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BigTallOx
05-06-2009, 09:43 AM
I've been reading articles on the web that suggest isometrics helps build explosive strength ( which seems kind of counter intuitive to me ). Some of the articles suggest that about 10% of your training should consist of isometrics. I was wondering how people here felt about this, and if any people here have used isometrics in their training.

Reko
05-06-2009, 09:52 AM
the closest i get to isometrics is grinding out lifts and hitting sticking points.

Ben Moore
05-06-2009, 09:57 AM
No...

vdizenzo
05-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Too much thinking. The more you think--the more you stink. SFW!

Lones Green
05-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Too much thinking. The more you think--the more you stink. SFW!

Vinnie you just made my sig.

Travis Bell
05-06-2009, 10:43 AM
hahaha good one Vin

I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said by saying not everything on the interwebz is true. Isometrics are pretty worthless for powerlifting

BigTallOx
05-06-2009, 11:42 AM
hahaha good one Vin

I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said by saying not everything on the interwebz is true. Isometrics are pretty worthless for powerlifting

I certantly wasn't suggesting everything on the web was true. One of the articles I found was by Louie Simmons, where he describes how to perform isometric exercise and says "I hope just some small part of this article will awaken your mind to try a new method of training". But in another article he says "Conventional isometrics - that joint-jarring pressing against immovable pins - is unnecessary."

Sensei
05-06-2009, 11:51 AM
I don't ever plan to do isometrics, but the idea is very sound. There are a lot of times when lifting that the weight isn't moving (or barely moving) - isometrics might be an occasional tool for that. Rehab is another application.

I was pushing my car the other day on an incline and it took forever to get that bastage moving... At the time, I really wished I had been training that range of motion better.

I don't know about 10%, but it's probably not a bad idea to do some here and there.

btw, I'd consider pause squats an isometric variation.

BigTallOx
05-06-2009, 01:57 PM
I don't ever plan to do isometrics, but the idea is very sound.

So, just curious, if the idea is sound why do you never plan to do isometrics?

I'm not trying to think too hard, but for me fully understanding the ideas behind something is very helpful.

Jonah
05-06-2009, 02:09 PM
Louie says a lot of things. Most of it makes my head hurt.

Ben Moore
05-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Ask all the top lifters today if they are using isometrics

Brad08
05-06-2009, 02:30 PM
People talk about them a lot. But nobody ever seems to get around to implementing them properly or seriously. And nobody does them long enough to really be able to say they work or don't work.

Sensei
05-06-2009, 02:33 PM
So, just curious, if the idea is sound why do you never plan to do isometrics?
My training is pretty barebones - I don't obsess about things. Most of the time, if I can crawl to the basement to do my jerks, snatches, squats, and pull-ups, I'm damn satisfied.



Ask all the top lifters today if they are using isometricsBen,
I think everyone would agree that the top PLers in the world are using weights in their training (at least on occasion) heavy enough that bar "speed" approaches isometric-like work. I'm just assuming when we talk about isometrics we're NOT talking about the Charles Atlas mail-order program...

samadhi_smiles
05-06-2009, 03:00 PM
I've heard of bodybuilders utilizing an isometric contraction at the end of a bench set (with the weight down and their chest muscles stretched out) in order to 'burn out' - but thats more for hypertrophy I think than strength gains.

How would a PLer use isometrics in their training?

JK1
05-06-2009, 04:40 PM
I've heard of bodybuilders utilizing an isometric contraction at the end of a bench set (with the weight down and their chest muscles stretched out) in order to 'burn out' - but thats more for hypertrophy I think than strength gains.

How would a PLer use isometrics in their training?

The one way that I can see that it will help with training is when you perform a "grinder" type set where the weight is so heavy the bar is moving very, very slowly, if moving at all. I think it is Chuck V. who has made the comments about "learning to strain against the bar". If you keep it simple, doing that in essense somewhat of an isometric contraction.

Ben Moore
05-06-2009, 05:31 PM
You're either doing isometrics or you're not. If there is bar speed at all (ie. The bar is moving) then you are not performing an isometric exercise

And I have implemented them in training and got nothing out of it

barbell01
05-06-2009, 05:42 PM
IMO. isometrics don't make any sence at all. let's say you are benchpressing against pins with 200lbs. and holding it against the pins for any amount of time, say 10 seconds or whatever. how many lbs. of pressure does it really take to hold it there? 201lbs of pressure? there is no way to tell, and even if there was, wouldn't you just rather bench 201lbs. full range for 10 seconds? isometrics? why? ........

mike95763
05-06-2009, 05:51 PM
IMO. isometrics don't make any sence at all. let's say you are benchpressing against pins with 200lbs. and holding it against the pins for any amount of time, say 10 seconds or whatever. how many lbs. of pressure does it really take to hold it there? 201lbs of pressure? there is no way to tell, and even if there was, wouldn't you just rather bench 201lbs. full range for 10 seconds? isometrics? why? ........

