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View Full Version : Sub 10% BF - Diet critique please



Beneteau
07-26-2009, 06:41 PM
I'm 180lbs and perhaps 10-11% BF. I've been lifting for years, but have never seriously attempted to lean out and attain a BF% that is in the single digits. Specifically, whereas at some points in the past I have been lean enough to see some abdominal definition, I have never been able completely kill the little "pouch" above the bottom two of the six-pack. A failed attempt at Lyle McDonald's UD2 a while back put me off of even bothering again with dieting to be lean (UD2 is insane!).

Recently I purchased the Livestrong/DailyPlate calorie tracker for the iPhone. I observed my regular eating habits for a week, just to see where I was at and to establish a baseline. I did some "internet research" based on my goal and then started making diet adjustments. At first, I was consuming too many carbs (+300g/day) and not enough protein (under 100g). I corrected my meals a bit and here's where I have been averaging over the last 7 days:

DAILY AVERAGE:
Cals 1952
Fat 85
Cholest 647
Sodium 2852
Carbs 94
Sugars 26
Fiber 10
Protein 204


I am keeping carbs under 100g/day (of which 4-30gms are sugar). Eggs, tuna, chicken and protein powder make up the protein component, veggies are thrown in for fiber and satiety, and most of the fat is coming from olive oil, the protein powder, milk and walnuts. I am not really going hungry at all and the low-carb aspect has not been as bad as I thought (UD2 was MURDER!)

Additionally, I have been working out 5x/week but have not been tracking it (yet). My workouts consist of nothing special:

Chest/shoulder/tri days--rotate between light/heavy weight and high-rep (12-15)/low-rep (4-8) sets
Back/biceps days--same as above
Cardio days--some days interval workouts 100m sprints or 50m hill sprints or running 2 miles.

I'm taking this seriously so I really appreciate your feedback!

cphafner
07-26-2009, 06:45 PM
1900 calories seems real low. I would like to see higher protein during a cut. What is your maintenance calorie level? How tall are you?

Beneteau
07-26-2009, 07:06 PM
1900 calories seems real low. I would like to see higher protein during a cut. What is your maintenance calorie level? How tall are you?

I'm 6'2". I can't really say with precision what my maintenance level is, 2800 maybe? More than 3000? *shrug*.

cphafner
07-26-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm 6'2". I can't really say with precision what my maintenance level is, 2800 maybe? More than 3000? *shrug*.

6'2 and 180. I'm guessing your metabolism is pretty damn fast. If your maintenance is 3000 (and you shouldn't be guessing on this) then why go 1000 cals lower? You are going to burn your muscle. Start 200-300 cals below maintenance and then tweak as needed.

Beneteau
07-27-2009, 02:00 AM
6'2 and 180. I'm guessing your metabolism is pretty damn fast. If your maintenance is 3000 (and you shouldn't be guessing on this) then why go 1000 cals lower? You are going to burn your muscle. Start 200-300 cals below maintenance and then tweak as needed.

I have to claim ignorance on my daily caloric intake. I read an article that said something along the lines of "take the weight you want to be at, multiply by 10 and add 100 calories for every hour of exercise/week." So my calculation was: 175 (lbs) * 10 + 500 (1 hour, 5x/week). That brought me to 2250 cals/day and then I just arbitrarily subtracted another 200 out of impatience. :)

tom183
07-27-2009, 06:57 AM
^--Dont trust formulas or online calculators. Tracking calories is the only reliable way.

Unreal
07-27-2009, 11:26 AM
Where is the leg workout?

2000 cals a day could work if you do refeeds to keep your metabolism up. If not then I would up the cals. I find it easier to stick to low cal during the week when I'm busy with work then refeed on Sat/Sun.

Unholy
07-27-2009, 11:53 AM
I have to agree 100%. I would have 1 meal every 3-4 days where you consume 150-200g of carbs over the course of ~1 hour. I would minimize liquids during that to avoid unnecessary abdominal bloat. Have some eggos with various toppings, pasta. Control the fats and proteins though, this shouldn't be a binge meal. You want to replenish glycogen and give your body a little reset. You will look fuller and leaner the day after your carb meal. I am currently running this type of protocol too. 120g/day on carbs and one carb meal every 3 days. Keep at it. I have also tried UD2.0 and agree that it makes things way to complicated.

