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vdizenzo
05-08-2009, 08:10 PM
Yes, this is meant for the pl section! I want like minded people to chime in.

Ok, I currently take in 320 grams of protein a day on average. I weigh about 305. I could not tell you my bf%. I really have no idea, nor do I care as long as I am healthy and continue with my conditioning. Anyway, I was thinking about making a push to get an extra 100 grams of protein a day. If all else stays the same with my training, conditioning, and diet what will the effect be?

joey54
05-08-2009, 08:19 PM
You would be adding 400 calories to your diet, so probably a little weight gain. What makes you want to do it Vin? What are you looking for out of it? And most importantly, what does Rhodes say?

bill
05-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Vin you must throw down some food. I bet I get under 200 most days and everyone comments on how much I eat. Do you use many shakes?

KarstenDD
05-08-2009, 08:45 PM
...what does Rhodes say?

"My hip hurts. I'm gonna run hills. I'm going to stop squatting and deadlifting. I can see you just fine. Look, my abs are coming in."

Brian Hopper
05-08-2009, 08:53 PM
You might put on some weight. I'm sure it would benefit you, instead of hurting you.

bencher8
05-08-2009, 10:08 PM
You will fart more...your wife will love you...lol

evilxxx
05-08-2009, 10:49 PM
You will fart more...your wife will love you...lol

yup im sure this will happen...at least til your body realize its gonna have to process the extra 100g of protein a day.

MarcusWild
05-09-2009, 01:14 AM
I thought the body can only really process 20-40g in one sitting??? At 320g/day, that means you'd have to have 40g 8 times a day. I think with another 100g/day you'd basically have really expensive poop, since your body won't be able to digest it all.

thegreatone
05-09-2009, 03:21 AM
I thought the body can only really process 20-40g in one sitting??? At 320g/day, that means you'd have to have 40g 8 times a day. I think with another 100g/day you'd basically have really expensive poop, since your body won't be able to digest it all.

I don't think that has actually be proven. I think it's more one those "general guidelines" some "nutritional expert" came up with.

I agree I think adding 100g probably wouldn't do all that much other than add additional calories. 400+g is quite a bit even for a big fella like you. If you are eating a normal amount of CHO (they have a protein sparing effect) and you caloric intake isn't at a deficit there shouldn't be a need for you to add more PRO since you are already hitting 1g+ per lb BW.

J.C.
05-09-2009, 04:42 AM
I once head Bill Kaz Kazmaier say he was getting around 500g of protein a day and it seemed to work for him!

Lones Green
05-09-2009, 07:02 AM
That "your body can only digest 40g of protein per serving" stuff is B.S. in my opinion.

Vin, you should try it and report back. I don't think it would be that hard, adding a few scoops of protein to your shakes, and what not. You could have 3 scoops of Nitrean before bed and knock out 72 grams.

I have around 300-350 and I could easily be eating 500 grams a day if I had the money, LOL

evilxxx
05-09-2009, 10:25 AM
That "your body can only digest 40g of protein per serving" stuff is B.S. in my opinion.

Vin, you should try it and report back. I don't think it would be that hard, adding a few scoops of protein to your shakes, and what not. You could have 3 scoops of Nitrean before bed and knock out 72 grams.

I have around 300-350 and I could easily be eating 500 grams a day if I had the money, LOL

You are 100% correct. The World Health Org. has done research on this and the body will process as much protein as you feed it. but if you are used to eat 30g a meal and next meal got 60g is not gonna process all of it becausae it is not used to the new increase(wish they say it takes around 7 days for the body to adjust)

slashkills
05-09-2009, 11:13 AM
sort of off topic...
If you where to drastically up your protein/calorie intake and then cut back would your body continue to try and process it all. Like... tricking your body into burning more calories?
sorry dont mean to hijack this thread.

SELK
05-09-2009, 12:01 PM
I thought the body can only really process 20-40g in one sitting??? At 320g/day, that means you'd have to have 40g 8 times a day. I think with another 100g/day you'd basically have really expensive poop, since your body won't be able to digest it all.