I think the point is to press the weight as hard as you can against the pins, not just hold the weight against the pins. Theoretically it is supposed to help with a sticking point. Never tried it myself though so don't know if it works.

Travis Bell
05-06-2009, 06:37 PM
You're either doing isometrics or you're not. If there is bar speed at all (ie. The bar is moving) then you are not performing an isometric exercise

And I have implemented them in training and got nothing out of it


IMO. isometrics don't make any sence at all. let's say you are benchpressing against pins with 200lbs. and holding it against the pins for any amount of time, say 10 seconds or whatever. how many lbs. of pressure does it really take to hold it there? 201lbs of pressure? there is no way to tell, and even if there was, wouldn't you just rather bench 201lbs. full range for 10 seconds? isometrics? why? ........

Agree with both of you.

and BTO, I'd be interested to see that article that you are referring to where Lou recommends isometrics :)

barbell01
05-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I think the point is to press the weight as hard as you can against the pins, not just hold the weight against the pins. Theoretically it is supposed to help with a sticking point. Never tried it myself though so don't know if it works.

i prefer moving the bar through my sticky points, rather than holding the bar at my sticky point with an unknown amount of pressure. if it is truly my sticky point, i think i spend enuff time holding it there anyhow. hahaha

haydn104
05-06-2009, 06:51 PM
I think he is referring to the Jan 2006 article on the Westside website. I'd be curious to hear Louie's current take on it.

barbell01
05-06-2009, 07:04 PM
i would also think that doing isometric holds would only teach you how to hold it there(against the pins) using the least amount of force, for the most amount of time. If that were true, isometric holds would actually be counterproductive.

Travis Bell
05-06-2009, 08:44 PM
I think he is referring to the Jan 2006 article on the Westside website. I'd be curious to hear Louie's current take on it.

Ah, good call. I had forgotten about that article.

We do not do isometrics any longer at Westside nor have we done them with any consistency for a few years. Pin pointing how to make them translate over to a sticking point was difficult and we found that doing limited range of motion movements worked the sticking points faster and stronger.

Just something we've evolved past I guess.

AlMohr
05-07-2009, 08:37 PM
From what I have read isometric contractions produce more force then concentric contractions, but only transfer to about 5-10% in the full ROM making them very specific too the part in the ROM being trained. For most powerlifters getting such a small force transfer is wasteful especially when other, much more effective methods for sticky points are out there.

Kenny Croxdale
05-08-2009, 09:08 AM
From what I have read isometric contractions produce more force then concentric contractions, but only transfer to about 5-10% in the full ROM making them very specific too the part in the ROM being trained. For most powerlifters getting such a small force transfer is wasteful especially when other, much more effective methods for sticky points are out there.

Al,

Isometrics are one of the most effective method you can employ to strengthen you "sticking point."

Two of the biggest proponents of isometric strength training are Chris Thibaudeau and Bill Starr, strength coaches.

The Russians found isomteric strength training to be one of the best method for increasing strength. Secretes of Soviet Sports Fitness and Trainng/Yessis

Dr Mel Siff and Yuri Verkhoshansky go into how effective isometric are in the development of strength, Supertraining.

The problem is a lack of education in isometrics.

Kenny Croxdale

Ben Moore
05-08-2009, 09:15 AM
Al,

Isometrics are one of the most effective method you can employ to strengthen you "sticking point."

Two of the biggest proponents of isometric strength training are Chris Thibaudeau and Bill Starr, strength coaches.

The Russians found isomteric strength training to be one of the best method for increasing strength. Secretes of Soviet Sports Fitness and Trainng/Yessis

Dr Mel Siff and Yuri Verkhoshansky go into how effective isometric are in the development of strength, Supertraining.

The problem is a lack of education in isometrics.

Kenny Croxdale

We were talking about it's application to powerlifting, not the presence of it in a strength and conditioning program.

To be honest, I've heard nothing out of Starr or Thibideau in recent years about the application of isometrics. They had some stuff out in the late 90's which is the reason we applied it, but we dropped it after having no success with it. Not to mention it's affects on the joints.

