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mcrain69
06-03-2009, 02:30 PM
I have read on this website and several others posts about gaining muscle while losing weight at the same time and there is always contradicting answers. I understand that if you are working on a caloric deficit that your body will breakdown fat for energy. It will also breakdown muscle. With that being said, I also understand that you build muscle by working out (AKA- tearing muscle fibers) and getting proper rest for the fibers to heal and thicken.

So here is my question: If you kept your calories above maintenance level on workout days, and below maintenance level on cardio days wouldn't a person have better success at losing fat and gaining muscle? Or am I just dreaming?

Marc123
06-03-2009, 02:38 PM
I have actually been doing the same as you today researching this a lot... This is the conclusion I came to you cannot lose weight and gain muscle unless you had a really bad diet consisting of little protein and not lifting very often and then you clean up your diet and started taking high level of proteins and hitting the gym.

But I dont believe anyone can get a correct answer on this question because everyones body reacts different to supplements lifting dieting so its a dead end question. Everyone has different genetics body types and levels of motivation.

bladelol
06-03-2009, 03:16 PM
you guys should check into carb cycling. That how Dave Tate lost most of weight. If you are going to diet down you do have to accept the fact that you will lose some muscle mass and strength. Depending on your diet, you should be able to maintain your current mass, if not all, if done correctly.

Skelator03
06-03-2009, 03:29 PM
your trying to cut lots of people cut and have no issues everyone will tell you something diff and as i have posted to the other 3 people asking this today check out TNT diet

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991017124/m/1431038013

search around here too everyone asks this question

samadhi_smiles
06-03-2009, 03:55 PM
imo if you're trying to get stronger then I wouldn't dip ever below maintenance.

mcrain69
06-03-2009, 05:57 PM
It just seems to me that if you give your body the extra nutrients it needs on the days it needs it you would in effect be feeding your muscles.

On days you are doing cardio you create a deficit and you would in effect be burning fat. I have no science to back this up, but it seems the most logical thing to me. I have done this for over 3 months, and have managed to continually get stronger and leaner, but I have somewhat plateaued recently.

VikingWarlord
06-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I have read on this website and several others posts about gaining muscle while losing weight at the same time and there is always contradicting answers. I understand that if you are working on a caloric deficit that your body will breakdown fat for energy. It will also breakdown muscle. With that being said, I also understand that you build muscle by working out (AKA- tearing muscle fibers) and getting proper rest for the fibers to heal and thicken.

So here is my question: If you kept your calories above maintenance level on workout days, and below maintenance level on cardio days wouldn't a person have better success at losing fat and gaining muscle? Or am I just dreaming?

No. It's cumulative. Changing things from day to day isn't going to have much of an impact unless you're in an overall deficit or surplus. The exception would be if you're trying to recomp and want to take (in most cases) years to achieve noticeable results.

People say it's not possible to do both just because the circumstances under which you can do both are so strict and specific (plus rely heavily on individual genetics/chemistry) that it's not usually worth the time. Unless you're juiced to the eyeballs, don't bother even thinking about it.

Also, you forgot the most important part of your muscle building equation...nutrition. If you're not eating well, your body doesn't have any material with which to rebuild.


I have actually been doing the same as you today researching this a lot... This is the conclusion I came to you cannot lose weight and gain muscle unless you had a really bad diet consisting of little protein and not lifting very often and then you clean up your diet and started taking high level of proteins and hitting the gym.

But I dont believe anyone can get a correct answer on this question because everyones body reacts different to supplements lifting dieting so its a dead end question. Everyone has different genetics body types and levels of motivation.

I think you're on track but this syntax is so broken I can't figure out exactly what you're saying.


your trying to cut lots of people cut and have no issues everyone will tell you something diff and as i have posted to the other 3 people asking this today check out TNT diet

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991017124/m/1431038013

search around here too everyone asks this question

Punctuation is your friend.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-03-2009, 07:09 PM
your trying to cut lots of people cut and have no issues everyone will tell you something diff and as i have posted to the other 3 people asking this today check out TNT diet

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991017124/m/1431038013

search around here too everyone asks this question
Stop posting.

samadhi_smiles
06-04-2009, 08:08 AM
It just seems to me that if you give your body the extra nutrients it needs on the days it needs it you would in effect be feeding your muscles.

On days you are doing cardio you create a deficit and you would in effect be burning fat. I have no science to back this up, but it seems the most logical thing to me. I have done this for over 3 months, and have managed to continually get stronger and leaner, but I have somewhat plateaued recently.
there is a flaw here. You are STILL recovering from your weight lifting on your 'cardio days'. Your muscles take a while to recover/grow depending on the intensity/volume you work them at. I know for me that it takes at least 72 hours until I'm ready to hit the same lift hard again, and I take in massive amounts of food and don't work a job and just rest and sit around fishing and hanging with friends (so my recovery is probably pretty fast cause of that).

I NEED my 'off days' for muscle recovery/feeding. Looking at it like its an 'off day' is doing yourself a disservice, imo, because you're not priveledging your recovery enough. You should be overfeeding yourself every day if you want to keep getting PRs (imo!).

Now, if you just want to maintain strength and don't care about PRs or whatever, then go ahead and cut on your 'off days' - but dont be surprised when your gains completely stop.

Holto
06-04-2009, 02:36 PM
there is a flaw here. You are STILL recovering from your weight lifting on your 'cardio days'.

DING!

In general, you can recomp effectively if you're a total newbie or have had a layoff. I nearly broke my A/C joint earlier this year and took 3 months off. Now I'm recomping effectively as I regain strength. Once I'm back to where I was I'll decide on a more focused regiment of either bulking or cutting.

