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View Full Version : Heavily considering swapping my DE work for RE.



Clifford Gillmore
07-02-2009, 11:20 AM
Just for a 12 week or so cycle and then rotate DE work in for a 12 week cycle etc. etc. I've not actually gotten faster from doing DE work, and I'm starting to think I actually need more muscle on my frame to get anything out of it. Or I'm starting to think I should reset after each rep and make sure I'm doing the movement correctly (From Jim Wendler), instead of trying to blast through them.


So do you guys think this is right path to go? OR should I be looking heavily more at extra-workouts, I'm saying that because of my lifts being so low that I should be able to handle the extra workload. I'm up about 15lbs or so from a few months ago on this bulk (275goal from 220, currently 235ish before bloat).


Thanks in advance for your input guys, most of you have seen it all so I'm happy to take anything on board :)

JasonLift
07-02-2009, 11:33 AM
I switch from week to week.

On my DE week I do 9 or 10 sets of 3, doing either straight weight, chains, or bands.

Then on RE week I do 4 or 5 sets of 10 with close to the same weight.

On my ME day I hammer my triceps and on DE and RE I hit my chest a bit more (but still hit the triceps) and of course always rotator work before and after.

I personally have noticed my bench has dramatically improved by doing this, and by moving all my shoulder work to a separate day.

Lones Green
07-02-2009, 12:17 PM
You can do both. Do your speed work, then some do some repetition work with straight weight or even DB's. Thats what I do, you should be taking advantage of max effort work, dynamic effort work, AND repetition effort work.

As for resetting each rep, you could do that. I think that would probably be better than making them fast, but with really sloppy form.

Travis Bell
07-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Are we talking for squatting or benching?

Either way, the biggest mistake people make with DE work is not getting in repetition work with the right ascessory exercises.

Lones Green
07-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Are we talking for squatting or benching?

Either way, the biggest mistake people make with DE work is not getting in repetition work with the right ascessory exercises.

Good question, I just assumed it was benching

Travis Bell
07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Good question, I just assumed it was benching

Initially I did as well, but your statement still holds true.

If it's for squatting, the plyo sled (or leg press), hack squats, front squats, zercher squats etc. all work for ascessory work for reps.

If someone isn't getting faster with DE work, they normally are going too heavy

Lones Green
07-02-2009, 12:52 PM
Initially I did as well, but your statement still holds true.

If it's for squatting, the plyo sled (or leg press), hack squats, front squats, zercher squats etc. all work for ascessory work for reps.

If someone isn't getting faster with DE work, they normally are going too heavy

That makes sense, I think I read somewhere Lou said the RE effort comes into play with the assistance work

jbrin0tk
07-02-2009, 02:06 PM
I've read that, too, Lones. Great info in this thread from you and Travis, man.

Travis Bell
07-02-2009, 02:36 PM
That makes sense, I think I read somewhere Lou said the RE effort comes into play with the assistance work

Exactly.

LOL my mistake was posting that video of the RE stuff. Now a lot of people think that the only thing we do is RE work and no DE (not implying you do Risk, I'm speaking generally) which isn't quite true. We rotate the RE stuff in for squatting. never for DE work. We always do DE work for bench.

I've been using DE work on bench since I was barely able to bench 3 plates raw and I feel it has incredible transfer, you just have to do it right.

joey54
07-02-2009, 03:52 PM
Probably going too heavy.

Clifford Gillmore
07-02-2009, 06:45 PM
Thanks for your input everyone! I think Travis got it spot on with me not using the accessory movements correctly. But I'm still confused, a little.

I did fail to mention that I'm happy with my DE squat work, I'm progressing with both speed and power on box squats and DLs from the speed work. So Its mainly the bench I'm focusing on, as far as going to heavy I thought I was using LESS weight than required ie;

95 + minis, 110+2 chains, 135 straight weight with a bench max of a shirted 290 and current 230 RAW. They are all fast, but I've been thinking about sloppy form and resetting them.


On DE Bench day I'll do;

DE Bench 3 x 9, 3 grips. If speed is good I'll work up to heavier weight normally around 200+band/chain.
Heavy triceps, 2 exercises with 8-15 reps each - 6 sets total
Rows/Pull downs
Light shoulders (saving heavy milis for ME day)
Upperback 3-4 sets high reps (seated db cleans, face pulls etc.)

Travis, since you guys do DE all the time on bench I'll keep it - I must have more problems elsewhere!

barbell01
07-02-2009, 06:52 PM
your max raw is 230 and you are working up to 200+bands or chains??? i can't imagine your speed being very good with that type of percentage. i would stick to the 95# + minis and just work on explosive speed up and down. lock it out hard!

Travis Bell
07-02-2009, 07:52 PM
No, he's saying he works up to 95+ minis (when using bands) and 110+2 sets of chain when using chain weight. Two different cycles

Risk, what I think is missing is some DB bench for reps right after your DE sets. Do 4 sets of 12 reps with whatever DB's feel necessary that day and I think you'll see some progress with your bench

barbell01
07-02-2009, 08:09 PM
DE Bench 3 x 9, 3 grips. If speed is good I'll work up to heavier weight normally around 200+band/chain.


idk, but i do agree with the d-bell presses

HP666
07-02-2009, 08:16 PM
Risk, what I think is missing is some DB bench for reps right after your DE sets. Do 4 sets of 12 reps with whatever DB's feel necessary that day and I think you'll see some progress with your bench

I think that's right on the money. Travis is the guy to listen to on this. I think what happens is people get the whole DE OR RE and feel they have to stick with a set plan all the time. Like Travis said, do your speed work with bands/chains, etc for the bench, and then do accessory work for reps. Squatting is a great example, say it's your DE day and you squat with chains, then you plan on doing Hack Squats, Band curls, and reverse hypers; well, you're not really gonna do Hack Squats for speed, are you? It's all about the reps to build strength where you need it. I think that's a mistake people make with Westside thinking that there is a certain guideline that MUST be followed stringently, which really isn't the case. Of course there is a methodology and way to do things but it's more about finding your weaknesses and fixing them.

Beefcaker
07-04-2009, 12:38 AM
No, he's saying he works up to 95+ minis (when using bands) and 110+2 sets of chain when using chain weight. Two different cyclesHe actually DID say that he occasionally works up to 200lbs+bands/chains on some DE days...:moon:

Travis Bell
07-04-2009, 04:40 AM
Ah, I missed that.

Right there is your problem Risk, that is far too heavy

Clifford Gillmore
07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Thanks again for your input guys, I'm having a 20/20 hindsight moment right now. Doing flat DB benching sounds like a sound idea for sure, I'll see what happens in a the next cycle!