Sugar alcohols dont count as carbs right?

[twm]

I am starting UD2.0 next week. i'm about to buy some novus bars as a MRP bar. Like the title says, sugar alcohols don't count as carbs, right?

[Auburn]

Sugar alcohols have varying amounts of Calories/gram, but it's a good idea to treat them as fiber. That means ~2-2.5 Calories/gram or about 2 grams sugar alcohols = 1 gram carbohydrates.

[twm]

hmm.. the novus wrapper says that its 3g of net carbs and i shouldn't consider the sugar alcohols. sounds like this will work fine. thanks

[Tom Mutaffis]

Sugar Alcohols are not counted as impact carbohydrates, but are still a carbohydrate as Auburn mentioned. Impact carbohydrates are those that will effect your blood sugar levels, and non-impact carbs are things like fiber and sugar alcohols.

To determine "impact carbs" you take the amount of sugar in a food and subtract the amount of fiber.

For example:

Product A: 15 grams sugar, 5 grams fiber, 10 grams sugar alcohol / 15 - 5 = 10 grams impact
Product B: 10 grams sugar, 0 grams fiber, 5 grams sugar alcohol / 10 (sugar) = 10 grams impact

Product A will be higher in calories but your body will look at them in the same way with regard to insulin spike and blood sugar levels. Many diets focus on impact carbohydrates including the extremely popular Atkins Diet.

[Skalami]

just like splenda is actually 2 calories per packet. But is this micro-management of carbs really necessary?

[Unreal]

For UD2.0 it is. You would not want to be eating Novus bars or any sugar alcohols on the low carb days in my opinion.

[Tom Mutaffis]

just like splenda is actually 2 calories per packet. But is this micro-management of carbs really necessary?

Managing types of carbohydrates is very important if your goal is improved body composition.

Just as how all proteins are not created equal, the same holds true for carbohydrates. A good place to start would be looking at a glycemic index chart - this gives an understanding of which foods or types of carbs will have the greatest impact on blood sugar levels.

When blood sugar spikes, insulin spikes - if you consume fats during that period it is likely that they will be stored. Carbohydrates that break down slowly do not create a large spike in blood sugar which makes them ideal for those who are looking to decrease bodyfat. For PWO shakes or creatine supplementation increased insulin levels can sometimes help aid in the uptake of proteins and other nutrients. This is why people take things like dextrose or WMS.

Fiber is a very important part of your diet as is nutrient timing and managing sugar intake.

Here is a good Q&A about insulin from John Berardi:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/insulin.htm

[twm]

For UD2.0 it is. You would not want to be eating Novus bars or any sugar alcohols on the low carb days in my opinion.

did you try it both ways? I will avoid eating them on my low carb days, thanks for the input

[Tom Mutaffis]

Here is some good information on sugar alcohols:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whattoeat/a/sugaralcohols.htm

You will see that Malitol (which is in Novus bars) is about half the glycemic index of regular sugar, making it a much better alternative - but it may still have some impact on ketosis if you are doing a low carb diet.

Really you have to weigh your options and if the 36 grams of protein is important to you, then the impact on your overall diet would not be any worse than say eating a piece of fruit. Most programs suggest that for the first 2 weeks of low carb diets to stay away from sugar alcohols, but it does severely limit your options (meat, eggs, broccoli) - and then once you have reached ketosis adding in products like Novus bars would not have a negative impact on your diet.

Are you dieting for bodybuilding or just dieting in general? Many people make the mistake of eating way too clean when dieting in general and loose a ton of muscle mass. I am not saying that you should eat protein bars all day, but I know a lot of people and even have personally been in single digit bodyfat eating 3-4 bars per week. Nutrient timing is everything and these make for a great snack without "cheating".

My advice would be to start off the first two weeks extremely strict and then add in the bars after that for a boost in protein and to keep your body from depleting too much. This should also help to curb some of your cravings.

