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Sensei
05-24-2009, 04:04 PM
I was going through some of my older notes that I had written up a while back and came upon this. I don't know if anyone will find it informational or not, but the following are common interval protocols for lactate threshold training and examples of how those might be used in a weight room setting:

Long Sprints W. Long Rest - 3-8 x:50-2:00 repeat exertions w. 5-10:00 rest inbetween repeats

Example:
Squat w. 315 x 1:00 (as many reps as possible) x 5 sets, 5 mins rest inbetween each


Sprints w. Medium Rest Intervals - 6-12 x :15-1:00 repeat exertions w. :15-1:00 rest inbetween repeats

Example:
20 kettlebell swings x 10 on :45 (using analog clock, start on top, :45, :30, :15, top, etc...)

Sprints w. Short Rest Intervals - 1-3 sets of :15-1:00 repeat exertions w. :05-:15 rest inbetween repeats, and more inbetween sets.

Example:
Tabata
(probably) EDT w. a shorter "PR Zone"

Tom Mutaffis
05-26-2009, 10:21 AM
Interesting training methods, what would you say is the biggest benefit - or which athletes may benefit most from this?

I have noticed that I do a lot of threshold training with strongman (training to failure within a given time frame, max distance carries, medleys, etc.)

Sensei
05-28-2009, 05:17 AM
You could certainly use these with multiple exercises (a la circuit training), but most sports that use intervals like these in regular training would be cyclic sports like swimming, running, rowing, etc. Other sports might use them as part of their S&C training, like boxing or MMA.

I would imagine that if you were training for strongman, intervals like these could have a place in your training, but it would depend on how much a factor lactic acid build-up is in the events. Anything less than :40 is probably not going to see a lot of benefit from this, except just as general conditioning.

brihead301
05-28-2009, 10:43 AM
I've been reading a lot about this, and about how much more beneficial interval training is for the aerobic system as opposed to LSD.

A lot of these studies also compared different types of interval training, and it was shown that "sprints w/ short rest periods" (ie tabata, or gurilla cardio) produced the best results.

I've been taking these MMA classes for a few months, and we spar a lot, and I definately can understand that intervals w/short rest periods would benefit me much more then moderate paced, long-distance running, which is what I was doing for a while.

Good stuff!

BTW: I can run at a pretty good pace for a pretty long time on the elliptical with the resistance on max, and I feel fine afterwards. If I do a tabata session on it though (8 intervals: 20 s sprints/10 s slow paced running) then I feel like I'm about to collapse and die afterwards. The lactic acid buildup in my legs is so painful that I can't even push in the clutch on my car when I'm done. That tells me something right there.

J.C.
05-28-2009, 12:53 PM
I've been reading a lot about this, and about how much more beneficial interval training is for the aerobic system as opposed to LSD.

In what way is it "more beneficial"? They are different training methods and should be seen as such.

This is kind of restating Tom's question but when and why would you recommend doing this type of training with weights? I have experience doing this sort of thing from my rowing days, although it would usually be confined to the rowing machine or sometimes bodyweight circuits - we were specifically training to take up the pace in the boat when things were getting tough.

With weights would it just be a way to mix things up, for general fitness, or for moving towards strongman-type training?

brihead301
05-28-2009, 01:56 PM
In what way is it "more beneficial"? They are different training methods and should be seen as such.


According to the studies I read, it's more beneficial for:

- fat loss
- aerobic conditioning
- more sport specific

I'm no expert, and I just started reading about this stuff, so I'm not trying to make any claims as if I know anything.

Tom Mutaffis
05-28-2009, 03:37 PM
It is definitely something to be considered.

I have been using supersets and drop sets in my training for over a decade now and in many ways that can parallel this lactic acid threshold training (performing to complete failure like "DC training" or performing sets for a given period of time).

Still trying to figure out what the best applications would be. My thoughts are that someone in a sport like wrestling may find the most benefit - since that is a mix of conditioning, pain tolerance, overall strength, and mental fortitude.