There once was a study done on exactly this (I think there is only 1-2 studies ever to look at this).


Tarnopolsky and S. M Phillips D. R Moore, M. J Robinson, J. L Fry, J. E Tang, E. I Glover, S. B Wilkinson, T. Prior, M. A. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am. J. Clinical Nutrition, January 1, 2009; 89 (1): 161-168.

They came to the 20g/meal conclusion. There are several problems with this study though.
- They only measured the acute effects
- They used a 12-set training protocall (ie very weak training)
- You cant really measure protein synthesis so you are left with 2 options - amino acid differences or mRNA synthesis. Both of these are just going to be estimates.

So pretty much the study sucked and didn't really tell us anything. Research wise there is evidence supporting protein intake up to about 1g/pound of body weight, but nothing further then that. That is not to say that 2g/lb of protein is bad, it could be very beneficial, it just hasn't been scientifically proven yet. From my experience it sure does seem the body does fine on over 1g/lb.

chris mason
05-09-2009, 12:02 PM
Vincent, you are already consuming plenty of protein. I don't think the additional protein will be of any benefit. Are you trying to gain body weight?

SELK
05-09-2009, 12:05 PM
sort of off topic...
If you where to drastically up your protein/calorie intake and then cut back would your body continue to try and process it all. Like... tricking your body into burning more calories?
sorry dont mean to hijack this thread.

Probably not. Calorie wise the body is just basic thermodynamics (in vs out). There are small differences which can come about when increasing protein intake like TEF (thermal effect of food) where protein has the highest TEF, next to alcohol:D

The only time where this does seem to work is if you are looking at a chronic undereater (ie a women who has eaten 800 cals a day for the last 5 years). Their metabolism is pretty much shut down and increasing intake may be beneficial (weight gain will occur, still) to ramp up the metabolic rate then later, cut it back down again, but higher then the initial intake.

Jonah
05-09-2009, 01:37 PM
"My hip hurts. I'm gonna run hills. I'm going to stop squatting and deadlifting. I can see you just fine. Look, my abs are coming in."

"you don't listen, you know what your problem is, Get your knees out, this sport's stupid, Alright ****ers"

Kenny Croxdale
05-10-2009, 09:57 AM
Yes, this is meant for the pl section! I want like minded people to chime in.

Ok, I currently take in 320 grams of protein a day on average. I weigh about 305. I could not tell you my bf%. I really have no idea, nor do I care as long as I am healthy and continue with my conditioning. Anyway, I was thinking about making a push to get an extra 100 grams of protein a day. If all else stays the same with my training, conditioning, and diet what will the effect be?

vd,

What is the reason to increase you protein intake?

Kenny Croxdale

vdizenzo
05-10-2009, 08:06 PM
I want to add protein to pack on a little more size. I know there can be diminishing returns with protein. I also know carbs are protein sparing. I just wanted to throw this out and see what you all had to say.

I eat around 5-5500 calories on an average day. It's about 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat. I'm going to add another 50 grams of protein tomorrow. I am going to see how that goes for a few weeks and decide whether I will drop the 50 grams, stay with it, or add another 50.

Rob Luyando
05-11-2009, 09:29 AM
I was told by McVicar that rule of thumb is 1 1/2 grms to 2 grams of protein pr lbs of body weight. But then again what does he know he is built like a bodybuilder.

Clifford Gillmore
05-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Anything over 300 is heaps Vin. A few more carbs if you wan't a bit more weight on bra!

chris mason
05-11-2009, 10:51 AM
I want to add protein to pack on a little more size. I know there can be diminishing returns with protein. I also know carbs are protein sparing. I just wanted to throw this out and see what you all had to say.

I eat around 5-5500 calories on an average day. It's about 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat. I'm going to add another 50 grams of protein tomorrow. I am going to see how that goes for a few weeks and decide whether I will drop the 50 grams, stay with it, or add another 50.

Vincent, timing of your protein intake would probably be a more important factor than increasing your protein intake.

vdizenzo
05-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Vincent, timing of your protein intake would probably be a more important factor than increasing your protein intake.

