PDA

View Full Version : Summer College Football Workouts



schmitty199
05-11-2009, 07:23 PM
I recieved my summer college workout packet today in the mail, ill post a week of it and see what the general consensus on it it.

And im just posting the actual weightlifting, there's lots of warmup, plyo, and speed and conditioning work before this.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/schmitty199/05-11-32.jpg

Awesome? Terrible? Either way lets here some input.

slashkills
05-11-2009, 07:37 PM
The exercise selection looks ok. Does the rep scheme change as you get further into the routine?

Reko
05-11-2009, 09:28 PM
it looks like some of that periodization stuff (only based on the 3 day a week combining both upper and lower in the same day, but cycling the lifts as to give plenty of rest).
if done right it could be very good. weather it is appropriate for football, i am not so sure.

KingJustin
05-11-2009, 09:38 PM
Yeah, it would be help to see how your coach periodizes the stuff (i.e. whether he rotates exercises, changes reps/weight, etc). If he just wants you to do this 16 weeks straight, then that's not going to work really.

You're benching, squatting, rowing, and doing romanian deadlifts. So that's not too bad. There's a lot of proven programs that will probably be better, but whatever.

(Should someone call this dude a troll?) (Joke)

Travis Bell
05-11-2009, 09:44 PM
Honestly, Id drop that entire program all together.

Read through the sticky on Joe DeFranco's articles and that'll give you a great base to shoot off of and much much better results.

Reko
05-11-2009, 10:02 PM
(Should someone call this dude a troll?)
I think hes clear.

WillNoble
05-12-2009, 07:24 AM
Honestly, Id drop that entire program all together.

Read through the sticky on Joe DeFranco's articles and that'll give you a great base to shoot off of and much much better results.

this...

Again more specifically the template in pt. III although I would strongly recommend all 3

AJL11
05-12-2009, 08:02 AM
Looks a little confusing to me.....Maybe if the whole program was present it would make more sense.......

I know Will and Travis recommended WSFSB III, and I probaly would too, but just know that when you get to school (depending on the university you attend) you will more than likely not be able to free lance, and do your own program........

WillNoble
05-12-2009, 08:11 AM
Looks a little confusing to me.....Maybe if the whole program was present it would make more sense.......

I know Will and Travis recommended WSFSB III, and I probaly would too, but just know that when you get to school (depending on the university you attend) you will more than likely not be able to free lance, and do your own program........

Agreed, which sucks if you have a ****tty S&C coach/program

but it will make you value the summers more, esp. when you get a group of like minded guys to train with

Brad08
05-12-2009, 08:28 AM
I don't know about "optimal" for football but in general it seems pretty decent, especially if you're doing separate plyos, speed and conditioning work.

Exercise selection is solid. And basically it's 3x7 on a big lift, 'speed' work on another lift, followed by hypertrophy work on assistance exercises. Presumably the percentages used are waved week to week in some cyclical fashion.

You could do a lot worse, IMHO.

Travis Bell
05-12-2009, 08:35 AM
Agreed, which sucks if you have a ****tty S&C coach/program
but it will make you value the summers more, esp. when you get a group of like minded guys to train with

Seems to be a more common issue

I've gone over stuff for several college athletes for the summer, and many of them are getting packets just like this.

They aren't the worst thing I've ever seen prescribed for a football player, but it's not the most productive.

What I get frustrated with some of the other S&C coaches is they aren't interested in using the most productive program or getting the absolute most out of their athletes that they possibly can. It would seem some just want an easy way out.

Brad is right though, it's not the worst thing ever and quite typical, just not the best way to go

schmitty199
05-12-2009, 06:44 PM
Seems to be a more common issue

I've gone over stuff for several college athletes for the summer, and many of them are getting packets just like this.

They aren't the worst thing I've ever seen prescribed for a football player, but it's not the most productive.

What I get frustrated with some of the other S&C coaches is they aren't interested in using the most productive program or getting the absolute most out of their athletes that they possibly can. It would seem some just want an easy way out.

Brad is right though, it's not the worst thing ever and quite typical, just not the best way to go

Well their S&C coach is supposed to be pretty good, but im sure everyone says that about their guy.

