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pmm10990
04-30-2009, 12:14 PM
I am thrower in my high school and i now know that oly lifts are a biig part of the ability to throw. I also have been lifting for 4 years and prefer powerlifting. My question is, can i mix the oly lifts with the big 3, or is it not suggested?

=Travis=
04-30-2009, 12:28 PM
In season I'd stick with explosive movements and use the big three for bulking out of season. That's atleast how most Highland Game guys suggest, though I don't necessarily do it that way. On squatting, just try to make it explosive.

pmm10990
04-30-2009, 08:37 PM
Ok, so in that case does anyone know of a program that uses the olympic lifts i can start on?

=Travis=
05-01-2009, 07:35 AM
I don't know much about track and field but I do Highland Games which is the precursor to the field events. I'd look for some stuff on the internet written by Dan John.

Rob Luyando
05-01-2009, 07:40 AM
Ok, so in that case does anyone know of a program that uses the olympic lifts i can start on?

Try to get ahold of Travis Mash. He is a former Olympic Lifter and a stud in the Powerlifting world. I am sure he could guide you in the right direction.

Kiknskreem
05-01-2009, 07:48 AM
I am thrower in my high school and i now know that oly lifts are a biig part of the ability to throw. I also have been lifting for 4 years and prefer powerlifting. My question is, can i mix the oly lifts with the big 3, or is it not suggested?

Of course you can; squats, benches, deads, OH Presses, and Power cleans/snatches should probably be the base of your program

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 08:12 AM
well i kinda tried to mix the two in with Wendlers routine. I put em on my squat day, but idk how it will work. How can i get ahold of Travis?

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 08:24 AM
This is plain and simpe... you could easily make a ton of variations on it, for example, if you wanted to do 5/3/1 for the Squat, press, and RDL or you could do something like WS and use different movements on a 4 week cycle.

Clean and Jerk 5x2
Squat
OH Press

Snatch 5x2
Pullups
Bench Press

Front Squat
RDL
BO Row

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 09:45 AM
Are the pull-ups necesary? cause im weighting in at about 240 and i can only do 1 or 2(I played foot ball and didnt work much back or biceps until recently)

Kenny Croxdale
05-01-2009, 10:25 AM
I am thrower in my high school and i now know that oly lifts are a biig part of the ability to throw. I also have been lifting for 4 years and prefer powerlifting. My question is, can i mix the oly lifts with the big 3, or is it not suggested?

pmm,

Yes, you can mix "lifting styles". The poster children for this are Olympic Lifters.

Combining two different method is know as "Conjunctive Training". "Conjunctive Training" is the foundation of an Olympic Lifter's program. Most of the training protocol now used by powerlifters was taken from Olympic Lifter.

Olympic Lifts are power movements. Olympic movement have been shown to produce some of the highest power outputs recorded.

Olympic Lifters perform auxiliary exercise to increase their strength. Those exercise are squats, presses, deadlifts, etc.

As Travis stated, during the season the empasis needs to be on explosive movements. However, some strength training can be performed.

When combining strength and/or power/speed movements in the same workout, power/speed movement need to be performed first. Zenmoney's gave you an example in his post.

As a side note here, speed and power are two different type of strength. Some individuals often refer to speed when they mean power, or vise versa.

Training for speed is different than training for power. Javlin and discus throwers training is gearted a bit more toward speed movements. A hammer or shotputters trainng places a bit more emphasis toward strength.

So, you field event will determine the emphasis of your training program.

Kiknskreem makes a good point, "...squats, benches, deads, OH Presses, and Power cleans/snatches should probably be the base of your program."

The foundation of power and speed is built on strength training. So, as Travis note in his post, during the off season training to increase you limit strength.

Kenny Croxdale

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Are the pull-ups necesary? cause im weighting in at about 240 and i can only do 1 or 2(I played foot ball and didnt work much back or biceps until recently)

Yes. You need strong lats to keep the bar close to you during a snatch or a clean. They are a fantastic upper body movement and should be a staple. You can try variations like kipping pullups to get your pulling endurance higher, but Id recommend doing strict pullups. If you arent good at doing them then you should DEFINITELY practice them.