Tell me more!

MarcusWild
05-11-2009, 12:36 PM
Chris is right. I bought the book "Power Eating" from Elitefts. It's not a very large book and reads pretty fast. The author is very adamant that timing is as important as what you eat. The biggest thing I learned is to maximize my calorie intake pre and post workout.

Also, I learned to have any sugary foods right before or after my workout. If I have them pre-workout, then I also have some more complex carbs too. Pure simple carbs will make you crash during your workout.

Simple carbs post workout help your body replenish the glycogen used during your workout faster. Post workout is really the best opportunity you have for your body to uptake nutrients because it's in a depleted state. It's probably the best time to take any supplements including creatine. Mixing creatine with a simple carb post workout increases your creatine uptake to your muscles.

vdizenzo
05-11-2009, 12:44 PM
I follow the principles of nutrient timing already.

Keith
05-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Vincent, timing of your protein intake would probably be a more important factor than increasing your protein intake.

:withstupi:

No need to increase your protein intake, IMO. Pick up a copy of Nutrient Timing by John Ivy and Robert Portman. There's some on Amazon.com that start at $6.95. Sam Byrd recommended it and it's a great read.

Lones Green
05-11-2009, 01:29 PM
:withstupi:

No need to increase your protein intake, IMO. Pick up a copy of Nutrient Timing by John Ivy and Robert Portman. There's some on Amazon.com that start at $6.95. Sam Byrd recommended it and it's a great read.

Vin is actually the one who turned me onto buying that book

Travis Bell
05-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Vin, I believe Chris would be referring to consuming protein within 30min post workout (as soon as possible)

Have you tried Opticen?

vdizenzo
05-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Vin, I believe Chris would be referring to consuming protein within 30min post workout (as soon as possible)

Have you tried Opticen?

I take my carbs immediately after my workout and then 2 scoops of Nitrean within 15 minutes after that.

chris mason
05-11-2009, 03:23 PM
No, I mean more along the lines of consuming protein every 4-6 hours. There is not much point in consuming more than that. Reseach has proven that protein synthesis is spiked by protein consumption, but that this increase in synthesis has a timeline and further consumption of protein does not prolong or increase it further. The only real exception to that is PWO nutrition.

Chris

vdizenzo
05-11-2009, 05:14 PM
No, I mean more along the lines of consuming protein every 4-6 hours. There is not much point in consuming more than that. Reseach has proven that protein synthesis is spiked by protein consumption, but that this increase in synthesis has a timeline and further consumption of protein does not prolong or increase it further. The only real exception to that is PWO nutrition.

Chris

So to hit 400 grams I eat 50 grams every two hours. Are you saying it would be more beneficial to eat 100 grams every four hours? You have piqued my curiousity.

chris mason
05-11-2009, 09:09 PM
So to hit 400 grams I eat 50 grams every two hours. Are you saying it would be more beneficial to eat 100 grams every four hours? You have piqued my curiousity.


Yes, correct. The other side of the equation is insulin and insulin resistance. If you eat too often and your insulin is more or less constantly elevated then you are promoting insensitivity. Insulin is HIGHLY anabolic and insensitivity is a bad thing for anyone trying to gain muscle. The insulin spike from the ingestion of starchy carbs or sugars combined with protein allows for optimally enhanced protein synthesis in the insulin sensitive individual. If you don't want to peak insulin too often during the day, and you know that enhanced protein synthesis is a function of meal size and can really only be peaked every 4-6 hours then consuming 3-4 meals per day is the way to go (not counting pre or PWO nutrition).

