Test booster

[Harlanspower]

Just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on test boosters. A product like Gaspari's Novedex? Goed, Bad, Pointless??
Thanks

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

...


How old are you? What are your goals? The general consensus is that most are garbage, save for a small handful... and even then... they're nothing like the real thing.

[Harlanspower]

...


How old are you? What are your goals? The general consensus is that most are garbage, save for a small handful... and even then... they're nothing like the real thing.

36 YRS OLD. Powerlifting goals in the big 3. Just want to be as strong as I can be in the legal world.

[samadhi_smiles]

What is the drug and what is the mechanism of action?

You can boost test by stimulating LH, which is the hormone responsible for triggering to the testicles the production of semen. Increasing LH will increase the size of the testes (and volume of ejaculate). In this process, testosterone will be increased.

There is a negative feedback though. If you increase LH exogenously then endogenous LH will drop off and you will normalize (within 2-3 weeks or so depending on dosage level). Trib will do this and also HCG will do this.

You can also increase testosterone by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme. This enzyme is responsible for converting testosterone to estrogen. This results in higher levels of free testosterone (to bind to receptors) and a lowered level of estrogen. This can become dangerous depending on the strength of the drug (its ability to block the enzyme) and the dosage used. Very low levels of estrogen can actually be very counterproductive to your health and muscle-building (not to mention sexual problems, and joint issues). Some estrogen is needed for muscle-building. These drugs are called 'AIs'.

You can also boost testosterone of course by tagging your glutes (or whatever large muscle) with a shot full of oil with testosterone ester dissolved within. This creates what bodybuilders call a 'depot' and the testosterone is released slowly over the course of time. This will completely shut down your natural supply of testosterone almost regardless of the dosage used. Normal bodybuilding dosages are 400-600mg every week. Not all esters are created equally, some have shorter half-lifes than others and all of them weigh different amounts. for instance, 500mg of test prop does not equal 500mg of test cypionate (and the half-lives are QUITE different requiring every day shots with the former and every week shots with the latter). Testosterone therapy should not be extended longer than 12-14 weeks if the steroid user wants to enjoy a quick and clean recovery.

[Tom Mutaffis]

What is the drug and what is the mechanism of action?

You can boost test by stimulating LH, which is the hormone responsible for triggering to the testicles the production of semen. Increasing LH will increase the size of the testes (and volume of ejaculate). In this process, testosterone will be increased.

There is a negative feedback though. If you increase LH exogenously then endogenous LH will drop off and you will normalize (within 2-3 weeks or so depending on dosage level). Trib will do this and also HCG will do this.

You can also increase testosterone by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme. This enzyme is responsible for converting testosterone to estrogen. This results in higher levels of free testosterone (to bind to receptors) and a lowered level of estrogen. This can become dangerous depending on the strength of the drug (its ability to block the enzyme) and the dosage used. Very low levels of estrogen can actually be very counterproductive to your health and muscle-building (not to mention sexual problems, and joint issues). Some estrogen is needed for muscle-building. These drugs are called 'AIs'.

You can also boost testosterone of course by tagging your glutes (or whatever large muscle) with a shot full of oil with testosterone ester dissolved within. This creates what bodybuilders call a 'depot' and the testosterone is released slowly over the course of time. This will completely shut down your natural supply of testosterone almost regardless of the dosage used. Normal bodybuilding dosages are 400-600mg every week. Not all esters are created equally, some have shorter half-lifes than others and all of them weigh different amounts. for instance, 500mg of test prop does not equal 500mg of test cypionate (and the half-lives are QUITE different requiring every day shots with the former and every week shots with the latter). Testosterone therapy should not be extended longer than 12-14 weeks if the steroid user wants to enjoy a quick and clean recovery.

He said "legal world". Although HRT would be a legal alternative for someone with low testosterone, that should be looked at as a last resort (and could cause someone to fail drug tests in a tested federation).

Using OTC AI's is one option, but most are not very effective. Some people have had success with a product called AIFM by Anafit.

Tribulus products may provide some benefit for an individual with lower testosterone, along with ZMA (more known for sleep benefits).

Overall your money would be better spend on creatine / protein as the return on investment with "testosterone boosters" is generally poor unless you have a specific medical condition.

[samadhi_smiles]

Just trying to give him the rundown of the mechanics behind these drugs. Its the height of stupidity to take a drug if you can't define the mechanics of how its working in your body.

