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thebirdman
05-30-2009, 07:40 PM
Hey guys, haven't been on in forever and usually I stick to supplements, but this diet is amazing.
If you know anything about anything, you'll have heard of the Keto Diet.

If you want to lose weight, it's perfect (give or take).

I personally am putting on muscle pounds and gaining with it. All I do is follow the diet and eat a LOT, and after each workout, drink an 8 oz. gatorade or applejuice with creatine, and 10 mins later, protein shake. restore glycogen and then feed it the protein it wants.

I also have a mass gaining workout that is top 3 three-day right now on a lot of bodybuilding websites. I'll post it if anyone is interested. look into keto, and tweak it to fit urself. 50 MAX carbs a day on that, i do less than 30 easy.

ArjunDhir
05-30-2009, 09:32 PM
No harm is posting the ''mass gaining workout'' you speak of.

I'm interested to say the least.

thebirdman
05-30-2009, 10:42 PM
Day 1 - Chest, Triceps, Delts:

* 3 x 10 Bench press
* 3 x 10 Close-grip bench press
* 3 x 10 Incline bench press
* 3 x 8 Dumbbell flyes
* 3 x 8 Skull crushers
* 3 x 10 Tricep extensions
* 3 x 15 Front dumbbell raise
* 3 x 15 Side dumbbell raise.

Day 3 - Biceps, Back, Traps, Forearms:

* 3 x 10 Barbell curls (try wide and close grips too)
* 3 x 10 Concentration curls
* 3 sets of pullups to failure (if you can do them)
* 3 x 10 Lat pulls
* 3 x 10 Bent-over Rows
* 3 x 10 Wrist curls
* 3 x 10 Barbell shrugs
* 3 x 10 Calf raise machine shrugs

Day 3 - Quads, Glutes, Hamstrings & Calves:

* 3 x 10 Squats
* 3 x 10 Barbell deadlifts
* 3 x 10 Leg press
* 3 x 10 Leg extensions
* 3 x 10 Calf raises
* 3 x 10 Barbell lunges
* 3 sets Farmer's walk


I was going to do the Arnold Workout but then I realized .. no. So I settled on this, seems good so far, the leg day especially kills you.

joey54
05-31-2009, 06:58 AM
you are doing this workout on less than 50 gms of carbs each day? How often do you refeed? What weights are you using in you exercises and what does your progression look like?

cphafner
05-31-2009, 08:49 AM
I have a tough time believing you are putting on muscle and weight using a keto diet. Like Joey asked, are you refeeding? I could see it if you are refeeding.

mivpl
05-31-2009, 11:23 AM
*1) Burn more calories then you're consuming everyday and measure your results using the following formula: Calories Consumed minus Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) minus Physical Activity minus the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF). A website that explains this formula in more detail and will help you determine how many calories you need to reach or maintain a certain weight is at

Get a diet and fitness calculator that you can put on your computer or cell phone. This will allow you to easily calculate the above formula, set goals, log your daily calorie consumption, and register your physical activities.

*2) Eat natural and organic foods found on earth versus something created by a corporation to make money. Eat meals in small portions throughout the day and take a good multi-vitamin supplement.

Avoid “High Glycemic Load Carbs” (sugar, pastries, desserts, refined starches such as breads, pasta, refined grains like white rice; high starch vegetables such as potatoes) and drink lots of water. Read this article for more information on high GL Carbs:

dropshot001
05-31-2009, 12:21 PM
*
*2) Eat natural and organic foods found on earth versus something created by a corporation to make money. Eat meals in small portions throughout the day and take a good multi-vitamin supplement.

Avoid “High Glycemic Load Carbs” (sugar, pastries, desserts, refined starches such as breads, pasta, refined grains like white rice; high starch vegetables such as potatoes) and drink lots of water. Read this article for more information on high GL Carbs:

first, the term "natural" is not regulated so it can be thrown around very loosely. also, why eat organic, why not just eat typical foods? organic isn't anything special other than being very expensive. i mean, if an organic farm is surrounded on all sides by conventional farms, there's boudn to be chemicals that go onto/into the plants in the organic farm. in addition, many chemicals get washed off completely or come off the foods with the passage of time.

i'd say just buy basic foods such as ground beef/steak, eggs, turkey, if you have more money, fish. the multi is a good idea.

as for no high GI carb loads, search skip loading and see what you find out about it. he's shown that the loads definitely help people get leaner.

03mach421
06-01-2009, 12:35 AM
no deadlift? thats a pretty high volume workout...

Mercuryblade
06-01-2009, 01:49 AM
*1) Burn more calories then you're consuming everyday and measure your results using the following formula: Calories Consumed minus Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) minus Physical Activity minus the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF). A website that explains this formula in more detail and will help you determine how many calories you need to reach or maintain a certain weight is at

Get a diet and fitness calculator that you can put on your computer or cell phone. This will allow you to easily calculate the above formula, set goals, log your daily calorie consumption, and register your physical activities.

*2) Eat natural and organic foods found on earth versus something created by a corporation to make money. Eat meals in small portions throughout the day and take a good multi-vitamin supplement.

Avoid “High Glycemic Load Carbs” (sugar, pastries, desserts, refined starches such as breads, pasta, refined grains like white rice; high starch vegetables such as potatoes) and drink lots of water. Read this article for more information on high GL Carbs:

I wasn't aware that organic farms weren't out to make money...

Also, pasta isn't considered a high GI food.