Among my 6 billion other things, I am working on a paper which addresses this in more detail.

vdizenzo
05-12-2009, 05:50 AM
Alright Chris I am trying to come up with a plan here. Tell me what you think:

Meal 1 6:15: 50 grams of protein (all food), 60 grams of carbs

? 7:15 can I eat oatmeal alone here, I cannot force it down with breakfast--trying to be heart healthy and make sure to get it in

Meal 2 10:30: 100 grams of protein (50 food, 50 shake), 100 grams of carbs

Meal 3 2:15: 100 grams of protein (50 food, 50 shake), 60 grams of carbs

Meal 4 6:00: 100 grams of protein (50 food, 50 shake), 100 grams of carbs

Meal 5 10:00 30 grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs

*Edit* just rereading your post, you said 3-4 meals and I have 5. I can collapse meal 5 into meal 4 if I must. This sounds pretty rough. I don't think I can get my usual carb count in with so few meals. I am used to eating 8 times a day.


I usually eat more carbs because of the many spread out meals. I will try to get a few more in either meal 1 or 2. Meals 2 and 3 are tough because I only get about 20 minutes to heat them up and eat them. If this plan is ok, is it better to drink my shakes directly before my meal or after? Also, is that 7:15 of just oatmeal ok? I could try and sneak it in at meal 3 if I must. I would really like to get this right. I would give it a 3 month run to see how it goes.

Clifford Gillmore
05-12-2009, 06:49 AM
Where are your pre and post workout meals Vin?

vdizenzo
05-12-2009, 07:08 AM
Where are your pre and post workout meals Vin?

Chris said not counting pre and post workout meals.

My pre would just be a meal before. My during is my gatorade, My after will be 100 grams of carbs followed 15 minutes by 50 grams of protein. I do this on the three days I weight train.

Clifford Gillmore
05-12-2009, 07:16 AM
Cool cool, I completely follow the meal plan then :)

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 07:37 AM
I take my carbs immediately after my workout and then 2 scoops of Nitrean within 15 minutes after that.

vd,

What the point of taking the protein 15 minutes after you take the carbs.

The combination of carbs (a high glycemic index food such as maltodextrin or dextrose) along with protein have been shown to elicit a much better effect.
Glycogen (carbs) is restored to the depleted to the deplete muscle much faster. Thus, faster recovery.

Carbs also (along with some minterals) act as a transport system, shuttling nutrients to the muscle cell.

With that said, it would be better to consume you protein with your carbs, unless there is another viable reason.

Kenny Croxdale

vdizenzo
05-12-2009, 07:43 AM
vd,

What the point of taking the protein 15 minutes after you take the carbs.

The combination of carbs (a high glycemic index food such as maltodextrin or dextrose) along with protein have been shown to elicit a much better effect.
Glycogen (carbs) is restored to the depleted to the deplete muscle much faster. Thus, faster recovery.

Carbs also (along with some minterals) act as a transport system, shuttling nutrients to the muscle cell.

With that said, it would be better to consume you protein with your carbs, unless there is another viable reason.

Kenny Croxdale


It's because various people like John Ivy, Justin Harris, and I few others I have read recommended it. I don't have Nutrient Timing with me here at work, nor do I remember the exact reasoning. I think it has something to do with slowing down the absorption of the carbs.

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=chris mason;2138765]No, I mean more along the lines of consuming protein every 4-6 hours.There is not much point in consuming more than that.

Chris,

My recommendation is a consumption of a protein meal or beverage more like every 3-4 hours. That allows a much more constant supply.

Different proteins have different assimilation times. Whey proteins are digested in approximately 100 mintues, roughly 1. 5 hourrs. Caseianate protein is digested in about 300 minutes, around 5 hours

Thus, if you are taking a whey protein, the frequency of you intake need to be more often. Perhaps in the 2-3 hour range.

Also, as someone said, "It not how much protein you eat, it how much you digest." Some reseach indicates that "Aminogen" allows one to digest more protein. Also, addtional "Leucine" added to a meal or beverage appears to enhance protein synthesis.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 08:09 AM
Chris said not counting pre and post workout meals.

My pre would just be a meal before. My during is my gatorade, My after will be 100 grams of carbs followed 15 minutes by 50 grams of protein. I do this on the three days I weight train.

vd,

A better "during" beverage would be a protein/carbohydrate beverage. Even Gatorade has recognized that protein need to be added to the mix, Gatorade Performance Series Protein Recovery Shake.