[adamantiumxl]

Just trying to give him the rundown of the mechanics behind these drugs. Its the height of stupidity to take a drug if you can't define the mechanics of how its working in your body.

tribulus is worthless. I am not sure what mechanics you think it has, but there are several studies that show it does nothing to raise testosterone or LH,

[samadhi_smiles]

I love when people cite studies without citing them! :D

[Tom Mutaffis]

From Wikipedia:

Animal studies in rats, rabbits and primates have demonstrated that administration of Tribulus terrestris extract can produce statistically significant increases in levels of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone,[7] and produces effects suggestive of aphrodisiac activity.[8] On the other hand, one recent study found that T. terrestris caused no increase in testosterone or LH in young men,[9] and another found that a commercial supplement containing androstenedione and herbal extracts, including T. terrestris, was no more effective at raising testosterone levels than androstenedione alone.[10]

The active chemical in T. terrestris is likely to be protodioscin (PTN),[11] a cousin to DHEA.


7. ^ Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP (Jan 2008). "The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction—an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat". Phytomedicine 15 (1-2): 44–54. doi:10.1016/j.phymed.2007.11.011. PMID 18068966.
8. ^ Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN (Aug 2002). "Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats". Life Sci. 71 (12): 1385–96. doi:10.1016/S0024-3205(02)01858-1. PMID 12127159. http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0024320502018581.
9. ^ Neychev VK, Mitev VI (Oct 2005). "The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men". J Ethnopharmacol 101 (1-3): 319–23. doi:10.1016/j.jep.2005.05.017. PMID 15994038.
10. ^ Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, et al. (Sep 2000). "Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men". Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 10 (3): 340–59. PMID 10997957.
11. ^ Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP, Prasad RN (2003). "Sexual effects of puncturevine (Tribulus terrestris) extract (protodioscin): an evaluation using a rat model". Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine 9 (2): 257–65. doi:10.1089/10755530360623374.


Based on this it does not look like anything conclusive has been determined since these studies were not done with the criteria that we are looking at. One is a study using animals and the other is a product that is a mix of prohormones and tribulus.

[samadhi_smiles]

cool good stuff. I can only give you anecdotal evidence. When I took trib in high doses (2+ grams 2x ED) I noticed a distinct effect on my balls (they got bigger). Exactly like the effect of dosing 250IU of HCG (which is known to stimulate LH). Now, this is far from conclusive and very anecdotal...but I think there is some merit to trib. I do believe however that the supplementation of a drug that stimulates LH should be used very sparingly...going on it every day for weeks on end is not going to do any good, because your own body will stop producing so much LH itself...test levels will normalize back to what they were for you before supplementing with trib.

I do think that a user could take trib in order to time their test spikes for a meet or an event or something (you'd have to become familiar with it and then use it like every day for 3-4 days before the meet in high doses (5-6 grams a day). You'd almost surely experience a testosterone spike and be AMPED up for your meet.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

How long have you been training?

[Harlanspower]

How long have you been training?

Training with the intent of powerlifting probably 10 years. That being said I have taken many extended breaks during that time, and have only done one official meet. I had shoulder surgery last summer so I have only been training hard again since this February.

[Skalami]

supposedly theirs a new tribulus..alatus. Well its not new but maybe wasnt well known. Its available in one product caled T-bol and has been patented.

There are a few natural things that were promising;

6-oxo, ecdysterone, arachidonic acid, and a few other things ive seen various reviews on. Gaspari tried combing all these into Halodrol but i think the quantities are too small to really have an effect.

You might want to try an energy booster to juice you up pre-workout. You can lift more and longer and burn yourself out more...just remember to eat better to compensate. If you look you can find ephedra containing stuff and taken responsibly its very effective (imo)

Or try l-arginine, not the over hyped NO stuff but just straight l-arginine its an amino sold like any cheap vitamin in a vitamin store or pharamacy. Its cheap $5-10 for a bottle. Try take a gram or two pre-workout and see what it does for you.

Also i take a little apple juice with protein powder mixed in and down that immediatly after working out that might help it did for me vs. when i wasnt doing it.

[macro]

tribulus has libido and possible erectile effects. two studies in young males, one done in bulgaria (the "home" of tribulus- tribestan), showed no affect on LH or testosterone). tribulus MAY have some effect on prolactin, see "sheep staggers study", which might benefit some men and older men. However, its dopaminergic action is not well researched and in cases of sheep, neuro and cardio toxic.