If we're not educated in the application of isometrics, fill us in.

Kenny Croxdale
05-08-2009, 09:28 AM
IMO. isometrics don't make any sence at all. let's say you are benchpressing against pins with 200lbs. and holding it against the pins for any amount of time, say 10 seconds or whatever. how many lbs. of pressure does it really take to hold it there? 201lbs of pressure? there is no way to tell, and even if there was, wouldn't you just rather bench 201lbs. full range for 10 seconds? isometrics? why? ........

barbell,

Isometric make a lot of sense. They allow you to "overload" the muscles invovled in let's say a bench press at your sticking point.

In building strength, one of the components is "Time Under Tension". Isometric allow you to "overload" your "sticking point" for a greater period of time. The amount of time for a isometric being about 2-6 seconds for 3-6 sets of 1-3 repetitions.

In a traditional bench press, much less time is devoted to your "sticking point". The "Time Under Tension is more than likely less than a second.
And the "overload" is not worked to the extent it is with isometric sets.

Also, each of an isometric can be performed with a maximum effort. By doing so, more motor units are called into play...meaning you increase your strenght.

The downside of traditional isometrics is it hard to see progress. You have not way of measuring how much force you are producing. However, another method of isometrics allows you to measure your progress.

Functional isometric combines weights and isometrics. This allows you to measure your progress.

Kenny Croxdale

bencher8
05-08-2009, 09:32 AM
I read a bit about this in Lous book, just last night. In it he didnt talk a lot obout Isometrics as much as quasi-isometrics. He felt(at the time of writing the article, not the book, so I dont know his current take on it) that loading the bar with a lot of bands, so much that lockout would be impossible, the bar would be moving so slowly, as to approach isometric applications....not exactly the same as isometrics, but I think that form of isometrics(quasi-iso) might be somewhat usefull in powerlifting....with that said I have never applied it in my training..

Would still be very taxing on the CNS and very hard on the joints..no way around that I guess. He also recommended only doing this form of isometrics sparingly...I believe he said very short training times and only occasionally.

Kenny Croxdale
05-08-2009, 09:32 AM
hahaha good one Vin

I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said by saying not everything on the interwebz is true. Isometrics are pretty worthless for powerlifting

Travis,

Isometrics are an effective method for powerlifters. One of the problem is that it hard to measure results with traditional isometrics. Another method is Functional Isomtrics, which does allow you to measure your progress.

Another problem is that most powerlifters don't really know much about isomtrics. So, they don't employ them.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
05-08-2009, 10:02 AM
We were talking about it's application to powerlifting, not the presence of it in a strength and conditioning program.

Ben,

The application of isometric as a means of strengthing a "sticking point" holds true for powerlifters just as much as for any other athlete in another sport.

As stated, isometrics "overload' a movement between 15-20 degrees of the angle. This means performing an isomteric bench press in your "sticking point" area, allows you to specifically "overload" it more effectively.


To be honest, I've heard nothing out of Starr or Thibideau in recent years about the application of isometrics. They had some stuff out in the late 90's which is the reason we applied it, but we dropped it after having no success with it. Not to mention it's affects on the joints.

Starr has touted isometrics, specifically Functional Isometrics, since the late 1960. You see it form time to time in various bodybuilding magazine.

Thibaudea provides some good research information in his articles and his book on it.

It'S hard to say why you had no success with it without knowing more. But it is an effective training tool.


If we're not educated in the application of isometrics, fill us in.

Ben, there are some good aritlce on this. This article will provide you with some more information. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/continuum_training

Kenny Croxdale

BigTallOx
05-08-2009, 10:31 AM
and BTO, I'd be interested to see that article that you are referring to where Lou recommends isometrics :)

Sure. I just found them through a google search. Below are the two that I quoted in my post.

Here's the article where he just discribes pros/cons and how to perform some isometrics...

http://westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/06PDF/isometrics.pdf

The above is where he says "I hope just some small part of this article will awaken your mind to try a new method of training".

Another one that I was reading is here...

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls6.htm

That article is where he says "Conventional isometrics - that joint-jarring pressing against immovable pins - is unnecessary. "

I understand the point that people make when they say I'm thinking too much, but I find reading these ( and other ) articles pretty facinating.

WillNoble
05-08-2009, 11:18 AM
Travis,

Isometrics are an effective method for powerlifters. One of the problem is that it hard to measure results with traditional isometrics. Another method is Functional Isomtrics, which does allow you to measure your progress.