Also, Gatorade uses high fructose corn syrup, a bad thing.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 08:14 AM
It's because various people like John Ivy, Justin Harris, and I few others I have read recommended it. I don't have Nutrient Timing with me here at work, nor do I remember the exact reasoning. I think it has something to do with slowing down the absorption of the carbs.

vd,

I have Nutrient Timing. The books does not state you should wait 15 minutes to after taking in carbohydrates and then take in protein.

Also, another way of adding another beverage to you daily intake is this. Mix a beverage and put it in the referigerator. Then in the middle of the night drink it.

The easiest way of doing that is to drink some water before you go to bed. At some point, you have to get up and go to the bathroom. When you do, drink your protein drink, the go back to bed.

Caseinate protein is a great post bedtime drink and middle of the night drink. That because caseinate is a "time released" protein. It trickles into your system slowly...taking up to 300 minutes, about 5 hours.

Kenny Croxdale

vdizenzo
05-12-2009, 08:26 AM
vd,

A better "during" beverage would be a protein/carbohydrate beverage. Even Gatorade has recognized that protein need to be added to the mix, Gatorade Performance Series Protein Recovery Shake.

Also, Gatorade uses high fructose corn syrup, a bad thing.

Kenny Croxdale

I use the powder which has no high fructose corn syrup. I do add protein to that during shake as according to Nutrient timing. I just forgot to write that down.

As for the 15 minute lag time. I need to look at my notes at home.

Kenny, I am not completely sure whether you want to be helpful or be right.

Travis Bell
05-12-2009, 08:37 AM
Kenny, I am not completely sure whether you want to be helpful or be right.

It would appear the latter, or at least thats the way he comes across

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 08:49 AM
I use the powder which has no high fructose corn syrup. I do add protein to that during shake as according to Nutrient timing. I just forgot to write that down.

As for the 15 minute lag time. I need to look at my notes at home.

Kenny, I am not completely sure whether you want to be helpful or be right.

vd,

I would like to be both, right and helpful. lol.

However, I stand corrected. You are right about the powder. I just checked and the powder contains the following: Sucrose, Dextrose, Citric Acid, Salt, Sodium Citrate, Natural Orange Flavor with Other Natural Flavors, Monopotassium Phosphate, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Yellow 6 http://www.toolbarn.com/product/gatorade/33303/

I learned something, which is a good thing.

Kenny Croxdale

Cards
05-12-2009, 09:28 AM
I’m curious about the carbs and the timing of the protein. Do they need to be simple carbs to spike the insulin or in products such as muscle milk that use dietary fiber and insoluble fiber, do these types of carbs work as well..even if they aren't completely absorbed by the body?

chris mason
05-12-2009, 09:34 AM
Kenny, opinions are great, but you might also want to make sure you have things pretty close to right prior to stating them as though they are fact. For instance:

"Carbs also (along with some minterals) act as a transport system, shuttling nutrients to the muscle cell. "

Carbs don't shuttle nutrients in the fashion you are implying, insulin does, and its release is stimulated with the consumption of virtually any foods and especially starcy carbs or sugars.


Ok, back to you Vincent. Don't get mad at me, but I have to tell you to suck it up. If you truly want to give this a run then get your caloric intake into 4 meals. If need be, have an additional "meal" which consists of protein (a shake in water) and possibly some fats (say some nuts or the like).

Mix carbs and protein into each of the main meals (as you have).

The only other thing I would recommend is that you first go on a hypocaloric diet for 4 weeks or so and lose about 10 lbs of body fat in order to jump start your insulin sensitivity.

chris mason
05-12-2009, 09:35 AM
Im curious about the carbs and the timing of the protein. Do they need to be simple carbs to spike the insulin or in products such as muscle milk that use dietary fiber and insoluble fiber, do these types of carbs work as well..even if they aren't completely absorbed by the body?

Fiber won't do the trick nearly as well as starchy carbs and or sugars.

Cards
05-12-2009, 10:07 AM
thanks chris!