Mercuryblade
06-01-2009, 01:51 AM
Day 1 - Chest, Triceps, Delts:

* 3 x 10 Bench press
* 3 x 10 Close-grip bench press
* 3 x 10 Incline bench press
* 3 x 8 Dumbbell flyes
* 3 x 8 Skull crushers
* 3 x 10 Tricep extensions
* 3 x 15 Front dumbbell raise
* 3 x 15 Side dumbbell raise.

Day 3 - Biceps, Back, Traps, Forearms:

* 3 x 10 Barbell curls (try wide and close grips too)
* 3 x 10 Concentration curls
* 3 sets of pullups to failure (if you can do them)
* 3 x 10 Lat pulls
* 3 x 10 Bent-over Rows
* 3 x 10 Wrist curls
* 3 x 10 Barbell shrugs
* 3 x 10 Calf raise machine shrugs

Day 3 - Quads, Glutes, Hamstrings & Calves:

* 3 x 10 Squats
* 3 x 10 Barbell deadlifts
* 3 x 10 Leg press
* 3 x 10 Leg extensions
* 3 x 10 Calf raises
* 3 x 10 Barbell lunges
* 3 sets Farmer's walk


I was going to do the Arnold Workout but then I realized .. no. So I settled on this, seems good so far, the leg day especially kills you.

Way too much volume.

90 reps of thigh/butt work followed by 3 sets of farmer's walk is overkill.

I do 2 sets of squats (3 if you count the warm up) and then later in the workout 2 sets of leg press. I can barely walk up stairs after that.

thebirdman
06-01-2009, 11:52 AM
Sorry, there is a deadlift in there that was 3x8 that i changed to 5x5 and i also changed the squats to 5x5. I refeed every week for about 24-30 hours, very slow-burning carbs and at VERY high rates. so far, i have eaten about 200g of breads and wheats alone, besides the chicken and apple i had, and ive only been up since 9 AM. (1:00 or so now).

It is high volume, but train like a champ and you will see results. Most exercises were 2 x 8 or 2x10 or 2x12 .. you get it, but I changed it to 3 and the first is usually a buffer/warm up to get the blood flowing.

Why is it that people think keto is to only lose weight? What ever happened to the old school concept that if you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight lol Nothing has changed in our anatomy to suggest otherwise.

Look at the arnold workout and tell me that is not WAY too stacked, but then look at him. Stacking a workout is never a bad thing.

More opinions after the update, please :)

thebirdman
06-01-2009, 11:54 AM
you are doing this workout on less than 50 gms of carbs each day? How often do you refeed? What weights are you using in you exercises and what does your progression look like?



You have no idea. My gains have been immediate and blatant. Yes, I refeed. Everyone refeeds, I have never seen anyone go more than 2 weeks without it. Its odd to see and extremely pointless not to.

I am not going to go over each weight I do sorry but if you have a certain few i will answer them..

Mercuryblade
06-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Look at the arnold workout and tell me that is not WAY too stacked, but then look at him. Stacking a workout is never a bad thing.

More opinions after the update, please :)

Arnold was a genetic freak, but that's another topic all together.
Nowhere did I say that you wouldn't see results with that much volume, but I said it was overkill, as in, unnecessary.

joey54
06-01-2009, 03:53 PM
You have no idea. My gains have been immediate and blatant. Yes, I refeed. Everyone refeeds, I have never seen anyone go more than 2 weeks without it. Its odd to see and extremely pointless not to.

I am not going to go over each weight I do sorry but if you have a certain few i will answer them..

What do you squat, what do you bench, and what do you deadlift? What did you use for your first workout on this program of each exercise, how often have you been following this program, and how much weight have you gained? I like your diet ideas with the refeeds, but I hate the workout.

KoSh
06-01-2009, 04:17 PM
The Keto is designed to lose weight... If you're taking in more calories than burning, it's not really the keto diet anymore... :)

VikingWarlord
06-01-2009, 09:03 PM
The Keto is designed to lose weight... If you're taking in more calories than burning, it's not really the keto diet anymore... :)

This.

Auburn
06-01-2009, 09:12 PM
The ketogenic diet is designed to induce ketosis. It just happens that most people eat less while in ketosis that it's used for weight loss purposes.

thebirdman
06-02-2009, 06:30 AM
The Keto is designed to lose weight... If you're taking in more calories than burning, it's not really the keto diet anymore... :)


It's not designed to lose weight at all lol the spartan diet is the same thing without refeeding and those spartans were f***ing massive :outnumber:

besides the diet, why does everyone hate the workout? simply too much per day?

VikingWarlord
06-02-2009, 07:51 AM
It's not designed to lose weight at all lol the spartan diet is the same thing without refeeding and those spartans were f***ing massive :outnumber:

No, no they weren't. They were lean and strong. They were absolutely not massive. No warrior culture aimed for size, it was always strength and speed. Being heavier often meant being slower and less mobile as well as more difficult to maintain. That would be why they didn't wear any armor aside from greaves, bracers, and a helmet.

Please take some time to read a little something about nutritional anthropology.

Also, any variation of a ketogenic diet is designed for fat loss. It's very hard to induce ketosis if your caloric intake is higher than maintenance. You'll just burn the extra protein instead.

Auburn
06-02-2009, 09:00 AM
It's quite easy to induce ketosis without weight loss. A ketogenic diet at maintenance Calories isn't high-protein, it's very high fat, fairly low in protein and almost non-existent carbohydrates. It's been used around the world to reduce symptoms of epilepsy and other ailments for a long time.

But still, going into ketosis and trying to gain lean tissue is fairly stupid.