Another problem is that most powerlifters don't really know much about isomtrics. So, they don't employ them.

Kenny Croxdale

Let me preface this, as this isnt a slam, more a topic of disagreement...


Just a note on this point, It would seem to me that Louie, being without a doubt one of the smartest men, if not THE smartest man in powerlifting would understand the applicability of Isometrics on the training of powerlifters. If it was truly effective his current lifters would be employing that methodology, but from Travis, we hear that it isnt true.

At what point does practicality and the real world enter in Kenny, don't get me wrong, theory is a beautiful thing, but the practical application of theory is necessary to acheive results, and if that theory doesnt pan out, you are simply left with a theory...

vdizenzo
05-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Three simple letters--SFW

barbell01
05-08-2009, 12:59 PM
isometrics shmisometrics

Travis Bell
05-08-2009, 01:07 PM
Let me preface this, as this isnt a slam, more a topic of disagreement...


Just a note on this point, It would seem to me that Louie, being without a doubt one of the smartest men, if not THE smartest man in powerlifting would understand the applicability of Isometrics on the training of powerlifters. If it was truly effective his current lifters would be employing that methodology, but from Travis, we hear that it isnt true.

At what point does practicality and the real world enter in Kenny, don't get me wrong, theory is a beautiful thing, but the practical application of theory is necessary to acheive results, and if that theory doesnt pan out, you are simply left with a theory...

Exactly!

I didn't say that we don't do them any longer because they don't work, but the problem arises when you're sitting there trying to figure out the 15 or 20 degrees from the sticking point, blah blah, it just gets old, takes too much time and is quite difficult to pinpoint. You could easily spend an entire workout just setting up for iso's.

If someone else is able to make them work, Lord bless em' but it's not for me.

We found that we can easily reach the same or better results exercising the given range of motion.

Also as someone stated, we do use it a little, more the quasi iso's with the heavy band tension that is used for pulling

Kenny Croxdale
05-08-2009, 05:06 PM
Let me preface this, as this isnt a slam, more a topic of disagreement...

Just a note on this point, It would seem to me that Louie, being without a doubt one of the smartest men, if not THE smartest man in powerlifting would understand the applicability of Isometrics on the training of powerlifters. If it was truly effective his current lifters would be employing that methodology, but from Travis, we hear that it isnt true.

Will,

Evidenty, Louie finds a value in the use of isometrics. This article from Loue expound more on them. Louie stating, "Here is how Westside does them."
http://westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/06PDF/isometrics.pdf

Louie's "I have always prefered the Hoffman method" is a reference to Functional Isomtrics, combining weights and isomtrics that I addressed.


At what point does practicality and the real world enter in Kenny, don't get me wrong, theory is a beautiful thing, but the practical application of theory is necessary to acheive results, and if that theory doesnt pan out, you are simply left with a theory...

Louie's article stated that the Westside has applied isometrics in a pratical manner in their training, thus is more than a theory.

Louie quotes from Verkhoshansky's Fundamentals of Special Strength Training". Louie has also endorsed the infrmation in Supertraining by Dr Mel Siff and Yuri Verkhoshansky, often quoting from it.

Both of these books promote the use of isometrics as a means of inceasing limit strength.

Kenny Croxdale

WillNoble
05-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Yet one of his best lifters is telling you they dont do them...

Again

Theoretical v. Practical





Edit: I also am a big fan of Siff, Verkoshanky, Zatsiorsky, Medveyev, Kurz, etc. Ive read and re-read them all...but again it gets down to the simple fact, that what may look great on paper doesnt always translate into the real world

MNRob
05-08-2009, 06:06 PM
Iso are just another tool in the toolbox, nothing more. If what goes on at Westside was the end all be all of all forms of weight lifting then WBB.com can lock all threads, shut down and nothing more ever needs to be spoken or debated about.

Just because Mr. Simmons et al don't do isometrics does not negate their effectiveness for everyone else. They didn't work for you Will, that doesn't negate their effectiveness.

The argument over theory vs practical is only valid when the theoretical is used properly in practical applications and if it is then shown to be invalid, the theory is wrong or the theoretical was implemented improperly.

Different strokes for different folks.

Travis Bell
05-08-2009, 06:14 PM
Iso are just another tool in the toolbox, nothing more. If what goes on at Westside was the end all be all of all forms of weight lifting then WBB.com can lock all threads, shut down and nothing more ever needs to be spoken or debated about.