**If you are on a carb cycling program (which it sounds like you might be) then simply leave them off the menu for "low carb" days but they are fine on "moderate" and "high" carb days. You should only be doing 1-3 "low" days per week depending on the phase of your dieting.

[Unreal]

The point of low carb in ud2.0 is not to regulate blood sugar but to deplete muscles of glycogen. As far as I know the sugar alcohols can still be used for that purpose. While they may not spike blood sugar they would negate the purpose of low carb/depletion training for ud2.0. It is only 3.5 days of the week you are low carb, so if you want to use them fit them into the other days. They would work great on days 6/7. I wouldn't use them for the carb loading.

[twm]

Tom, Nick, thank you.

After reading more here and at Lyle's site, i completely agree.. I am trying to stay sub 50 carbs Mon-Weds and low carb until PM thursday.. basically, I'm going to follow the UD2 diet and advice from body recomp forums to the T and see how it goes. I'm only really dieting for vanity.. I want to look good before I fatten up again to try to pack on more muscle after summer is over.

[Tom Mutaffis]

I did some reading on his site, forum, and even looked up some interviews and articles that he had written. Lyle is opposed to most sugar alcohols from what he has posted. Then again his diet goes against what many of the other carbohydrate cycling programs do.

My concern is that your training would likely suffer greatly and this may be more of a short term program rather than something that is a long term solution, as many have said about the anabolic diet as well.

Carb cycling makes sense, but eating <50 carbs per day for (3) consecutive days is going to put some serious stress on your body unless all other factors are perfectly in line (additional sleep, no training, high protein, stimulants for energy support, etc.). Most carb cycling programs go something like this: low, low, very low, high, low, very low, very low, high, low, low, etc. whereas this program looks like it goes: very low, very low, very low, high, high, moderate, moderate.

I am interested to see what kind of results are generated since you obviously are an experienced trainee.

As for the Novus bars, they are conisdered to be low glycemic index regardless of viewpoints on malitol - but I would save them for your non starving days just to be safe (Thurs-Sun).

[Unreal]

Tom, UD2.0 is ALOT more then just diet. It has a whole training program. Everyone I know that has used it and followed it has made great results. The workouts on the low carb days are to deplete glycogen and are light weight, high rep, low rest sets. Then on day 4 you take in some carbs prework, do a tension workout. After the carb load you do a power workout lifting really heavy. There is a lot to it. Lots of people have their lifts go up weekly while still losing body fat.

In the book it even says it isn't for everyone. It is a diet for the lean to get very lean. Going from 18 to 15% he suggest something more normal. Going from 10% to 7% is where UD2.0 and some more tailored diets come into play.

[twm]

Agreed on the Malitol -- as far as the 50 carbs, sorry I meant to say I am going to try stay at exactly 50g for Mon-Weds not sub 50g.

My one worry is if I should wait at least another week or two before starting in order to let me metabolism recover more. Lyle recommends 7-14 days if you've been dieting before starting UD2. If i started monday, I'd be right at 7 days and 50% of my maintenance would be 1300 cals.. 2600cals really seems like nothing for maintenance for someone at my weight and height (6' 192lbs). i want to do it right but god am I sick of dieting.

If i matched the regimen recommended my cals on mon/tues/weds would be:

200g protein
50g carbs
33g fat

10g of those fats would be fish oil.. i don't see how I'm even going to be able to get only 23g of additional fat while consuming 200g of protein and 50g of carbs.. seems like I'm going to go over no matter what in the fat dept which would push me beyond 1300 daily calories set in the program. 23g of fat is like 1 tbsp of olive oil and maybe ill just take another 10g of fish oil. I'm going to try to play with calorie combinations this weekend.. but realistically, i'm doubting how I can set this up, in all honesty, without waiting another week or two for my metabolism to rebound again so I have more room to maneuver calorie-wise.

[Unreal]

Protein supplements and things like tuna/chicken are going to be your friend. The VLC days suck.

[adamantiumxl]

I think that the impact of sugar alcohols in a surplus calorie environment has not been looked at enough to make the kind of judgements that people make about them. but thats just my opinion