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 11:12 AM
Kenny, opinions are great, but you might also want to make sure you have things pretty close to right prior to stating them as though they are fact. For instance:

"Carbs also (along with some minterals) act as a transport system, shuttling nutrients to the muscle cell. "

Carbs don't shuttle nutrients in the fashion you are implying, insulin does, and its release is stimulated with the consumption of virtually any foods and especially starcy carbs or sugars.

Chris,

I phrased it incorrectly. High glycemic index carbodhyrates trigger the release of insulin. Thus, as you noted, insulin acts as the transport system.

Kenny Croxdale

chris mason
05-12-2009, 02:43 PM
Chris,

I phrased it incorrectly. High glycemic index carbodhyrates trigger the release of insulin. Thus, as you noted, insulin acts as the transport system.

Kenny Croxdale


Kenny, nearly all foods stimulate insulin production. I think you have some good information, but I also think you should tread a little more lightly in your advice in this arena as you are perhaps not as informed as you could be.

KarstenDD
05-12-2009, 02:51 PM
Vincent, I suggest a coke immediately post training followed by McDonalds shortly afterward.

Oh, and just throw in a couple chicken cutlets during the day.

Kenny Croxdale
05-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Kenny, nearly all foods stimulate insulin production. I think you have some good information, but I also think you should tread a little more lightly in your advice in this arena as you are perhaps not as informed as you could be.

Hey Chris,

I am aware that carbohydrates stiumlate insulin production, some to a great extent (high glycemic index) and some don't not as much (low glycemic index).

I just didn't present it as well as I should have.

Kenny Croxdale

chris mason
05-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Kenny, carbs aren't the only thing that stimulate insulin. THAT was part of the point. I hope that you understood the balance of the point as well?

Kenny Croxdale
05-13-2009, 07:26 AM
Kenny, carbs aren't the only thing that stimulate insulin. THAT was part of the point. I hope that you understood the balance of the point as well?

Chris,

You've got my interest...:) I'd like to hear more.

Kenny Croxdale

Brad08
05-13-2009, 07:55 AM
Chris,

You've got my interest...:) I'd like to hear more.

Kenny Croxdale

An example:

A. Parcell, M. Drummond, D. Christopherson, et al. Glycemic and insulinemic responses to protein supplements. J Am Diet Assoc; 104:1800-1804 (December, 2004).

Protein supplements caused a rise in insulin levels similar to a glucose drink:


Insulin concentrations peaked at 40 min in the glucose drink group (285.5 [+ or -] 18.3 pmol) and was similar in all but the peanuts group (130.5 [+ or -] 14.3 pmol) (P < .05).

Kenny Croxdale
05-13-2009, 09:13 AM
An example:

A. Parcell, M. Drummond, D. Christopherson, et al. Glycemic and insulinemic responses to protein supplements. J Am Diet Assoc; 104:1800-1804 (December, 2004).

Protein supplements caused a rise in insulin levels similar to a glucose drink:

Brad,

I understand that some amino acids cause a rise in insulin.

However, my understanding is that caseinate (protein supplement) would probably not cause an increase in insulin levels.

I'd like to read more on the article you posted. Do you have a site for it or could you eamil me a copy.

Thanks,

Kenny Croxdale

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
05-13-2009, 09:42 AM
Brad,

I understand that some amino acids cause a rise in insulin.

However, my understanding is that caseinate (protein supplement) would probably not cause an increase in insulin levels.

I'd like to read more on the article you posted. Do you have a site for it or could you eamil me a copy.

Thanks,

Kenny Croxdale

Abstract
Objective

The effects of common servings of commercially marketed nutritional protein supplements on blood glucose and insulin responses were studied in 12 healthy men after ingestion of feedings that had varying carbohydrate and protein compositions.
Design

Fasting subjects consumed a 50-gram glucose drink, a white bagel, peanuts, a protein bar, or a protein drink in a counterbalanced fashion.
Setting

Subjects rested in a supine position and were not disturbed while blood samples were drawn at rest and at 10-minute intervals during the ensuing 2 hours.
Results