J.C.
05-29-2009, 06:39 AM
Still trying to figure out what the best applications would be. My thoughts are that someone in a sport like wrestling may find the most benefit - since that is a mix of conditioning, pain tolerance, overall strength, and mental fortitude.

Same. I think wrestling would benefit. Boxing would too. I used the rowing example, because its one of those few sports that require both excellent power/strength and excellent endurance. If you think about it, the movement is almost like a continuous series of max effort power cleans. A lot of the training done in the build-up to competitions is this sort of thing because it forces you to produce maximum output while working with extreme pain and fatigue - exactly what you need for that final sprint.

I wish I still had it, but I read an article on the boat race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boat_Race) guys who were doing lactate endurance training coupled with actual blood work. It was interesting to see how high their endurance of lactic acid got in the final weeks of training. Scary amounts were recorded. So much of it must be mental.

Sensei
05-29-2009, 06:52 AM
Any sport that tests anaerobic threshold would probably benefit from interval-like work, but how you do it is important. Not to beat a dead horse, but there's the SPP-GPP continuum thing we've been "discussing" around here...

Slash,
I didn't see the passages about lactate training in the link in the quick scan I did, but most cyclic sports will be doing a lot more race pace work later in the competitive season - it makes sense that there'd be more lactic acid in training there.

Travis Bell
05-29-2009, 08:33 AM
Interesting. I could see this working well for endurance athletes. Good stuff Sensei

Sensei
03-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Bumping this thread, just because I was searching for those intervals and I've lost my notes.

...and thank you Travis. I think it would something worth thinking about for anyone who is doing events lasting longer than :40 or so. The intensity issue isn't really addressed with what I gave above and that would need to be quantified to be of the most help, but the assumption is (w. 'sprint' work) that's it's HARD. Not necessarily 100% effort, but certainly a really good effort.

john o
03-05-2010, 12:21 AM
This type of training has always been the most difficult for me. I've done a lot of it over the years; playing soccer, boxing, mma. You can really kind of tweak it depending on the sport. In mma you want to be able to explosive when tired and retain strength to lift, manuever, or takedown your opponent. I agree the application is limited in tradtional powerlifting. I do feel for Tom it can be very useful. (I know from his journal he does similar stuff) I'd like to see some studies and I definitely am no expert, but I benefiitted in my recovery rate. It took longer to tire and shorter to recover. I realize that's anecdotal, but these methods have been used successfully in certain sports for a long time. Mental toughness was mentioned, and I think that's huge and also somethng that can be enhanced. This would be the most difficult to quantify.

J.C.
03-05-2010, 04:54 AM
Great stuff Sensei. Thanks for the bump. I've started doing interval training again to build conditioning, power and mental toughness and I'm looking for new ways of doing them.

I need to get some kettlebells.

Iplan
03-07-2010, 04:44 PM
All 4 categories should be trained according to your heart rate during the activity at the time::

1. Aerobic Training equals exercise when your heart rate is pumping according to the following formula: (220 - your age X .65 = your Aerobic heart rate) Plus minus 10 beats per minute. You should be able to operate forever at this capacity.

2 Aerobic Threshold (is easily figured as the point that you have trouble carrying on a conversation while you're training (because you feel out of breath when you talk and work at the same time). The forumla is 220 - your age X .75. Exercise is uncomfortable, but tolerable in this region.

3.Anerobic Threshold (really close to Aerobic Threshold, but "past" it), and is the point when you can no longer talk and train (The formula is 220 - your age X .85)

Anerobic Training is essentially sprint intensity, and rarely lasts over 45 seconds before it becomes Anerobic Threshold Training, as your body is not using Oxygen for fuel, and cannot last very long at this pace. Formula: 220 - your age X .95.

As you train in each area, your body gets stronger in that area. Note that the heart rate (eg: intensity) determines what you're training, and not the specific exercise.