hit a rep PR or a weight PR while deloading? Also on bench day for deloading I hit triceps heavy, should I perhaps not do that?

If you're de-loading, then de-load! Shooting for a rep or weight PR is not de-loading in any way. Neither is hitting any body part "heavy". Bring everything down.

BFGUITAR
04-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Ok will do, thanks!

Dingus
04-27-2009, 05:28 PM
Question about your deloading.

After squats I usually do 3x10 of highbar squats, should I still try and hit a rep PR or a weight PR while deloading? Also on bench day for deloading I hit triceps heavy, should I perhaps not do that?

What is the Texas method?

Wendler says to deload everything on the deload week. Less volume and less weight. So I'd say just go light and don't try for PR's.

HP666
04-27-2009, 06:00 PM
5/3/1

And just realize, you can't do the 531 for two months. This is a program designed for the long haul. You need to give it at least a year. Do it as it says, deload as prescribed. There is a reason for this.

I know it probably goes against every fiber of your being, but on the deload week ONLY do the main exercise for the day,(at the proper deload weights), then call it a day. Just drop the accessory work even. You WILL NOT get weaker, or smaller, I promise.

MarcusWild
04-27-2009, 07:03 PM
I agree the stigma of Westside only works for multi-ply is unjustified. Look at what Super Training is doing by applying the principles to single-ply lifting. Westside works whether it's raw, single, or multi.

We have 3 raw lifters that are making great progress with it in a short time period. All three were using different training methods before and had plateaued.

Cmanuel
04-27-2009, 07:33 PM
I think any of the above recommendations should work well, Just pick something and stick with it. If you dedicate yourself and train like you are supposed to there is no way your total CAN'T go up.

METAL VIPER
04-27-2009, 09:49 PM
What is the Texas method?
Texas Method (http://stronglifts.com/the-texas-method-strength-training-for-intermediate-lifters/)
Keep in mind this is a template, not a flat routine. You can customize it as you like.

HP666
04-27-2009, 10:19 PM
I agree the stigma of Westside only works for multi-ply is unjustified. Look at what Super Training is doing by applying the principles to single-ply lifting. Westside works whether it's raw, single, or multi.

We have 3 raw lifters that are making great progress with it in a short time period. All three were using different training methods before and had plateaued.


It works for a strictly raw lifter but the use of bands and chains are much less necessary.

MarcusWild
04-27-2009, 10:48 PM
I'd disagree. I think bands and chains are essential. It's a key part of developing maximal rate of force deployment.

Travis Bell
04-27-2009, 11:25 PM
Westside works excellent for the raw lifter

Bands and chains also will speed progression and open up many more options for the lifter

So it's not a matter of essential or non essential, rather just a preference on the number of options.

I'm a huge fan of variety in training and feel that bands and chains really add this factor. When training raw, you just use a little less tension weight.

The morning crew at Westside trains bench raw 3 weeks out of the month. 5 of us have well over 500 raw benches and one is quite close to a 600.

lil' power
04-28-2009, 09:53 AM
Westside works excellent for the raw lifter

Bands and chains also will speed progression and open up many more options for the lifter


Yea that :thumbup:

Started lifting Westside probably around August 2008...see the differences? Almost a 100# total increase at a lower weight....Westside WORKS-bands included!

Last total: June 2008 165 Women’s Master class 45-49 RAW /weight: 164
Squat: 290#
Bench: 155#
DL: 315#
Total: 760# made Master classification for raw lifters

Last total: April 2009 165 Women’s RAW / weight: 154
Squat: 325#
Bench: 176#
DL: 352#
Total: 854# made Elite classification for raw lifters

BFGUITAR
04-28-2009, 11:16 AM
At the powerlifting gym I will be lifting at I will have access to bands and chains. How could I incorporate them into 5/3/1? For bench my biggest problem is my lockout and for deadlift, lockout as well. For squats I would say the limiting factor is my lower back.

My main lift for bench I was thinking of being floor press and for my main lift for deadlift I was going to do rackpulls. How can I use chains/bands with all this in mind?

Keith
04-28-2009, 11:19 AM
If you have the 5/3/1 book, all of those questions are answered in there. He doesn't recommend using bands or chains at all in the program. I would just stick to what he says, dude.

LINK_313
04-28-2009, 01:38 PM
I prefer Sheiko Training.

I have a couple of questions for the 5/3/1 experts.

Do you think that the frequency on the main lifts is enough?


Do you think that the volume on the main lifts is enough?



Do you think that working with submaximal weights for so long is optimal?


I ran it for 8 cycles taking the standard 10% off of my weights so I have done this routine before. With the questions, I am just curious as to what the experts thoughts are.

