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View Full Version : Big News for the APF! Adding Single Ply



mastermonster
07-15-2009, 04:59 PM
Garry Frank just announced that the APF will add a single ply division at the APF Louisiana on September 12th in Baton Rouge, La. at the Holiday Inn. The same location as the Masters Nationals was held. Great venue! I'm excited about this addition. I'm going to lift in it myself at this meet! I'll see everybody in Louisiana at this Landmark event! Entry info soon at www.worldpowerliftingcongress.com

MarcusWild
07-15-2009, 05:10 PM
Is APF nationally adding the division or just this one meet?

mastermonster
07-15-2009, 05:18 PM
Is APF nationally adding the division or just this one meet?

I'm not clear on that yet though I think so. Garry called me earlier and asked if I'd get the word out on it for this meet. He had to hurry and go and he said he'd call me tomarrow and talk longer and in more detail about it. As I learn more I'll post back with more info. Thanks for asking Marcus!

Brian C
07-15-2009, 05:51 PM
Put it in his ear to make it national. A whole bunch of us would be appreciative ;)

vdizenzo
07-15-2009, 07:44 PM
Great, another way to split us up further. We can have twenty different divisions with fifty feds. Now everyone can be a world record holder. I like Gary, but I don't like this.

Sensei
07-15-2009, 07:55 PM
I agree w. Vincent - too many divisions/categories already. Adding single-ply just means thinning them out even more - you'd have to have over a 100 participants for a competition to have depth in all divisions.

Jason198
07-15-2009, 08:56 PM
Did they do this because the SPF Recently added single Ply?

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
07-16-2009, 06:00 AM
I think they are doing this to stay competitive like other federations. Also, several apf card holders probably requested it too. So, a demand for single-ply kept coming up and apf decided to supply it. Just my 2 cents.

Travis Bell
07-16-2009, 06:13 AM
Comes across as an attempt to attract more people from the USPF

Meh, I don't really care. One more division, at least its a legit division. It's not like 35yo men w/ 35% white hair lifetime drugfree or whatever like some other feds.

It would be a bigger deal if it were a new federation, but I don't really see this as splitting up people even further. It may in fact unify things a bit more. I see the unity as people being under one federation, not necessairly all under the same equipment rules.

There really isn't much in the way of non tested single ply (outside the USPF) so it'll be interesting to see how this progresses

vdizenzo
07-16-2009, 08:30 AM
Awards ceremonies at meets just got that much longer. I hear even spotters and loaders get to leave with a trophy now.

stik
07-16-2009, 09:15 AM
Just talked with Mr. Frank. He says that the meet will be at the Holiday Inn, Airline Drive, Baton Rouge. He also said that he will soon post the entry form at the link below.

Looking forward to it!

http://www.worldpowerliftingcongress.com/upcomingmeets.htm

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
07-16-2009, 09:41 AM
If you look at all the federations that are single-ply or offer single-ply division: NASA, USAPL, IPF, NAPF, WPF, AAU, USPF, WNPF, SPF,etc. Then, APF is probably trying to get a piece of the single-ply powerlifting market and increase their membership and profit margin. From a business point of view, it is a good ideal.

vdizenzo
07-16-2009, 11:32 AM
If you look at all the federations that are single-ply or offer single-ply division: NASA, USAPL, IPF, NAPF, WPF, AAU, USPF, WNPF, SPF,etc. Then, APF is probably trying to get a piece of the single-ply powerlifting market and increase their membership and profit margin. From a business point of view, it is a good ideal.

From a business point of view we as lifters are all morons. We have fifty feds all offering the same crap. Most of us buy a couple of cards a year to lift locally. This sport is really beginning to suck. I wish I could turn back the clock 15 years. I would have taken up strongman. They don't need twenty feds and thirty divisions to feel good about themselves. What a freakin' joke!

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
07-16-2009, 01:13 PM
From a business point of view we as lifters are all morons. We have fifty feds all offering the same crap. Most of us buy a couple of cards a year to lift locally. This sport is really beginning to suck. I wish I could turn back the clock 15 years. I would have taken up strongman. They don't need twenty feds and thirty divisions to feel good about themselves. What a freakin' joke!

