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evilxxx
04-28-2009, 12:57 PM
My countdown to the SSA oct 17th meet started yesterday and I wanted some opinions on a variation I want to do with my deadlift, as of now I got 2 days of everything a week but I just want some advice on this, would be a good idea to cycle the ME days like this example : week 1 ME -deficits, week 2 ME- RDL, week 3 ME- from the shin , week 4 DE RDL, week 5 repeat...I tried this before with good gains but not including deficits. there is also a second day of back work a week that I plan on using for knee pulls, low row, pull downs and other asst stuff. In the past my week point was the lockout but thats not an issue anymore,now it seems like my initial pull is slow then it speeds up after mid shin.

Travis Bell
04-28-2009, 01:00 PM
You pull sumo or conventional?

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 01:03 PM
You pull sumo or conventional?

Conventional

Travis Bell
04-28-2009, 02:17 PM
try training sumo and then throw some conventional deficit pulls in there as well

MarcusWild
04-28-2009, 02:21 PM
When you say you have 2 days of everything a week, do you mean you have 2 bench days, 2 squat days, and you want a deadlift day??? I'm confused on that part.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 02:45 PM
When you say you have 2 days of everything a week, do you mean you have 2 bench days, 2 squat days, and you want a deadlift day??? I'm confused on that part.

Yes one light and one heavy of each...that seem to be what worked best for me in the past so im gonna try sticking to it for now.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 02:47 PM
try training sumo and then throw some conventional deficit pulls in there as well

Would I get some benefit by doing sumo from the shins too to get used to it or just stick to it from the floor?

MarcusWild
04-28-2009, 02:57 PM
Holy cow, and you're going to deadlift heavy once a week? I think this is a path to over training. I can't imagine doing ME deadlift and ME squat in the same week on different days.

mike95763
04-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Holy cow, and you're going to deadlift heavy once a week? I think this is a path to over training. I can't imagine doing ME deadlift and ME squat in the same week on different days.

I used to do this and it pretty much sucked. I was tired all the time and was stalling on some of my lifts. I switched to deads and squats on the same day and that worked much better. Now I am trying deads one week and squats the next. I am not sure how my squats and deads are doing, but my bench is doing well. Basically, I agree with Marcus. For me ME squats and deads on different days in the same week did not work.

endymion88
04-28-2009, 03:08 PM
i personally also like keeping ME squats and deads on the same day, pretty sure i'd be in a coma if i tried doing them on seperate days.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Holy cow, and you're going to deadlift heavy once a week? I think this is a path to over training. I can't imagine doing ME deadlift and ME squat in the same week on different days.

you think it should be better both on the same day , the ME squat with the DE deadlift and the ME deads with the DE Squats?

Travis Bell
04-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Would I get some benefit by doing sumo from the shins too to get used to it or just stick to it from the floor?

Your week should go like this

ME squat/deadlift
ME Bench
DE Squat/deadlift
DE bench

You should most certainly not be pulling twice and squatting twice a week on seperate days.

Just stick to sumo from the floor

Cards
04-28-2009, 03:22 PM
try training sumo and then throw some conventional deficit pulls in there as well

i'm just curious why he would train sumo if he pulls conventional? target the hams and glutes more instead of lower back?

I would guess that you would train the movement and parts of the movement that needed work. Wouldn't a sumo deadlift be changing the lift entirly? I guess I'm stuck in the mind set of train the movement not the muscles.

I'm just curious, not trying to start and argument and what not.

Tom Mutaffis
04-28-2009, 03:22 PM
I have always found that front squats improve my speed off of the floor on deadlifts. Another exercise that some people like are "bottoms up" squats or "pin" squats - where you start off from the bottom of the lift and explode out of the hole.

As for a training cycle to peak for the meet, I don't have much experience with that for powerlifting so others would be better suited to give you a program there.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 03:37 PM
Your week should go like this

ME squat/deadlift
ME Bench
DE Squat/deadlift
DE bench

You should most certainly not be pulling twice and squatting twice a week on seperate days.

Just stick to sumo from the floor

I think this is what i'm gonna stick with after this week is done...Thanks

any rep range suggestions on DE?

since im just coming back and the last 4 months my strength has gone up quick im open to all advice , right now everything I been trying seems to work..hehe just my bench is at a stand by due to my right shoulder.

Im gonna try Tom's suggestion too doing the Squat starting at the bottom...

MarcusWild
04-28-2009, 03:47 PM
The training split Travis explained is what I use. I think of my training in 3 week waves or blocks. It goes like this:

Week 1: max squat
Week 2: max deadlift
Week 3: max GM
Week 4: Deload which is usually raw rep work.

You can really do weeks 1-3 in any order. You can also prioritize something more often if it's really a weakness. I've done it where 2 of the weeks are squat before. I've also done it where 2 of the weeks are deadlifts before.

Then on DE day you:
8-12 sets of 2 reps for DE squat
6-12 sets of 1 rep for DE deadlift

Do appropriate assistance work for your weaknesses on both days.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 05:16 PM
The training split Travis explained is what I use. I think of my training in 3 week waves or blocks. It goes like this:

Week 1: max squat
Week 2: max deadlift
Week 3: max GM
Week 4: Deload which is usually raw rep work.

You can really do weeks 1-3 in any order. You can also prioritize something more often if it's really a weakness. I've done it where 2 of the weeks are squat before. I've also done it where 2 of the weeks are deadlifts before.