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 11:56 AM
Ok so i made a sample plan tell me what you think

Monday
Power Clean 3x5
Jerk Press 3x6
Squat 3x6
Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15
Wednesday
Snatch 3x5
Power Snatch 3x6
Front Squat 3x6
Inc Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15
Friday
Clean and Jerk 3x5
Overhear Squat 3x6
Squat 3x6
Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15

This is for six weeks increasing weight each week

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 12:19 PM
Power Clean 3x5
Jerk Press 3x6
Squat 3x6
Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15

Snatch 3x5
Power Snatch 3x6
Front Squat 3x6
Inc Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15

Clean and Jerk 3x5
Overhear Squat 3x6
Squat 3x6
Bench 3x6
SLDL 3x6
Calf Raises 3x8
Abs 3x15


Thats too much. Do the one I suggested. Here is a variation if you like more volume:

Clean and Jerk 5x2
Squat
OH Press
Decline Weighted Situps

Snatch 5x2
OH Squat
Pullups
Bench Press

Jerk Variation 5x2
Front Squat
RDL
BO Row

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 12:22 PM
Ok, so im guess i cant train the Oly lifts like i trained for PL. so i dont need to do all of the diff varriations of the lifts? like hang cleans and pulls and what not?

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 12:30 PM
Ok, so im guess i cant train the Oly lifts like i trained for PL. so i dont need to do all of the diff varriations of the lifts? like hang cleans and pulls and what not?

There are always going to be different schools of thought but I think that you will get most of the benefit of all the variations by doing the entire lifts themselves. Spend your time working on the 2 movements rather than a bunch of fluff. I train to compete in WL and I also like to play rugby and a number of other activities that call for all around strength. This is loosely what I do (M/W/F) and Ive had positive results.

Snatch @ 100% 7x2
Clean and Jerk @ 100%
Front Squat @ 100% 8x3 w/ last 4 sets =
RDL 5x3

Snatch + OH Squat @ 85% 7x2
Front Squat @ 85% OR OH Squats 8x3 w/ last 4 sets =
Upper Push (4 week cycle of OH Press, Incline Press, Dips, OH DB press)

Clean and Jerk @ 85%
Front Squat @ 95% 8x3 w/ last 4 sets =
Upper Pull (4 week cycle of pullups, BO rows, pullups, pendlay rows)

Remember simplicity is your friend. If I were you Id purchase and immediately read Starting Strength by Rippetoe; Weightlifting Olympic Style by Tommy Kono;

In the meantime:
Snatch Demo Series:

Part 1: Setting up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5hKiqBhEs8

Part 2: Dead Hang Snatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNk-T2VF1L8

Part 3: Snatch Balance/Drop Snatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6epczoayrk

Part 4: Pulling Sequence From Above the Knee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsGFiI5YYbA

Part 5: Pulling From Above the Knee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN10ZjuHp_0

Part 6: Pulling Sequence From the Floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rbv9qYdt_g

Part 7: Eccentric Pulling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq0tlv1zJNQ

Part 8: Accessory Pulls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE-PWFaNe08




Jerk Demo Vids:

Part 1: Setting up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOtPcVLBV7E

Part 2: Dipping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN3cL0-OD-I

Part 3: Drive and Catch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtODd6SgL50

Part 4: Jerk Balances
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQS5dksl_Ds

Part 5: Other Types of Jerks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkvzngtCfAs

Part 6: Other Jerk Assistance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI6lofKLQ78



Misc Stuff Regarding Bar Height:

For the Clean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVV8sRPWao

For the Snatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J737WlAwv-o

KingJustin
05-01-2009, 12:35 PM
It will help a lot to work with someone that really knows what they are doing on the Oly lifts. Most of the time those guys are happy to help out.

Sticking to the basics is key. You want to do a lot of work with a few compound movements. No offense, but your training plan was kinda terrible. ZenMonkey's plan is much better. I would recommend that you follow it and don't make changes.

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 04:23 PM
Ok thanks alot guys. i dont think i need starting strength. ive been lifting for a while. i actualmaxed clean and jerk today and was surprised that i did a 205. i used to just clean at a 235 but never did the press. ill stick to zens routine, and ill try to find a guy in my area, how would i go about finding one?

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 04:49 PM
Try your local crossfit. Ill see if I can find a list of coaches for USA WL. If all else fails buy: Weightlifting Olympic Style by Tommy Kono

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 05:51 PM
ok im in jersey.thanks alot man this is a big help. and i look at those videos i was snatchin all wrong. but my cleans were pretty text book. ill see if i can post some vids of mine for critque if u guys could.

ZenMonkey
05-01-2009, 05:52 PM
Please do. Good luck.

pmm10990
05-01-2009, 06:31 PM
Oh i know u gave a a pretty much straight oly routine, and i wanna continue them after the season( i love to clean) im looking for a good mix which is how my w/o came about. any suggestion on a good year round mix?