[macro]

6-oxo, ecdysterone, arachidonic acid, and a few other things ive seen various reviews on. Gaspari tried combing all these into Halodrol but i think the quantities are too small to really have an effect.




high level E metabolite conversion, as well as highly variant uptake between doses and inconsistent plasma levels

ecdysterone is completely worthless, russian studies were a cover for thier anabolic steroids program.

american diet is replete with AA, and taking it as a supplement is for most people just going to increase inflammation. It can also aggravate gynecomastia, Pge2 synthesis.

[PowerBuilder]

Just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on test boosters. A product like Gaspari's Novedex? Goed, Bad, Pointless??
Thanks

The only good ones, like Jungle Wars, contain something that doesn't "boost testosterone". In the case of JW it's ADED which is basically a designer steroid.

Other things like hyperdrol contain a precursor to bromotestosterone making them prohormones.

All things like that are a no no if you don't want to use steroids and if you don't mind then get the cheap real stuff instead.

If you decide to use any of the things above you should consider including Novedex though. ;)

[Berto]

Just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on test boosters. A product like Gaspari's Novedex? Goed, Bad, Pointless??
Thanks

Definitely not my area of expertise, but I'm pretty sure Novedex is more of an "estrogen inhibitor" than a true test booster.

I'm more into eating craploads of meat, fish, veggies, protein, and creatine myself.

[PWR]

A couple of friends take something called "E-Pol" and I can say that it works. I dont know how long it will be on the market but my friend can bench around 390 or so and when he is on it he can hit 405 for a double and he actually hit 430 one day. But then after its gone and he levels back out he seems to go right back where he was. That may be his own fault though.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

A couple of friends take something called "E-Pol" and I can say that it works. I dont know how long it will be on the market but my friend can bench around 390 or so and when he is on it he can hit 405 for a double and he actually hit 430 one day. But then after its gone and he levels back out he seems to go right back where he was. That may be his own fault though.
His bench was not because of E-Drol... which looks the same as Superdrol.

And why does everyone use the bench press as the de facto example of strength? Does your buddy squat or deadlift?

[lonesXedge]

I still say we need a "pro hormones/test booster/legal steroids" stickie!

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

I still say we need a "pro hormones/test booster/legal steroids" stickie!
I agree... that would solve a lot of headaches.

[lonesXedge]

I agree... that would solve a lot of headaches.

Tom was going to talk to some members about it, I surely would not want to write it, as I'm not as educated on the subject as a lot of you are. If I was, I'd gladly write it though!!!

[Skalami]

it would be very hard and require multiple knowledgable peoples input, the hardest part would be unbias info or trying hard to make sure the information isnt presented in an unbias way. The stuff is scary when you start thinking these companies are smaller companies trying to make as much profit as possible getting the stuff the cheapest way possible and cutting/doing whatever they can to make each investment dollar get more return.

[lonesXedge]

it would be very hard and require multiple knowledgable peoples input, the hardest part would be unbias info or trying hard to make sure the information isnt presented in an unbias way. The stuff is scary when you start thinking these companies are smaller companies trying to make as much profit as possible getting the stuff the cheapest way possible and cutting/doing whatever they can to make each investment dollar get more return.

For the most part it would be stating pro hormones are not worth it.

[Skalami]

i think the fact that most of the prohormone companies are small and only put out prohormones speaks very loudly for not using them.

[PWR]

His bench was not because of E-Drol... which looks the same as Superdrol.

And why does everyone use the bench press as the de facto example of strength? Does your buddy squat or deadlift?
Its not e-drol its e-pol
http://proflexsports.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PRL2
Trust me, his bench did go up while on it and his bench dropped right back down after he came off and it got out of his system. He has been lifting for years with basically the same routine. They do back on mondays, chest on tuesdays and shoulders on thurdays. He doesnt do legs because of knee surgery nor does he deadlift. He doesnt really take supplements but tried this because someone told him about it. He is a pretty big guy and does have a decent bench. And the reason Im say his bench because we always check with each other to see where we stand. My deadlifts and squats dont mean much to them because they dont do them but we have friendly competitiveness about our bench.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Its not e-drol its e-pol
Oh sorry... what an epic mistake.

[PWR]

Oh sorry... what an epic mistake.

No need to be a smart ass, just trying to give the OP a review of something I saw first hand work for a friend.

[starfox]

I could write a PH sticky if you guys wanted.