I agree 100% that there are too many feds! I started 15 years ago competing in NASA & USAPL. Now, those are only the two feds I enjoy competing in.

I think that 50+ federations will continue to survive because they offer something to the powerlifting community and they are always changing to be competitive. It's like having 50 different retail stores or churches in the same city. It would be great to have less than 5 pl federations, but it won't happen. More federations are going to continue to be created as long as the demand is there. It seems like every 1 to 2 years, a new federation pops up.

Another example is that there was only one main forum back in 1997. Now, there are probably almost 100 different forums.

vdizenzo
07-16-2009, 02:08 PM
It won't happen because we let ourselves get screwed. It's not like this in strongman. Too many fools lining the pockets of others. That's why people just stand around and say it's ok. This is just how it is. Pathetic.

Travis Bell
07-16-2009, 02:17 PM
I'm probably one of those guys I guess lol.

I just never approach my lifting as an attempt to make a living.

I love benching. I get to bench. I'm satisfied.

I hear what you are saying about nationals and all, I never really worried at all about that stuff. Not meaning that in an insult to people who do, I just don't care. I have boxes and boxes of trophies and I just keep them stuffed back in a closet. I really outta just throw them out. The meets that I remember the most are the ones that were about WHO was there and who I competed against, not really what place I got.

I won't be bothered if I'm never a national or international champ. It wont even bother me if those who are, are weaker than I am. I'd rather spend my time going to well run, big meets regardless of federation or national level and compete against the best. I don't know, maybe I'm simple like that haha.

Nobody owes me a thing in my competing. I owe it to myself to do the best I can do and become the strongest person I can be, that's it. The rest I am grateful for whatever comes my way.

Travis Bell
07-16-2009, 02:22 PM
Vincent, I read your comments elsewhere on this topic and I do see your point

For me, I'm still not bothered by it, but I understand what you're saying and feel it's a valid viewpoint.

I compare myself to guys in my gym like Greg Panora, AJ Roberts, Dave Hoff and Tony Bologone. That keeps me busy enough haha

MarcusWild
07-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Vincent, I read your comments elsewhere on this topic and I do see your point

For me, I'm still not bothered by it, but I understand what you're saying and feel it's a valid viewpoint.

I compare myself to guys in my gym like Greg Panora, AJ Roberts, Dave Hoff and Tony Bologone. That keeps me busy enough haha

I think the issue is we don't have a unifying pro federation. We need a pro fed. The pro fed would be the only place you can set state records, national records, win a national championship, etc.

I look at it like hockey since I played that. There's one pro league, the NHL. They give out the big awards for most goals, most points, MVP, the Stanley Cup for team championship, etc. The NHL has the recognized pros and the awards that go with it.

Now there are tons of local hockey leagues around the country. They aren't part of the NHL or affiliated with it. They are great since they generate interest in the sport, let amateurs compete with people their level, etc. However, when I led my league in assists I wasn't a "national assist champion". That's where powerlifting gets stupid with the 648 billion national champions every year.

It'd be great to see a pro powerlifting federation with only a few weight classes. It'd increase the competition. It'd also be where the true national records and national champions are determined.

OK, now I'm going to go find a really bad baseball league so I can break the single season HR record! Move over Barry Bonds.

Hazerboy
07-16-2009, 04:31 PM
It won't happen because we let ourselves get screwed. It's not like this in strongman. Too many fools lining the pockets of others. That's why people just stand around and say it's ok. This is just how it is. Pathetic.

I think a lot of people agree with you Vincent(me included) but so far I've never heard any solutions to this. Why is it other sports (strongman, I'm sure olympic weightlifting, and something like ultimate frisbee come to mind) are able to come out on top with only a few federations, and powerlifting has 50? Is it the equipment companies, the lifters fault, or what?

Travis I'd say you are a minority. I like coming away from a competition knowing that I've actually won something, not set an empty state record because the 198 class in the ADFPF is weak in Illinois or not many people showed up to that meet (a result of 50 federations). For the casual competitor, its a bit harder to "seek out" the competition. When I go to local meets in my area, it could be a great showing that day or almost everyone could be weak.