Mercuryblade
06-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Stop posting.

skeletator's posts make my head hurt.

Skelator03
06-04-2009, 04:24 PM
Wow! I didn't know that my punctuation was such a major problem on a lifting forum. I hope this is sooooo much better for you guys. Seriously man can't find something else to complain about. That is WEAK! I do thank you for your posting in response to mine and your time.

(I hope you like the punctuation because you will never see from me again.) THANKS!

LuNa
06-04-2009, 05:53 PM
Wow! I didn't know that my punctuation was such a major problem on a lifting forum. I hope this is sooooo much better for you guys. Seriously man can't find something else to complain about. That is WEAK! I do thank you for your posting in response to mine and your time.

(I hope you like the punctuation because you will never see from me again.) THANKS!

:hello:

CrazyK
06-04-2009, 06:05 PM
The "losing weight/gaining muscle thing" comes down to luck through genetics and is more likely to occur in an untrained individual. All that you can do is keep protein high, diet modestly, lift heavy and hope for the best.

bass slayer
06-04-2009, 09:01 PM
Wow! I didn't know that my punctuation was such a major problem on a lifting forum. I hope this is sooooo much better for you guys. Seriously man can't find something else to complain about. That is WEAK! I do thank you for your posting in response to mine and your time.

(I hope you like the punctuation because you will never see from me again.) THANKS!

:confused:

bass slayer
06-04-2009, 09:01 PM
Wow! I didn't know that my punctuation was such a major problem on a lifting forum. I hope this is sooooo much better for you guys. Seriously man can't find something else to complain about. That is WEAK! I do thank you for your posting in response to mine and your time.

(I hope you like the punctuation because you will never see from me again.) THANKS!

Yeah its real cool not using punctuation. I think we should all not use punctuation and that way, nobody knows what anybody else is talking about. Dude seriously, its week not using punctuation and then throwing a temper tantrum when we cant read your post's

VikingWarlord
06-04-2009, 09:59 PM
Wow! I didn't know that my punctuation was such a major problem on a lifting forum. I hope this is sooooo much better for you guys. Seriously man can't find something else to complain about. That is WEAK! I do thank you for your posting in response to mine and your time.

(I hope you like the punctuation because you will never see from me again.) THANKS!

When your only method of communication is text, using the rules becomes more important in order to make sure that communication is clear. It also means your posts are going to be taken more seriously since you appear to actually care. If your posts are unreadable, they won't be read.

Think about what you're putting out there before you click that Submit Reply button.

jreed110
06-05-2009, 03:36 AM
If you think about it what you're suggesting is a constantly changing bulk/cut routine where you bulk on days you workout and cut on other days.

I imagine the success of this would heavily rely on how new you are to lifting and your routine. Someone just starting would probably build muscle quite well doing two full body workouts a week, bulking when they lift and then cutting the rest of the week. That would make sense to me but it's just guesswork.

Skalami
06-05-2009, 05:33 AM
I gotta put this in, i was able to make very fast gains while putting on no fat when my day was wakeup/workout/work for 8-10hours moving around heavy things/go home sleep no social life for a few months but i became like a tree trunk and i moved my bench up 100lbs in 3 months on no supplements but a post workout shake. Not to mention i had about 10cups of jet-fuel coffee throughout the day at work. i personally think its better for putting on muscle with no fat by keeping pretty active rather then reducing calories. But like now i dont work that job, i sit at a desk and its hard/impossible to re-create that environment.

Skelator03
06-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Def. understandable following the rules but no temper tantrum i just got "flamed" for not doing it when i was at work and im typing really fast to get something in its cool though i made my point you made yours so now we all know ;-) sorry to highjack the thread OP

VikingWarlord
06-08-2009, 11:54 AM
I gotta put this in, i was able to make very fast gains while putting on no fat when my day was wakeup/workout/work for 8-10hours moving around heavy things/go home sleep no social life for a few months but i became like a tree trunk and i moved my bench up 100lbs in 3 months on no supplements but a post workout shake. Not to mention i had about 10cups of jet-fuel coffee throughout the day at work. i personally think its better for putting on muscle with no fat by keeping pretty active rather then reducing calories. But like now i dont work that job, i sit at a desk and its hard/impossible to re-create that environment.

Having an active job = higher maintenance calorie level. You eat a smaller surplus (total intake - maintenance = total surplus). That's exactly what you were doing here. Not rocket science.

Skelator03
06-09-2009, 06:00 PM
Viking hit the nail on the head with that one!

Abe Froman
06-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Age old debate.

I guess it depends on whether or not the muscle you want to gain is in mass or not. If you want to get BIGGER at the same time as losing fat, that is hard to do (naturally of course, not hard to do with aas). But you can achieve lean muscle and even get stronger at the same time while still losing fat. The bottom line is that it can be done. Few years ago I dropped 20 pounds while I was certainly smaller, I was actually the strongest i ever been. The way I did it was pretty simple...low low low carbs, high high high protein. While the fat and some mass disappeared, the strength improved and muscle maintained.

Mathillas
06-14-2009, 01:17 AM
I tend to agree with the guys who say it's possible with novices. I had been out of the gym for 6 years. I blew up to 315 lbs. I don't even like mentioning my BF% It was gnarly. I got back into the gym. Got on SS and kept my calories slightly above my maintenance. I am down in the 270's now. My BF% is way lower now than it was before.

Consider though, I had a TON of fat to burn. I definately think that a chubby novice can lose fat and gain muscle, but someone around 15% BF would probably have to traditionally 'CUT'