Then on DE day you:
8-12 sets of 2 reps for DE squat
6-12 sets of 1 rep for DE deadlift

Do appropriate assistance work for your weaknesses on both days.

Thanks, im gonna stick with the lighter GM's for now since I am new to those and work on the form before I go and do Max GM's.

MarcusWild
04-28-2009, 05:31 PM
That's an excellent plan. That was how I'd introduce new exercises or variants when I started. I'd do them as an accessory 1-3 times until I felt like I had decent technique. Then I'd add them to the ME rotation. As you get more experience with random stuff, then you can just pick something new and go with it for a ME movement. Now I rarely repeat ME movements.

Travis Bell
04-28-2009, 07:12 PM
Marcus is right on

Dave Schwab
04-28-2009, 08:02 PM
You've gotten some good advice in this thread. In addition to the deficit pulls, I'd also suggest pulling against bands for speed, light or moderate bar weight. You can do this both from the floor and from pins. This won't be overly difficult to move off the floor, so focus on exploding from the floor. And the higher the tension, the faster you have to pull to beat the bands, otherwise a slow start will result in a very difficult lockout.

evilxxx
04-28-2009, 08:37 PM
You've gotten some good advice in this thread. In addition to the deficit pulls, I'd also suggest pulling against bands for speed, light or moderate bar weight. You can do this both from the floor and from pins. This won't be overly difficult to move off the floor, so focus on exploding from the floor. And the higher the tension, the faster you have to pull to beat the bands, otherwise a slow start will result in a very difficult lockout.

No access to bands now but I wanna get a few, there is a rack that I can use at the Y to choke them at the bottom. what color should I get just to start? I was thinking about going to home depot and investing in some chains , I looked at the pricing and I think it would be cheap to build a set and just keep adding to it later.

SELK
04-29-2009, 02:53 AM
For me just keeping it simple (ie linear periodization) has worked by far the best. For the deadlift I think that basic training methods work excellent. I don't have the best pull but it is improving.

more or less ive found this works best for me:
- use basic linear periodization (which I still think the theory behind it sucks, but my pull is moving haha)
- train assistance movements real heavy, no leg curls and crap like that.. SLDLs, RDLs, Bentover rows, good mornings, etc.
- work on technique all the time
- pull heavy every week, not ME heavy though.

I dont have the greatest pull (661) but its improving quickly. I think with just basic methods ill crack 700 soon.

evilxxx
04-29-2009, 03:28 AM
For me just keeping it simple (ie linear periodization) has worked by far the best. For the deadlift I think that basic training methods work excellent. I don't have the best pull but it is improving.

more or less ive found this works best for me:
- use basic linear periodization (which I still think the theory behind it sucks, but my pull is moving haha)
- train assistance movements real heavy, no leg curls and crap like that.. SLDLs, RDLs, Bentover rows, good mornings, etc.
- work on technique all the time
- pull heavy every week, not ME heavy though.

I dont have the greatest pull (661) but its improving quickly. I think with just basic methods ill crack 700 soon.

Thats what I was doing back when i started powerlifting in 01-02...just linear and some other basic stuff too. got me from mid 3's to high 5's in like 24-30 months...dont know how good that is. But now after the long break and with what I know and all the advice I should be able to break 6's soon. Glad you mentioned about not pulling ME heavy but pulling heavy...that was another question I was just thinking about...

evilxxx
04-29-2009, 03:48 AM
Just looking at my journal, at the end of dec08 I had a hard time pulling 385x1,today I did 500x 3 after already going heavy from the shins(with a loose suit and straps down) hopefully 580-600 will be here by oct.

Dave Schwab
04-29-2009, 07:20 AM
No access to bands now but I wanna get a few, there is a rack that I can use at the Y to choke them at the bottom. what color should I get just to start? I was thinking about going to home depot and investing in some chains , I looked at the pricing and I think it would be cheap to build a set and just keep adding to it later.

Mini-bands would be good enough to get started, would work both from pulling from the floor as well as pulling from a rack. Minis are also good for speed bench training.

=Travis=
04-29-2009, 07:20 AM
I was thinking about going to home depot and investing in some chains , I looked at the pricing and I think it would be cheap to build a set and just keep adding to it later.

I don't think you'll find big enough chains at Home Depot, I've looked and not found any at my local Home Depot anyway. Look for a rigging supply and they'll have them.

Reko
04-29-2009, 07:25 AM
I don't think you'll find big enough chains at Home Depot, I've looked and not found any at my local Home Depot anyway. Look for a rigging supply and they'll have them.

This is true. And you will certianly spend an arm and a leg trying to get an inadequate amount of chain.

Rigging might work (wouldn't know), but shipping places have beefy chains which are AWESOME!
Rail yards, junk yards, steel mills, lumber mills, anywhere where incredibly heavy machinery is used or is used to carry/transport heavy stuff will likely have a ton of chain. If they have older stuff that might not meet specs anymore you might be able to pick some up on teh cheap.

evilxxx
04-29-2009, 10:00 AM
Mini-bands would be good enough to get started, would work both from pulling from the floor as well as pulling from a rack. Minis are also good for speed bench training.
Thanks


I don't think you'll find big enough chains at Home Depot, I've looked and not found any at my local Home Depot anyway. Look for a rigging supply and they'll have them.

Actually around here Lowes is very limited but I was surprised to see how many bigger diameter chains Home depot sells...I think there is one of those rigging supply places around so im gonna have to check it out..thanks