Beneteau
07-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Thanks!

Unreal: You're right... I haven't done anything for legs really. The interval workouts have been tearing up my legs so I haven't been up to it. But I agree, I should be adding the leg workouts into the equation ASAP.

Unholy: Refeeds every 3-4 days sound good to me. I'm probably definitely due for one. Thanks for the heads-up on the water. Is there any time of day that's better/worse than the others for this meal?

Also, what do you mean about controlling the fats and proteins?

During the refeed meal or in general? How does my overall fat intake look? From what I gather, it's a number that's less important than the others, especially given that I'm eating the good fats. (It's amazing how much a handful of Walnuts have!)

EDIT: what kind of carbs on the refeeds? I'm assuming the good stuff, complex carbs, not sugars.

Unreal
07-27-2009, 02:27 PM
You want to aim for about .5g/lb LBM so your fats look fine.

Beneteau
07-27-2009, 06:48 PM
Maybe you guys can help clarify the refeed part for me:

- Does it matter what time of day I do the carb refeed?
- Complex and/or low GI carbs only?
- Can you give me a few more examples of what to eat to hit 150-200g carbs in one meal? Are there any menu lists somewhere? Some searches turned up nothing.

EDIT: Among other things, I have a ton of Jasmine rice, maybe that would do the trick. 1 cup uncooked would be just shy of 200g.
EDIT 2: Apparently Jasmine rice has a really high GI, so I am going with Rotini pasta.

Unreal
07-28-2009, 09:23 AM
GI shouldn't really matter.

Oats, bagels, rice, potatoes, cereal, rice cakes, fatfree candy, etc.

I would do it at night before bed to try to minimize cravings.

SDS
07-28-2009, 03:12 PM
You're 6'2 and 180 lbs and you're cutting? I'm 6'2 and 208.......people still call me skinny. I feel like 210-ish is a good weight for my height, but if I were going to cut, it makes more sense to me to hit 220-225, then cut down to 210. I can't imagine being back at 180.....I felt totally fragile and uncomfortable at that weight. 210 and 10% is my goal if I can ever get serious about sticking to a diet plan.

anonymous1
07-28-2009, 03:34 PM
Good advice from Unreal. Under 10% you're going to have to do some carb or calories cycling. If UD2 is too much for you, you're just going to have to use the information in the book other ways that suit you better.

Bottom line is, if you couldn't follow UD2, you probably just aren't going to get any lower in bf%. Under 10% is an absolute bitch. Your body is 100% against you. It's going to be hard.

Beneteau
07-30-2009, 07:03 PM
You're 6'2 and 180 lbs and you're cutting? I'm 6'2 and 208.......people still call me skinny. I feel like 210-ish is a good weight for my height, but if I were going to cut, it makes more sense to me to hit 220-225, then cut down to 210. I can't imagine being back at 180.....I felt totally fragile and uncomfortable at that weight. 210 and 10% is my goal if I can ever get serious about sticking to a diet plan.


Yeah, you're right. I hate to say it but my goal is to have abs for the first time in my life. Kind of a stupid goal, but yeah...

I have a pretty fast metabolism so gaining weight is always a problem. Back in college I became pretty dedicated at eating a ton and lifting and bulked up to 215 lbs. It was nice being strong but I never had abs. I weighed myself two days ago and this little diet experiment above has me down to 174. I feel like I need to pull the rip-cord and say enough is enough.

174!! This is getting ridiculous.

The closest I have come to well defined abs was 2 years ago when I was eating cleanly (though not counting calories or carbs) and working out a lot (Crossfit, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, 2-3x/week weights).

What the hell is a guy to do.

Just give it up and resign myself to never bother with having abs as a goal... chalk it up to bad genes? Or do some kind of clean-bulk (oxymoron?) and keep cardio/weights/etc going as I had done a few years ago?

Frustrating...

XMadmanX
07-30-2009, 07:49 PM
just get big everywhere else and you won't care about abs