For instance, its a little, well, annoying to set a state record then realize that in reality its only a state record for people in your age division and federation. There could be 10+ feds in a single state.

Compare it to something like HS track. When you set a state record in track, it means its a record for every school of your size for probably the last 50 or more years. It means something. Powerlifting records don't have nearly as much weight - you have to take into account federation, equipment, age group, weight class, etc. etc. I want an easy way to compare myself with the best of those in my weight division, and it doesn't really exist (there have been attempts made, I believe, but nothing thats super collaborative, like a multi-federation records list or something)

I say this because when I come home from a meet and tell my friends "hey I broke a record!" I hate having to preface it with 20 minutes of talk about the different federations and blah blah blah. What other sport has to do that crap? I'm not saying that there aren't other rules or federations in other sports, but we're the only one whose getting screwed!

Anyways, I think we all know the problems, and I'm basically just reiterating whats already been said. How do we fix it?

Travis Bell
07-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Wow HB that was quite the response lol!

I understand, and maybe you're right, I'm the minority.

I would be very excited to see pro powerlifting come to a nationall recognized level to where guys could make their living doing it. I really doubt it'll ever happen though. It's not necessairly everyone's fault so much as that's just the way it is. Until someone who has bukoo bucks comes along and injects powerlifting with a ton of money and brings it into the limelight (similar to what Dana White did with MMA), we're going to be the background music. The difference is I'm cool with that.

If powerlifting went on TV and people started making millions, that would not make me love powerlifting any more than I do now.

If it never does, I won't love it any less.

it wouldn't change the way I lift, the way I train, I'm quite content with where it is, but won't resist it going further.

Setting a state record to me is meaningless (for myself). Seriously, who cares? The media? nope. My family? yeah kinda, in a supportive way.

I would rather go to a big meet and get my tail handed to me by someone like Rob Luyando or Vincent Dizenzo, and still hit a PR, than go to a national level meet, win my class and take home a trophy.

Just personal priorities I guess.

HP666
07-16-2009, 07:28 PM
Trophies? Records? PR's? I powerlift for the chicks. :thumbup:

fulldaddy
07-16-2009, 08:04 PM
Travis - you are a true competitor and I appreciate that. Many here have been competing at a high level for some time and your mindset is different. My next meet will be held exactly one year after I started to compete in this great sport (so what do I know). I've gone through the progression of being jacked about getting a trophy for 2nd place (there were only 2 of us) to only thinking about PR's, having fun, and climbing up a PL Watch top 50 list. I just think it is a natural progression. I won a state championship - it was cool because I'd never been a part of a state title (just losing them) but it was tempered & didn't mean as much because I didn't beat anyone. Did anyone get offended by that - if I didn't post it here - would anyone have known it even happened?

Outside of this small community here I doubt anyone knows how many different federations there are. The average Joe asks me if I bench, squat, and do that one lift over my head. AND SO WHAT if somebody I've never met before wins a state title & sets a state record somewhere - even if it is unopposed. I'm not pissed or offended - quite the opposite - I think if it gives them something to feel good about & they worked for it - great. I don't care how long a meet takes or how long the awards take - if I trained 8 weeks for one day - I am in no hurry for it to be over. I am so grateful for what this sport has done for me personally I hope others will experience the same joys. You may hate to explain breaking a record & the different federations - how different is trying to explain why people wear two layers of supportive equipment along with briefs to lift more? I don't care but to the average person (if we are worried about their opinions) what sounds more unusual?

Do more federations divide the sport or does the "in fighting" about federations, equipment, and squat depth divide the sport? I compete in the USAPL & NASA and lift raw but I respect & appreciate other lifters and what they do.

People that want to compete against the best in their niche go where the best are competing. I hope to be at a point soon where I am competing at National level meets against the best - again - part of the progression. Maybe 3 or 4 years from now I will be seeking out the big boys. Competitors seek out competition - seek them out and quit worrying about everyone else.