Just because Mr. Simmons et al don't do isometrics does not negate their effectiveness for everyone else. They didn't work for you Will, that doesn't negate their effectiveness.

The argument over theory vs practical is only valid when the theoretical is used properly in practical applications and if it is then shown to be invalid, the theory is wrong or the theoretical was implemented improperly.

Different strokes for different folks.

Who said Westside is the be all and end all?

Kenny is saying that we do iso's, when we don't any longer. That's the response

MNRob
05-08-2009, 06:48 PM
Who said Westside is the be all and end all?

Kenny is saying that we do iso's, when we don't any longer. That's the response


I didn't say Westside was, I said IF. The argument against isometrics has only, as I read it, been;

A. It didn't work for Will
B. The best powerlifters in the world don't do them
C. Westside doesn't incorporate them into training cycles (even though Mr. Simmons wrote an article about using them)

All I am saying, is if that is the argument (the above bullet points) then there is no need for WBB and anymore discussion on strength topics as Westside has it all figured out for everyone's possible goals and limitations/weaknesses (an asinine argument).

Now, if someone has some data on using isometrics vs other methods and can show/say, "...hey, I did isometrics for 6 months and got X% increase, but then I did method B and X+10% increase..." then we have a conversation, but just pointing at you and Westside and saying they are worthless doesn't accomplish anything.

Don't read me wrong, I am in no way shape or form bashing Westside, Mr. Simmons, or you Travis, I am just trying to point out the "unfairness" of a debate technique.

vdizenzo
05-08-2009, 07:54 PM
Supertraining makes a great one board. Lift weights not books.

Travis Bell
05-08-2009, 09:32 PM
Rob, re-read the thread. BTO was actually using Lou's articles in support of iso's (which at the time Lou was trying to incorporate into the gym)

My responses and Wills were directed at Kenny trying to communicate that we (Westside) still use iso's, when we don't.

Also, Lou never said they don't work either. I've said it several times now, we didn't stop using them because they didn't work. It's just more of a pain in the neck than it's worth

WillNoble
05-08-2009, 11:30 PM
I didn't say Westside was, I said IF. The argument against isometrics has only, as I read it, been;

A. It didn't work for Will
B. The best powerlifters in the world don't do them
C. Westside doesn't incorporate them into training cycles (even though Mr. Simmons wrote an article about using them)

All I am saying, is if that is the argument (the above bullet points) then there is no need for WBB and anymore discussion on strength topics as Westside has it all figured out for everyone's possible goals and limitations/weaknesses (an asinine argument).

Now, if someone has some data on using isometrics vs other methods and can show/say, "...hey, I did isometrics for 6 months and got X% increase, but then I did method B and X+10% increase..." then we have a conversation, but just pointing at you and Westside and saying they are worthless doesn't accomplish anything.

Don't read me wrong, I am in no way shape or form bashing Westside, Mr. Simmons, or you Travis, I am just trying to point out the "unfairness" of a debate technique.

You missed the entire point of what both Travis and I were saying.

Were we bashing Isometrics, NO

Were we saying that they are not necessary when it comes to powerlifting at an elite level, yes

Did Louie write an article about them, certainly

Does Louie prescribe Isometrics to his lifters, NO

My point to Kenny was quite simply that I understand where he was coming from with Isometrics, but when you have the worlds best lifting coach and some of the worlds best lifters not using them by choice, not ignorance (and come to think of it I cant think of any Elite PL'ers who have Isometrics as a mainstay of their training periodization... Although to this point I may be incorrect) It comes down to a theoretical vs. practical debate in terms of the application of a unit of heavy study by some of the greatest minds in the game. However the practical application of these findings proved that they did not translate well to the real world.

Again, I think you missed the spirit of the post, as I was certainly not trashing Kenny (I made it a point to say that I wasn't prior to my earlier statements) I was more speaking to the current practical application, or lack thereof, by whom who is without a doubt the best PL coach on the planet, who DID also write on the subject in question...

Kenny Croxdale
05-09-2009, 09:00 AM
when you have the worlds best lifting coach and some of the worlds best lifters not using them by choice,

Will,

But some of the best lifting coaches are using them by choice. Simmons ever found some benefit in them, as he noted in his article.


not ignorance (and come to think of it I cant think of any Elite PL'ers who have Isometrics as a mainstay of their training periodization...

As MNRob stated, they are just another tool in you tool box of training exercises. You want to use the right tool for the right job.


