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Ryan Hale
07-14-2009, 02:42 PM
Yesterday I spent the day with a father daughter who were very invovled with the fitness world.
The father has his CSCS,the daughter has a degree in kinesiology,and is a CPT.

I asked many questions,and of course they both agreed on the same things.

They both hate deadlifts.Avoid them at all cost.
Squats are o.k.,but they prefer a smiths machine for squats.I asked the reason for this.I was told it teaches better form and your axis of rotation is correct when using a smiths machine.I've stepped into a smiths machine a couple times in my whole life,and man do squats feel so wrong in them.
The father also added that the leg press is a excellent lower body exercise,infact better than free weight squats.
We also went over the free weight vs machine debate.

Both highly eduacated,both serve in the fitness industry,both set up programs for people and athletes,but I really do not agree with thier thoughts.

Don't get me wrong,they were both very nice and great people.

Ryan Hale

sobrinoc
07-14-2009, 02:54 PM
I don't see why you should be surprised...

Everyone knows getting a certification is pretty easy and in the fitness industry, being skinny / having abs is more important than your client's results. Christian Thibideau wrote an article about it on t-nation.com... once he cut off all the fat and became a Vin Diesel look alike his PT business boomed. I am also sure a lot of us have faced the same thing in a similar fashion. For example, am I ripped? No. But since training for powerlifting I have developed a noticeable muscularity and my strength has gone up significantly. Yet when my friends ask me anything about weight training they are skeptical since I still got a belly. Oh well, **** 'em. In the end, I wouldn't even blame PT's, the clientele itself sucks.

Detard
07-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Some people are ****ing morons.

This is an obvious example of someone who hasn't spent time under the bar. Were either of them impressive? (physique, or strength wise?). What were their accomplishments? If you speak to people that have been around the block, so to speak, you will get a much more desirable response because of the fact they know what works as opposed to what doesnt.

SELK
07-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Its to bad what is taught in courses about weight training is usually very out of date or in many cases just wrong. Ive taken several courses and seminars in and out of university and while there is always things you can take away, there is often some pretty misleading information.

If you look at the compressive forces on the spine during a leg press they can easily exceed that of a squat, that and the fact that in many cases you will see the lumbar region of the back actually rounding in a leg press leads to a movement which is not as safe as many claim.

I don't know what an axis of rotation is, but working with a set bar path is not ideal for various reasons as the case with the smith machine squat. Better form is simply not true on a smith machine, the correct bar path of a squat is not going to be a perfectly straight line. Forces on the knee when doing a typical smith machine squat (ie feel well out in front of you) can greatly exceed a regular barbell squat.

All a certification/degree proves is that you can study and pass a test with the answers that an instructor believes is true. People like you mentioned don't mean bad, they just have gotten taught poor information throughout their courses and its very hard to convince someone different things after they have been taught, and certified, with missinformation.

MarcusWild
07-14-2009, 03:20 PM
The fitness industry isn't about producing strong and capable athletes. It's mostly about helping middle-aged divorced people lose some weight so they can start dating again. I'm serious, those people are the #1 buyers of personal training. Most of them can't even do a body weight squat.

Detard
07-14-2009, 03:35 PM
If I remember correctly, the forward torque put on the knees by the smith machine makes it a ton more dangerous than free squats. It is basically trying to force the femur forward, while the tibia and fibula are staying somewhat perpendicular, putting excess strain on the knee ligaments?

Someone correct me if i'm wrong

Ryano
07-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Simple answer. Do you outlift them in Squat, bench, & dead? Powerlifting is about hitting the BIG #. They are trained for fitness (ie. Jane Fonda B*llsh%T).

jthomas
07-14-2009, 08:18 PM
I have been a fairly successful trainer where I work and every single one of my clients deadlift and every single client squats. None of them ever have or never will squat in a smith machine either. Having certifications, like I do, or a degree and certs like my wife, means absolutely nothing. If their clients are not squatting and DLing they are wasting their money. Squats are the one exercise that stimulates the most muscle fibers in your body.

BigCorey75
07-14-2009, 09:47 PM
The fitness industry isn't about producing strong and capable athletes. It's mostly about helping middle-aged divorced people lose some weight so they can start dating again. I'm serious, those people are the #1 buyers of personal training. Most of them can't even do a body weight squat.

very true, this is roughly over half of my client base

Sensei
07-15-2009, 10:01 AM
Nothing to understand - they don't get it and probably never will.

bluelew
07-15-2009, 11:01 AM
As I read somewhere-

"There are lots of skinny scientists/doctors all over the gym that know exactly how muscles work and how to work out"

Hazerboy
07-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Squats are o.k.,but they prefer a smiths machine for squats.I asked the reason for this.I was told it teaches better form and your axis of rotation is correct when using a smiths machine.


Actually, your axis of rotation is exactly WRONG on a smith machine, in a sense that it is completely unnatural. There isn't enough forward lean, and the barbell doesn't rotate forward at all - it stays in the plane. Nothing in normal movement does this - you never push or pull anything on a guided track.

A correct axis of rotation is one that is safer on your joints, and one that you would mimic what is possible IRL. Unless you have your back against a wall, you cannot squat like you can in a smith.

But we already knew this - just use it as fodder for next time.

brihead301
07-15-2009, 01:12 PM
Many people are ignorant about this stuff. What can ya do though, ya know?

JasonLift
07-15-2009, 06:26 PM
The gym I train at is owned by a guy who squats at westside and its funny because all the personal training clients are dragging sleds, doing board presses, etc. Nothing like you'd see in a typical commercial gym.

It works though, as a lot of the people who would normally just want to "get ripped" are getting in great shape and getting very strong. And they seem to stick with it. It takes a long time to see real changes in your body for recomposition but you can notice strength gains right away keeping you motivated.