The area under the curve for glucose was greater in the glucose drink group vs all treatment groups except the white bagel group (P<.05). At 20 to 40 minutes, plasma glucose was elevated in the glucose drink group vs the peanuts group, the protein bar group, and the protein drink group (P<.05). The glycemic response was greater in the glucose drink group vs the white bagel group at 30 minutes (8.10.5 vs 6.50.3 mmol/L, respectively) (P<.05). The area under the curve for insulin was lower in the peanuts group vs all treatment groups (P<.05). Insulin concentrations peaked at 40 minutes in the glucose drink group (285.518.3 pmol) and was similar in all but the peanuts group (130.514.3 pmol) (P<.05).
Conclusions

A common serving of a commercially available protein supplement resulted in a marked insulin response with no glycemic response because of the lack of carbohydrate content. Inasmuch as many such supplements similar in composition are marketed on the bases of their nutritional energy benefits, these data underscore the need to educate consumers regarding appropriate fuel for exercise and nutritional supplement composition.

joey54
05-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Vin, did you ask Justin Harris' opinion on this? Interested to see what he might have to say. If I were you and had his ear, I would definitely get his opinion.

Hazerboy
05-13-2009, 08:38 PM
This thread has been a really interesting read. Its times like this that I'm glad I freqeunt this place.

Vincent -

where do you buy your gatorade powder? Is it cheaper than buying it at the grocery store? I've been looking for this stuff for awhile but have never seen it in stores.

Chris-

You really seem to know your stuff! Are you going to be publishing this paper in someplace peer reviewed, is it something for WBB, or just for fun?

Also, at what point in one's training career would you consider it worthwhile to start monitoring your diet to this extent? Vincent is an elite level PL who obviously needs to start paying more attention to his diet then some of us smaller guys. Would you say something this technical is worth it for someone with my stats, or is there something similar that you would recommend for someone of my level? I feel like this sort of intense monitoring of carbs, protein timing, amount of protein, type of protein, etc. is a lot of effort (and money for the supplements!) and it might only be really worthwhile for someone like Vin whose been training for 20 years and is an upper echelon bencher, though I could certainly be wrong.

As of now, the only real supplementing/diet monitoring I do is the occasional 4 or 5 weeks of creating or RESULTS and several month spurts of whey protein mixed with milk or water. That and LOTS AND LOTS OF FOOD. XD

Kenny Croxdale
05-14-2009, 07:51 AM
Abstract
Objective

The effects of common servings of commercially marketed nutritional protein supplements on blood glucose and insulin responses were studied in 12 healthy men after ingestion of feedings that had varying carbohydrate and protein compositions.
Design

Fasting subjects consumed a 50-gram glucose drink, a white bagel, peanuts, a protein bar, or a protein drink in a counterbalanced fashion.
Setting

Subjects rested in a supine position and were not disturbed while blood samples were drawn at rest and at 10-minute intervals during the ensuing 2 hours.
Results

The area under the curve for glucose was greater in the glucose drink group vs all treatment groups except the white bagel group (P<.05). At 20 to 40 minutes, plasma glucose was elevated in the glucose drink group vs the peanuts group, the protein bar group, and the protein drink group (P<.05). The glycemic response was greater in the glucose drink group vs the white bagel group at 30 minutes (8.10.5 vs 6.50.3 mmol/L, respectively) (P<.05). The area under the curve for insulin was lower in the peanuts group vs all treatment groups (P<.05). Insulin concentrations peaked at 40 minutes in the glucose drink group (285.518.3 pmol) and was similar in all but the peanuts group (130.514.3 pmol) (P<.05).
Conclusions

A common serving of a commercially available protein supplement resulted in a marked insulin response with no glycemic response because of the lack of carbohydrate content. Inasmuch as many such supplements similar in composition are marketed on the bases of their nutritional energy benefits, these data underscore the need to educate consumers regarding appropriate fuel for exercise and nutritional supplement composition.

JT,

I found this, as well. One of the problem with this abstract is the it does not define exactly what type of "commercially available protein supplement resulted in a marked insulin reponse".

Kenny Croxdale