I'm still trying to figure out how I am getting screwed. What I DID figure out was a way to see how I compare to other lifters in my niche - I go to PLwatch.com - I click the 308, I click the raw - and I see EXACTLY how I compare to everyone else in the nation.

mastermonster
07-17-2009, 12:23 AM
Fulldaddy, the latter part of your post is very similar to my thoughts...and Travis; your not alone in your views. To my understanding the 1 ply div. will start as an open class only, so it's not going to add too much to awards ceremonies. It will be tried for a while to see if there's enough interest in it to do it Nationally. That is my understanding of it. Fulldaddy hit on a very valid reason for a fed like the APF (or any other) having all venues of lifting within one umbrella(federation). You can buy one federation card for the year and during that year pick 3 meets and be able to attempt to rank in Raw, Single, and Multi-ply rankings such as PL Watch rankings. I'm excited about the chance to now do that all within my federation of choice; the APF. My point is much like Fulldaddy hit on. The only people most veteran competitors are really competing against, in any given meet; is the lifters who's rankings they want to overtake. That's why I'm looking forward to lifting in the 1 ply division in Sept. I know where I stack up multi-ply, and raw within the last year; and as a Masters lifter. Now I want to see if I can rank where I think I can in 1 ply. That's the excitment and challenge I'll get from this format. A new group of high caliber lifters to try to out rank each year. In many cases, the top 5 or top 10 rankings are more prestigious than the fed records. At least that's how I see it. I think this is just the natural evolution of the sport...all venues under each federation. Then the stronger, more stable feds will thrive and continue, while the smaller ones (now with nothing different to offer) will begin to fall by the way side. In the long run this could be the best thing to solidify the sport and eventually even create more head to head competition at meets due to fewer feds surviving. All of that would of course be a looong term outcome...but a posible outcome.

fulldaddy
07-17-2009, 06:24 AM
I should add that i do understand why people get upset with the addition of a new fed. I compare this to how I feel about all of the minor league indoor/arena football leagues all over the country. There are really some bush league operations out there.
I don't necessarily like to see pictures in PL USA of guys benching with jeans on but...... they are still powerlifting & they are doing something they love. Again - I just worry about getting ready for my next meet.

I love the concept of the RAW Unity meet - talk about a unifying concept. What I think is more important to focus on is growing the sport by trying to get people involved. When people ask me about PL I take the time to tell them about it & get them excited about it. From one of my 65 year old female clients, to my wife, to our college FB players here I used to coach - they are learning about it, thinking about it, and maybe some day they will give it a shot.

I'd love to see posts here and over at PLW talking about how to grow the sport instead of what seems like thousands of posts of powerlifters arguing with eachother about what is wrong with the sport.

Fuzzy
07-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Would people prefer it if the IPF had a raw, single ply and multiply segments?

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
07-17-2009, 07:50 AM
Would people prefer it if the IPF had a raw, single ply and multiply segments?

IPF has been single ply since 1972 and will probably never add a multi ply division. Now, a raw division might be added in the near future because the IPF affiliated federation(usapl) has a raw national championship, con-cret raw challenge pl meet at the Arnold Classic, keep raw records and raw rankings.

danmac
07-17-2009, 07:56 AM
Would people prefer it if the IPF had a raw, single ply and multiply segments?

I would like them to have a raw division, since there is a lot of IPF events around here. I can always go to the CPO (WPO) which does though, but then its untested and i would probably go unopposed (from the event i have seen).

balance85
07-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I would like them to have a raw division, since there is a lot of IPF events around here. I can always go to the CPO (WPO) which does though, but then its untested and i would probably go unopposed (from the event i have seen).

There is actually a small Raw CPU (IPF) sanctioned meet happening in Charlottetown next saturday (25th). You might start seeing more of them pop up in the future.

danmac
07-17-2009, 07:21 PM
There is actually a small Raw CPU (IPF) sanctioned meet happening in Charlottetown next saturday (25th). You might start seeing more of them pop up in the future.

Thats good news! I hope we see them here, Im going to talk the meet organizer for my area. I think we would have a decent showing. It makes it a lot easier for the new guys (like me) to get into it without having to invest in (and learn) gear right off the bat.