Thanks for the input! Im still debating whether I should just do what the packet says, or go with another routine like DeFrancos and pretty much say screw the packet until I get there.

Id really prefer to workout 4 days a week in the summer, if I were to follow the packet to a tee on those three days, what kind of workout would you recommend me doing to go along with this as the 4th day?

slashkills
05-12-2009, 07:27 PM
Depends on what your rep work looks like further on in the routine. If it the amount of reps get smaller i would do maybe a rep day for a couple of the main lifts. Or do a bodybuilder type workout to help add mass. Are you going to have practice days when you are working out with this routine? if you do you might not want that extra day in the weight room.

Travis Bell
05-12-2009, 09:04 PM
Well their S&C coach is supposed to be pretty good, but im sure everyone says that about their guy.

Thanks for the input! Im still debating whether I should just do what the packet says, or go with another routine like DeFrancos and pretty much say screw the packet until I get there.

Id really prefer to workout 4 days a week in the summer, if I were to follow the packet to a tee on those three days, what kind of workout would you recommend me doing to go along with this as the 4th day?

Pick one or the other. Mixing both will get you less return on your energy than doing just one.

If you follow the packet, do lots of conditioning work on the 4th day.

DeFrancos would be a very wise choice if you read up on it enough to know how to put it into practice. Highly recommend it.

CrazyK
05-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Seems to be a more common issue

I've gone over stuff for several college athletes for the summer, and many of them are getting packets just like this.

They aren't the worst thing I've ever seen prescribed for a football player, but it's not the most productive.

What I get frustrated with some of the other S&C coaches is they aren't interested in using the most productive program or getting the absolute most out of their athletes that they possibly can. It would seem some just want an easy way out.

Brad is right though, it's not the worst thing ever and quite typical, just not the best way to goMy S&C coach in college in a nutshell. Same program year in and year out with absolutely no adaptation. Same shoulder injuries year and year out. The guy advocated doing 5 different types of presses with not a single pull. His idea of extension was a full squat. We lobbied our coaches my junior year and got him fired.

Mike G
05-13-2009, 06:41 AM
Schmitty, it's not that bad, but because it's not WSFSB it won't get approval.

Crazy, what did you do until your coach was fired, follow your own routine?

WillNoble
05-13-2009, 06:42 AM
Schmitty, it's not that bad, but because it's not WSFSB it won't get approval.

find me a better generally available football training program and I'll gladly recommend it instead...

Brad08
05-13-2009, 07:36 AM
Pick one or the other. Mixing both will get you less return on your energy than doing just one.

If you follow the packet, do lots of conditioning work on the 4th day.



+1

If you're gonna do the program, do the program. If you start monkey****!ng it from teh get go, you're gonna look back and say "that program sucked" but you never gave it an honest try b/c you monkey****3d it from the start. LoL

CrazyK
05-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Schmitty, it's not that bad, but because it's not WSFSB it won't get approval.

Crazy, what did you do until your coach was fired, follow your own routine?As a freshman and sophomore I had to follow his routine. Luckily that was only for winter conditioning. Once I had more bargaining power with the coaching staff as a Junior (actually told them I'd quit if I had to keep training that way) I was able to do my own thing. Eventually the staff received enough complaints from the players that they let him go.

Mike G
05-13-2009, 10:04 AM
find me a better generally available football training program and I'll gladly recommend it instead...

What makes it the best generally available football training program? Serious question, because it's not a football specific workout, especially when DeFranco talks about basketball players and wrestlers he has helped.

WillNoble
05-13-2009, 12:06 PM
What makes it the best generally available football training program? Serious question, because it's not a football specific workout, especially when DeFranco talks about basketball players and wrestlers he has helped.

Yes he's trained other athletes with it, but seen ultimate success in working with high school, collegiate, and Pro football players. You can train any athlete with any template and see results, but is it optimal? Will you see the best carry-over to what really matters most? Im sure there are better protocols out there for basketball and baseball, but lets face the facts that benching more or decreasing your 40 time is not going to improve your 3-point shot.

