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icnelly
05-19-2009, 12:40 AM
6'1@ 212 lbs with 12%BF. Been working at a deficit for a long time (lost 212 lbs to date). I want to cut more, 8-10% and hopefully around 190-200lbs, but I'm having a tough time with energy levels and feeling totally drained throughout parts of the day and prior to my workout--it's ****ing with my motivation.

WO plan:

5 days a week--run a mile for a warm-up every day, then weights, then 30 mins of SS eliptical 2xwk, 20-30 mins of jump rope 1xwk, and a GPP circuit 1xwk.

Diet plan:

2246cals@ 48%carbs, 34% protein, and 18% fat

Meal 1: 1 cup oatmeal, 4 tbsps brown sugar, 1 tbsp cinnamon

Meal 2: 200g rice, green peppers, cabbage, 150g tuna

Meal 3: Protein shake and 2 tbsps peanut butter post workout

Meal 4: 400g sweet potato, 200g chicken, assorted greens, garlic, peppers and more cabbage.

How much of a deficit is too much?

Where should I be in relation to my maintenence figure?

What can I do to ensure a more even energy span throughout the entire day?

I'm a real eater, so I'd like to retain large meals, but I'm thinking I need to find other ways to fill them up without the carb bombs. I'm thinking axe the complex carbs in the AM and for lunch, and replace them with green fiber rich sources + 100 grams sweet potatos with all meals until post workout shake, and than move the 200g of rice into my dinner. Also, add in a pre workout meal, and a meal in between breakfast and lunch.

For anyone else interested, I found these related threads:

1. Daily Calorie Cycling (http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27368&highlight=maintenence+diets)

2. Student Needs Help with Diet Nutrition (http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27014&highlight=maintenence+diets)

3. Best Complex Carbs for Cutting (http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103298&highlight=glycemic+effects)

4. How Much Do You Need to Eat? (http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76116&highlight=glycemic+effects)

VikingWarlord
05-19-2009, 10:14 AM
6'1@ 212 lbs with 12%BF. Been working at a deficit for a long time (lost 212 lbs to date). I want to cut more, 8-10% and hopefully around 190-200lbs, but I'm having a tough time with energy levels and feeling totally drained throughout parts of the day and prior to my workout--it's ****ing with my motivation.

First, good work on the loss so far. Am I reading it correctly in that you've lost HALF your starting bodyweight?


WO plan:

5 days a week--run a mile for a warm-up every day, then weights, then 30 mins of SS eliptical 2xwk, 20-30 mins of jump rope 1xwk, and a GPP circuit 1xwk.

This could be a hell of a lot more efficient. Since this is the diet forum, I'll leave that alone for now aside from saying that you should be throwing in some HIIT. There's more, but that can be directed to another forum.


Diet plan:

2246cals@ 48%carbs, 34% protein, and 18% fat

Meal 1: 1 cup oatmeal, 4 tbsps brown sugar, 1 tbsp cinnamon

Meal 2: 200g rice, green peppers, cabbage, 150g tuna

Meal 3: Protein shake and 2 tbsps peanut butter post workout

Meal 4: 400g sweet potato, 200g chicken, assorted greens, garlic, peppers and more cabbage.

You're better off with protein and carb for post workout. Eat the peanut butter at another time.

Add more protein and more fat. Add some protein in the morning. 4tsp is a lot of brown sugar, and if you actually meant 4tbsp, you need to stop that right now.

Aside from that, your carbohydrate level is WAY too high. As a former chubmonster, you're probably going to have a screwed up system and your insulin sensitivity is boned. A lot of people that have been way overfat for long periods of time can't handle carbohydrates like everyone else. They will make you hungry and miserable.

Keep the carbs around the workout.


How much of a deficit is too much?

When you're losing too much muscle, you're in too much of a deficit.


Where should I be in relation to my maintenence figure?

With the amount of work you're doing 5 days per week, I wouldn't say you should go less than about 15% or so below maintenance. You can get away with a bigger deficit if you're doing less work.


What can I do to ensure a more even energy span throughout the entire day?

Stop with so much starch.


I'm a real eater, so I'd like to retain large meals, but I'm thinking I need to find other ways to fill them up without the carb bombs. I'm thinking axe the complex carbs in the AM and for lunch, and replace them with green fiber rich sources + 100 grams sweet potatos with all meals until post workout shake, and than move the 200g of rice into my dinner. Also, add in a pre workout meal, and a meal in between breakfast and lunch.

Again, stop with all the friggin' starch. You're begging for trouble that way. More protein, more fat, less carbs. Even out your intake and everything else will work itself out.

icnelly
05-19-2009, 09:46 PM
Again, stop with all the friggin' starch. You're begging for trouble that way. More protein, more fat, less carbs. Even out your intake and everything else will work itself out.

Thanks! I really appreciate the time you took for this.

