havoc, what's the deal with this

[PHOENIX]

my trainer suggested that to me. I am not even that strong, but he said this would be good for cutting up and getting strong. I am going regularly to the gym and making good progress. however, what are the possible side effects of this? I can buy this from GNC or something?

thanks!

[samadhi_smiles]

you need proper PCT after it. Its a designer steroid. Look up epistane for more information (same chemical in epistane as havoc).

[Tom Mutaffis]

Is this a trainer at a commercial gym suggesting "Havoc"? I would not recommend that product.

As Samadhi mentioned you can do some research on Epistane, which is a relatively ineffective designer steroid that carries a number of side effects.

If you are just getting started with supplements the best thing to look into would be a good quality protein shake for post-workout. Taking in some good high quality protein immediately after training is one of the most important things that you can do. After that I would look at quality creatine products, starting out with creapure creatine monohydrate (Prolab, Optimum, ISS, and Atlarge Nutrition all sell this form).

For someone who is looking to burn more fat then a caffeine based stimulant can help to give you a boost in metabolism and support energy levels while dieting. General health supplements like fish oil and multi-vitamin are also important.

Designer steroids like Havoc will do you more harm than good - acne, high blood pressure, limited sexual function, etc. with only moderate gains in the gym and most of it will be water retention.

Here is a good place to start with supplements: www.atlargenutrition.com

I would always recommend going to Vitamin Shoppe over GNC if you are looking for a retail store. Their pricing is much better, they have a larger selection, and the staff is generally more knowledgeable.

[Skalami]

i thought i read Havoc was particularly damaging on your system the stuff just rips through your liver. Their are actually PH makers that add in stuff that hurts you more because a lot of young-uns equate pain with the stuff working! Thats no lie. People say "i feel great back pumps" well the stuff is specifically designed to inflamme your muscles like an injury would!

After doing a bunch of searching i opted not to do a PH cycle as it seems theirs a lot of conflicting reviews and its only small no/little name companies making them and even if you do get a little out ofthe product when youre done with it and you go to the gym for months afterwards youll feel like its pointless you'll dread every workout.

Look at it this way 2 months from now you might have made a bit more gains on Havoc but 6 months from now you will be lifting less overall then you would have had you just tried to get the most out of your workouts and diet routine. Instead post up your workout and diet and let people critique because first off if thats not 100% you wont get nearly what you should off this Havoc crap anyways if your routine is off tweaking it WILL produce more results then a PH cycle.

If you really want something look for an energy booster pre-workout. Try coffee,a scoop of cocoa powder and a scoop of protein powder (in a glass of low sugar apple juice or a diet v8 or something) if you've cut back on chocolate then the cocoa in the powder will give you a little boost and ive just read somewhere it has a similar effect as NO to open up the blood vessels.

All this PH,supp stuff isnt worth it IMO. Look how the smallest strangest companies are really the only ones making it. Do you see Muscle Tech making a PH? if it was a legit way to make cash wouldnt they jump on? Not to say their stuff is good its not but its just strange that the big-boys arent jumping on this latest round of PH's. Also it seems like all the good ones were made illegal and its just people trying to rename their stuff to old product names to cash in on that. I wouldnt be suprised if Havoc was a reformulation of an older Havoc PH.

Also lastly, you cant trust a lot of forums out there. These supp companies pay people to stay on the pc all day and post their supposed cycles and how they gained, sometimes actually saying it wasnt much but just enough to get someone interested. When i was looking i posted on anabolicminds or some such site.. and their are a lot of legit people there but i got a few pms from supposed regular people pushing one company or another sometimes very covertly so it was hard to tell. Point is; dont neccassarily trust what you read on the forums. Wannabebig is a bit of an exception so far and you'll notice it has a lot less PH talk then most forums.

[n4rd0]

Look at it this way 2 months from now you might have made a bit more gains on Havoc but 6 months from now you will be lifting less overall then you would have had you just tried to get the most out of your workouts and diet routine. Instead post up your workout and diet and let people critique because first off if thats not 100% you wont get nearly what you should off this Havoc crap anyways if your routine is off tweaking it WILL produce more results then a PH cycle.



Man I love wbb I always forget that PH's are such a scam but wbb is always there to smack some sense into me.

[Mercuryblade]

I would always recommend going to Vitamin Shoppe over GNC if you are looking for a retail store. Their pricing is much better, they have a larger selection, and the staff is generally more knowledgeable.

Pre-pubescent girls usually have more knowledge about weightlifting supplements than the average GNC employee.

[Smallwood]

I HATE going into GNC because of the staff. First of all, they are pushing whatever **** earns them a little commission. Second of all, you can't look in peace for anything. No I don't want SUPER ENLARGE MASS EXPLOSIVE CREA-LEU-NOX-PLOSION for 10 dollars a tab. Yeah, but with the Havoc - don't run it. At the gym I work out in, these guys never run PCT and get some nasty sides. Not worth it IMO. Stick to the basics and work hard.