Is WS4SB the best protocol out there for football? Its debatable, as Joe Kenn (and many others) have done amazing things in the field, but they arent offering there programs up to any joe on the street. What I mean by generally available is accessable to the public. Any high school kid who doesnt have the cash to plop down on customized training can glean great amounts from Defranco. Couple with that, that the program has produced highly pronounced results FOR FOOTBALL, yes he trains other athletes, but the initial question and all my subsequent recommendations are for FOOTBALL None of us here (at least me, anyway) are saying WS4SB is for EVERY athlete, far from it. All the pimping of this protocol Ive done is geared solely for its intended audience...football players

KingJustin
05-13-2009, 12:32 PM
I'll add 2 things:

I've personally done WS4SB before when my goal was basically to get bigger and stronger and faster (this was about 2.5 years ago). I had great results with it and it's a great program. It has been proven and every year DeFranco makes college players lottery picks.

I think that CrossFit Football (http://www.crossfitfootball) is also a good program. This has been almost-discussed in other threads, and the general consensus was that (a) it's not sport-specific enough, and (b) there's too much cardio at the expense of strength training. Imo (b) is not really warranted.
The programming was looked at in much (much) more detail at Cathletics.com by a bunch of high level Oly lifters, strongmen, and athletes with similar qualifications as the people here and almost everyone agreed the program was excellent at improving strength to a great extent and conditioning to a great extent. There was some discussion about whether the workouts could improve on-the-field strength and conditioning a little more at the expense of losing some general strength and conditioning, but the general agreement was that CFFB takes into account the fact that equipment is often limited and the loss of on-the-field strength was pretty minimal relative to "proven" systems. The generality of the program would generally be more beneficial to less-elite players (i.e. players in the NFL would be better off following something more sport-specific).
Note that the programming is a lot different from the CrossFit programming on the main site.
The CFFB programming is very similar to what a lot of pro football players do, according to the person programming the site -- ex O-lineman for the Chiefs -- but it has only been around for a month, so there are no "results" yet, other than the fact that the person hosting the site has personally followed the same programming over the past year to (a) greatly increase muscle endurance, (b) greatly increase cardio, and (c) increase his "CrossFit Football Total" (power clean, squat, bench, deadlift) from 1800 to 2250. This is pretty well documented, and you can see John Welbourn's stats prior to the 2008 Games, after about 6 months of CrossFit, and compare it to his stats now (after 1.5 years).

Travis Bell
05-13-2009, 01:37 PM
Justin, this has been discussed over and over and over about how that is not a good program and is in fact even worse than the person's original program. Not "almost discussed"

If you're going to try and take it down that road again, I'm just going to have to lock the thread.

I understand you want to recommend your favorite program so lets just stay away from another illogical and discombobulated debate

KingJustin
05-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Travis, why does Will get to recommend the program that he likes, and I don't? There's obviously a Westside bias on these forums. But, on a lot of other forums (i.e. the one I mentioned), there's equally successful athletes/coaches (i.e. Glenn Pendlay, Mark Rippetoe, Greg Everett) that gave a much much much more honest look at the program and came to different conclusions. It didn't take 5 pages for someone to realize that there was strength work on the right side of the page, and it didn't take 7 pages to realize that this wasn't the same workout as the CrossFit.com main site (it's like the difference between looking at Westside for an MMA fighter vs. Westside for a powerlifter).

I like Westside a lot, too, and I am not knocking Louie or Joe or anyone else. I said myself that his program worked great for me and I honestly do recommend it as a good program, although I think there are alternatives. A lot of the sport-specific critiques (i.e. use a prowler) aren't possible for people that don't have a prowler -- possibly including the OP.

Additionally, I added a very fair critique of the program that summed up what you and Will said in other threads.

Brad08
05-13-2009, 02:06 PM
It didn't take 5 pages for someone to realize that there was strength work on the right side of the page, and it didn't take 7 pages to realize that this wasn't the same workout as the CrossFit.com main site

It also didn't take 3 threads to demonstrate the many, many flaws in your pet football "program" that is highly promoted, yet completely untested.

KingJustin
05-13-2009, 02:13 PM
It also didn't take 3 threads to demonstrate the many, many flaws in your pet football "program" that is highly promoted, yet completely untested.