I've been doing alot of planning since last night. I looked through my notes from about 6-7 months ago, and found why I started with the starch and high carbs. I was basically under the impression that by doing much more work (4-6 days exercising) I WOULD need more carbs, and beyond that I also wrote down that the amount of aerobic exercise I did WOULD dictate how much of my carbs should be starchy.

A couple of questions:

Is aerobic exercise/energy related to complex carb intake?

How much does caloric deficit and micronutrition play into lethargy?

Plan:

Axe the oatmeal, rice, and replace most starchy carb spots with veggies, green peas, or beans. Add a protein and fat source to breakfast. Keep sweet potatoes as the carbs before and after W/O, but also with protein and some fat. All carbs will be low to middle glycemic index, and I'm going try and intake a similar amount of carbs with each meal.

I'll work it out on Fitday.com and post the details later.

Here are 2 webpages that I read through:

Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load (http://www.aboutmydiet.com/PhysicianWellnessProgram/glycemic%20index%20vs%20glycemic%20load.pdf)

Pre and Post Workout Nutrition (http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/post-workout-nutrition.html)

icnelly
05-20-2009, 04:44 AM
Here's my new split: 2670 cals@29% carbs, 45% protein, and 26% fat.

The gram figures work out to 187.4 carbs, 290.6 protein, 77.9 fat.

6 meals a day with the only starchy carbs being sweet potato pre and post-workout. All other carbs come from veggies (onions, cauliflower, cabbage, peppers, garlic) fruit (1 apple between bfast and lunch), or legumes (peas and beans).

Pimpstick
05-20-2009, 07:05 AM
Up your fat by 25 grams or so, cut your carbs or protein by 50 grams or so.

Not eating enough fat can lead to many problems, brittle nails, dry skin / hair, feeling depleted, etc. Shoot for .5 gram / lb. of body weight. In your case, 106 grams per day.

I'm curious, do you look like a kangaroo after losing that much weight (a big pouch of loose skin on front). And what's it like weighing half of your starting weight? How much different do you feel?

Really, really good job by the way. Always a plus to have one less obese person clogging the grocery store aisles :)

VikingWarlord
05-20-2009, 07:27 AM
Is aerobic exercise/energy related to complex carb intake?

Aerobic? Not exactly. Somewhat, but aerobic exercise as your primary form of training won't get you much additional fat loss, especially if it's all steady state. Unless you're training as an endurance athlete, you can keep in good cardiovascular shape with some HIIT and maybe one or two days of steady state for 20-25 minutes. More than that isn't necessary, just boost the intensity instead of the time. Steady state cardio doesn't actually require a whole lot of energy and doesn't burn a whole lot either.


How much does caloric deficit and micronutrition play into lethargy?

This is going to depend a lot on your own chemistry. The bigger the deficit, the more likely you are to experience lethargy. Personally, I use a controlled fast and have absolutely NO energy problems throughout the day without it. You stick with something with consistency for long enough and your body will adapt to it.

A deficiency in any one micronutrient can cause different problems. If you're worried about that, get ahold of some ionized mineral supplements. If you want a little more energy, try throwing in some vitamin B12 before you train. A good multivitamin supplement should take care of most of your needs but you might choose to add a little something extra here and there.

Pimpstick got the rest of it. Ignore the Glycemic Index article for the most part. It means **** all when you start mixing foods.

icnelly
05-21-2009, 05:49 AM
I'm curious, do you look like a kangaroo after losing that much weight (a big pouch of loose skin on front). And what's it like weighing half of your starting weight? How much different do you feel?

Check these pics:

January 2006 (roughly 420 lbs, but unsure: it took 2 scales)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2464/3550587043_41aaab30c7_m.jpg

February 2006 (same)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3588/3551405974_ee2b1e2ab2_m.jpg

May 2009 (211-213lbs)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3594/3551395520_0dcc74061e_m.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/3551395374_27092cf867_m.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3550586769_e3eed44caa_m.jpg

I started clean in January 07, and have been working since. The difference is absolutely amazing. Walking up extra flights of stairs by accident, truly loving the exercise mentality I've built (wouldn't trade it for the world). Not to mention the motivation this provides. When it gets tough, I simply think about how much I've done and usually crack a big ole smile. Still got a ways to go, but I'm good for it.

So I knocked my fat up a bit more and took a bit away from the carbs and protein. Fitday has all my micronutrients in the green. Now, I'll start looking at retooling my WO.

Pimpstick, VikingWarlord, this helps me a ton. Thanks!

VikingWarlord
05-21-2009, 09:44 AM
Damn dude, that's some awesome progress. Looks like you've got a little bit of extra skin but you look young enough that it'll snap back. You put those comparison shots up in the Pics/Videos forum?

Holto
05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Good lord this is amazing.

*hat's off*

Pimpstick
05-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Again good job on the weight loss.

If you had some red sweatpants in that second picture, you totally coulda pulled a kool-aid man back in the day!!