HP666
04-28-2009, 09:11 PM
I ran it for 8 cycles taking the standard 10% off of my weights so I have done this routine before. With the questions, I am just curious as to what the experts thoughts are.

You ran it for 8 months?

LINK_313
04-29-2009, 07:29 AM
You ran it for 8 months?

Approximately yes.

barbell01
04-29-2009, 09:16 PM
you aren't going to get stronger by second guessing the programs that you decide to run. you have to believe in the program and get stronger on your own. just keep at it and good things will happen.

Dingus
04-30-2009, 08:28 PM
At the powerlifting gym I will be lifting at I will have access to bands and chains. How could I incorporate them into 5/3/1? For bench my biggest problem is my lockout and for deadlift, lockout as well. For squats I would say the limiting factor is my lower back.

My main lift for bench I was thinking of being floor press and for my main lift for deadlift I was going to do rackpulls. How can I use chains/bands with all this in mind?

Board press with chains or straight weight, or floor press with chains. As far as lockout for deadlift I don't think rack pulls are a good idea, more lat work, DB rows Kroc-style any kind of upper back work.

jbrin0tk
04-30-2009, 09:50 PM
At the powerlifting gym I will be lifting at I will have access to bands and chains. How could I incorporate them into 5/3/1? For bench my biggest problem is my lockout and for deadlift, lockout as well. For squats I would say the limiting factor is my lower back.

My main lift for bench I was thinking of being floor press and for my main lift for deadlift I was going to do rackpulls. How can I use chains/bands with all this in mind?




I think that you idea of using floor press and rack pulls with the 5/3/1 will probably get you really strong at floor pressing and rack pulling...but not necessarily at benching or deadlifting. That's not to say that your bench and deadlift won't get stronger per se; if you put 55lbs. on your floor press, your bench has probably gone up, too. I just don't know if partial range of motion every week/all the time is a good way to train them for a raw lifter. That coming from a guy who loves partial range of motion movements, haha. I think that with raw lifting, a full range of motion is so important. If you like floor presses and rack pulls, perhaps add them in as a heavy secondary exercise after your main exercise.

That's not to say that straight weight to the chest and deads from the floor is the only way....just trying to point out the importance of training a full range of motion for a raw lifter.

BFGUITAR
05-02-2009, 03:43 PM
Ok some news...
At the gym I train at, they are very focused around westside barbell training and they offered me to train with them in this manner. They have all the gear from bands to chains to board presses and even that cool apparatus that allows one to do front squats/zercher squats comfortably. I can either do the 5/3/1 routine OR join them and follow what they do. I will be lifting raw (only belt and wraps).

What do you guys suggest?

Pete22
05-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Train with the guys from your gym. They will push you to get stronger everyday, and training in a group atmosphere will keep you focused and accountable. It's not even about the program anymore, b/c you'll get strong with whatever you choose, but training with a group of guys that sound dedicated and know what they're doing is invaluable.

tyler
05-02-2009, 07:30 PM
westside style of traing for raw and it works great for me

MarcusWild
05-02-2009, 11:00 PM
Train with the guys from your gym. They will push you to get stronger everyday, and training in a group atmosphere will keep you focused and accountable. It's not even about the program anymore, b/c you'll get strong with whatever you choose, but training with a group of guys that sound dedicated and know what they're doing is invaluable.


I agree 100% and Westside works for raw lifters too.

BFGUITAR
05-03-2009, 02:07 AM
Ok thanks guys!

Big_Byrd52
05-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Ok some news...
At the gym I train at, they are very focused around westside barbell training and they offered me to train with them in this manner. They have all the gear from bands to chains to board presses and even that cool apparatus that allows one to do front squats/zercher squats comfortably. I can either do the 5/3/1 routine OR join them and follow what they do. I will be lifting raw (only belt and wraps).

What do you guys suggest?

U will benefit far more from the group intensity on a mediocre program than from any perfect program training alone. Train with the group and modify as needed.

Tim K
05-11-2009, 08:11 PM
Ok some news...
At the gym I train at, they are very focused around westside barbell training and they offered me to train with them in this manner. They have all the gear from bands to chains to board presses and even that cool apparatus that allows one to do front squats/zercher squats comfortably. I can either do the 5/3/1 routine OR join them and follow what they do. I will be lifting raw (only belt and wraps).

What do you guys suggest?

Train with the guys at the gym. :strong: Myself, I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and will continue for at least a year. But then again, I'm old, broken, and worn out. :D

Guido
05-11-2009, 09:46 PM
Train with the guys at the gym. :strong: Myself, I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and will continue for at least a year. But then again, I'm old, broken, and worn out. :DI second that. I am doing 5-3-1 right now with a group and honestly I think it's training with the group that's pushing me to get better as much as the program. Training with the right people makes all the difference.