My point being that people that are respected in the S&C community actually did look closely at the program, and came out with different opinions when looking at it objectively.

Most of the (single) thread discussing CFFB went sorta like this:
Other dudes: Dude, CF hasn't produced a single elite athlete ever
Me: (Listed athletes)
Other dudes: WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH FOOTBALL?! FOOTBALL IS NOT THE SAME AS MMA.

or involved people critiquing their impressions of the main site workouts without actually looking at the CFFB page.

At any rate, the recommendation stands: Joe DeFranco's system is great and I recommend it. You should also take a look at CFFB for a different approach that will be more effective than your current program. (There is nothing more sport-specific about the current program, and I am certain that both strength & conditioning will be improved much more through CFFB)

WillNoble
05-13-2009, 02:29 PM
another thread ruined

=Travis=
05-13-2009, 02:38 PM
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread
lock thread

KingJustin
05-13-2009, 02:42 PM
I agree.

You thread lockers are so funny, though. If you don't want to discuss something, just don't discuss it.

WillNoble
05-13-2009, 02:46 PM
it has been discussed you mindless CF nutswinger

you are wrong...

We are correct...

quit whining and go find another board

=Travis=
05-13-2009, 02:49 PM
it has been discussed you mindless cf nutswinger

you are wrong...

We are correct...

Quit whining and go find another board

+1


now lock thread

CrazyK
05-13-2009, 02:49 PM
I agree.

You thread lockers are so funny, though. If you don't want to discuss something, just don't discuss it.Everyone here is dead sick of your lame CF commercials. You've never played football, coached football, or trained a football player. All of us have done at least one of these things and all have concluded that you are incorrect.

Stop trolling and stop giving advice where you have no place to give it.

Mike G
05-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Yes he's trained other athletes with it, but seen ultimate success in working with high school, collegiate, and Pro football players. You can train any athlete with any template and see results, but is it optimal? Will you see the best carry-over to what really matters most? Im sure there are better protocols out there for basketball and baseball, but lets face the facts that benching more or decreasing your 40 time is not going to improve your 3-point shot.

I can say that being faster and being stronger doesn't help you catch either, but being able to catch better is not the point of lifting.

Is WS4SB the best protocol out there for football? Its debatable, as Joe Kenn (and many others) have done amazing things in the field, but they arent offering there programs up to any joe on the street. What I mean by generally available is accessable to the public. Any high school kid who doesnt have the cash to plop down on customized training can glean great amounts from Defranco. Couple with that, that the program has produced highly pronounced results FOR FOOTBALL, yes he trains other athletes, but the initial question and all my subsequent recommendations are for FOOTBALL None of us here (at least me, anyway) are saying WS4SB is for EVERY athlete, far from it. All the pimping of this protocol Ive done is geared solely for its intended audience...football players

For the record, I've followed the program and had really good results. I've also followed other programs and had better results. Does that make one optimal compared to the others, not to me, because there are too many variables. I'm not looking to put down any program because I honestly think WSFSB is a good program, but I want to hear why some of you think it's so much better than what the OP posted. Not because of results that guys that worked with DeFranco had (guys that were already studs when they came to him in many cases), but what makes this protocol so good.

Travis Bell
05-13-2009, 02:52 PM
I agree.

You thread lockers are so funny, though. If you don't want to discuss something, just don't discuss it.

Justin, you are quickly turning every thread into a CF debate. Knock it off.

Travis Bell
05-13-2009, 02:57 PM
Travis, why does Will get to recommend the program that he likes, and I don't?

For the record, this has nothing at all to do with who recommended what program. There are many many programs out there that work and work well. What the OP outlined that he got in his packet CAN work.

However, your continual desires to turn everything into a debate and regurgetate the same information over and over is pointless and ruins threads.

Will and I actually disagree on somethings, but we don't pull everything into an argument at the drop of a hat.

Sensei and I disagree on some points. Again, we don't turn every thread into a needless debate

You however can't seem to find that happy medium between being convinced and obsessed about CF and it's just getting old. I'm a very open minded person, especially when it comes to internet discussions, but this whole subject has just been beaten to death and you won't let it go.

PM me if you have any further questions and I'd be more than happy to explain it to you.