Although to this point I may be incorrect) It comes down to a theoretical vs. practical debate in terms of the application of a unit of heavy study by some of the greatest minds in the game. However the practical application of these findings proved that they did not translate well to the real world.

Will, they work in the real world. Bill Starr wrote about the success of Bill March. I was introduced to Functional Isometrics by Hollie Evette back in the early 1980s.

Evette used them. Evette was an elite 242 lifter.

Functional Isometrics increased my personal records.

If isometrics and functional isometrics worked before for other (such as Simmons, Starr, Verkhoshansky, Thibaudeau, Evette, etc), why won't they work now?

As Travis stated in his post, "Also, Lou never said they don't work..." The inference is that they do work.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
05-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Supertraining makes a great one board. Lift weights not books.

vd,

You will get more out of the book by reading it.

Kenny Croxdale

MNRob
05-09-2009, 09:48 AM
I think we have been talking around each other, such is the wonderful world of communication via text.

My apologies to my misreading everyone's intent and message.

BigTallOx
05-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Rob, re-read the thread. BTO was actually using Lou's articles in support of iso's (which at the time Lou was trying to incorporate into the gym)

My responses and Wills were directed at Kenny trying to communicate that we (Westside) still use iso's, when we don't.

Also, Lou never said they don't work either. I've said it several times now, we didn't stop using them because they didn't work. It's just more of a pain in the neck than it's worth

Thanks Travis and others. You've answered my question.

Brad08
05-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Five years passed before the well-kept secret slipped out that Bill March, Louis Riecke and others connected with the York Barbell Club were using anabolic steroids and that the drug, not isometric contraction, was the real reason they were all making such spectacular progress. Once on the iron grapevine, however, word spread rapidly. Soon Olympic weightlifters in Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Jacksonville and Winston-Salem found local sources for the Dianabol that would dramatically improve their totals.


They also discovered that any routine, done consistently and diligently, produced startling results, as long as they took the little pink pills regularly. That's when the systems of rack training that Dr. John Ziegler had developed and Bob Hoffman had so successfully marketed became passť. The weightlifting community figured that Hoffman had deliberately concealed the drug use of athletes who'd trained with isometrics and isotonic-isometrics just so he could sell courses and racks. Which was true.



Link (http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/03/back-to-rack-part-four-bill-starr.html)

barbell01
05-10-2009, 05:12 PM
the poeple making gains in that link are from the 70's and 80's, if you want to make 30yr old gains then this might help.

vdizenzo
05-10-2009, 05:25 PM
vd,

You will get more out of the book by reading it.

Kenny Croxdale

I read it. It's a terribly hard read. I have 7 years of higher education so I consider myself a relatively bright guy. I am glad many great thinkers in strength have used his information and passed it on in more practical language.

I may not be one of the best informed on strength, but I am one of the strongest.

Kenny Croxdale
05-11-2009, 08:40 AM
the poeple making gains in that link are from the 70's and 80's, if you want to make 30yr old gains then this might help.

barbell,

Just because that information from Starr is from 30 years ago, doesn't mean it is not still valid today.

Knowledgeable strength coaches like Thibaudeau, Poliquin, Hollie Evette (1980s national powerlifting champion/strength coach), Starr (still writes about how to use today in Milo and some of Weider's manganzies), etc. advocated it.

What often old is new. Kettlebells are one example. They were employed over 100 years ago. So, does the fact that Kettlebells is over 100 years old make them obsolete?

Kenny Croxdale

Travis Bell
05-11-2009, 08:54 AM
Alright Kenny, LOL enough is enough.

You are right, just because something is old doesn't necessairly mean it doesn't work, but I think this topic has been pretty well solved

it is beginning to appear as if you are arguing just to argue, lets let it go

Fighter_15
05-11-2009, 08:37 PM
Kind of late to tune in but a guy I talk to preaches positives about isometrics. He tells me during any sporting season I should stop lifting and do isometrics twice a week and my strength will stay about where it's at. I've never actually done these for more than a week or 2 so I can't say they work or don't work. He claims he's done them for long term though and lost little strength.

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 08:29 AM
Alright Kenny, LOL enough is enough.

You are right, just because something is old doesn't necessairly mean it doesn't work, but I think this topic has been pretty well solved

it is beginning to appear as if you are arguing just to argue, lets let it go

Hey Travis,

I have a problem with mininformation. Some of the information presented by those on the board is incorrect. It like someone telling other the world is flat, when you know it round.

With that said, I am done...:)

Kenny Croxdale