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Pav
07-27-2009, 12:45 PM
when cutting, why should some one eat relatively low carbs?

Searched around this forum, couldn't find much on it.. im eating low carbs right now on the cut im doing and wondering why is it important to..

Unholy
07-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Its not. There are many ways to cut. A caloric deficit is all you really need.

As far as preserving LBM, you need a good amount of protein.

You need fats for your joints and brain, as well as many other things in the body.

Carbohydrates are the only macro nutrient your body can survive without. Its the easiest to draw from carbs when dieting. Since a 200lb 10% BF athelete will need about 100G of healthy fats and 200-250+G of protein a day. That doesn't leave too much room for carbs.

For others its a matter of insulin control. In my case I diet down much more easily controlling insulin secretion through limiting carbs and timing them a certain way.

How low are your carbs mate? What are overall macros looking like?

Optimum08
07-27-2009, 01:30 PM
:withstupi:

Unreal
07-27-2009, 01:49 PM
Some people find carbs make them hungry so low carb diets can be good for hunger control.

Pav
07-27-2009, 01:51 PM
Macros are around 60% protein, 30% fat and 10% carbs.. im around 50 days into the cut.. weight went from 202 to 190 current.. going to cut around 10 more pounds and hopefully ill be around 10% bodyfat.. im around 14 ish right now, maybe a bit lower

Unreal
07-27-2009, 02:10 PM
What are the actual numbers, not percents.

If it is working for you then stick to it. If you are really low on energy, feel flat, or just feel crappy maybe do a refeed every once and awhile.

Pav
07-27-2009, 03:51 PM
315 protein
95 fat
20 carbs..

workout days- 50 carbs.. i posted a thread a little while back about diet.. i was just curious and thought that more carbs would impact cutting negatively.. ima throw in some carbs now pre-workout.. been feeling like **** going into so many workouts during this cut

Unreal
07-27-2009, 03:59 PM
It will only effect it if your calories go up. If you drop the protein a bit to compensate for the carbs and keep calories where they are you should be fine.

pablonba
07-27-2009, 04:41 PM
315 protein
95 fat
20 carbs..

workout days- 50 carbs.. i posted a thread a little while back about diet.. i was just curious and thought that more carbs would impact cutting negatively.. ima throw in some carbs now pre-workout.. been feeling like **** going into so many workouts during this cut

Its tough to follow that diet man, congrats... What do you eat? Lots of protein shakes?

Pav
07-27-2009, 05:18 PM
this was my meal plan

Meal 1:

1 Scoop Protein Shake… Peanuts... Tuna


Meal 2:

6 egg Omlette (1 yolk) Peanuts


Meal 3:

Chicken Breast… Broccoli…1 Scoop Protein Shake


Meal 4:

Chicken Breast… Lettuce… Cucumber

Meal 5:

1 cup Cottage Cheese, 3 egg Omlette (1 yolk)


Meal 6:

Chicken Breast… 1 scoop Protein Shake

BigCorey75
07-27-2009, 07:37 PM
To understand the reason carbs get cut out of diets when people are trying to lose fat on cutting diets you need to understand what Insulin is and its purpose and how fat cells operate.

Insulin is the most anabolic hormone know to man. Insulin is a hormone that tells the body to store nutrients. Insulin is released into the blood stream every time we eat because when you eat your blood sugar rises and high blood sugar is toxic to the body, so your body releases insulin to get it out of the blood stream and get the nutrients into proper storage areas. The three places nutrients get stored in the muscles, organs and fat tissue.

Now people often mistake Fat tissue as some sort of permanent dumb for the bodies excess calories, that not true. While fat cells are supposed to store nutrients they are also designed to release these nutrients back into the body between meals. Now most people of the same relative size have the same number of fat cells, but people who are heavier just have bigger fat cells because they are full of more nutrients so yes all that giggly stuff is actually stuff our body needs and can use, the problem is that they dont have efficient fat cells, energy goes in easily, but does not come out easily.

All of this comes back to insulin. Now your body has limited storage capacity for carbs and other nutrients, but an unlimited capacity to store fat. So when people eat diets high in carbs they have high insulin through out the day, and they are constantly storing nutrients in there fat cells. Because the muscles and organs are constantly being bombarded by the insulin to tell it to store more nutrients when they are full and can no longer hold anymore, they in a since stop listening because they cant hold any more, and because u have unlimited capacity to store fat, your body will convert that energy to fat and store it in your cells. After a long time your cells get conditioned to this, your muscles dont heed the instructions of the insulin and the fat immediately stores the energy. When your body is in a state like this its called being "insulin insensitive"

Now after a while, your muscles need energy to continue running and functioning, but the fat cells are conditioned to store and not release the energy so they dont, so the muscles and organs send the signal for energy and you get hungry and you eat something and the entire process starts all over again, so in a since through poor diet people are not getting fat because they are eating more but they are eating more because they get fat.

Now when you begin to remove the carbs from the diet you ward off excess insulin production and the muscles are no longer getting the word from insulin to store but they need the energy, but since insulin is not signaling the fat to store energy, they in a since begin the process of releasing the energy back to the muscles because the nature of diets high in fat, which you have to up when you cut out the carbs, your body will get used to using fat as an energy source, and once this gets conditioned in the body will use the fat it already has energy.

This explains why low carb diets work well for people trying to lose weight, it increases insulin sensitivity and puts the body into a fat burning state. One common killer mistake is not upping the fat intake this will ward off tiredness and mood swings and such from not having an energy source.

So for a BB or someone in shape with efficient fat cells this process happens quicker and they can drop the fat, but a lean person can benefit from occasional insulin spikes or "carb ups" to kick start a new fat burning process.

its all about insulin management and making your fat cells more efficient.


hope that helped some

backdraft005
07-27-2009, 09:32 PM
Jesus corey, i think thats the first time ive actually understood the diet plan so well. awesome. to bad i eat alot of carbs.

how about low fat diets? with high protien and and medium carbs?

Pav
07-27-2009, 09:33 PM
thanks for info.. appreciate it, ill up the fat a bit

BigCorey75
07-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Jesus corey, i think thats the first time ive actually understood the diet plan so well. awesome. to bad i eat alot of carbs.

how about low fat diets? with high protien and and medium carbs?

Low fat diets dont work, especially if your a man.


There are things called Essential Amino Acids that you have to get from your foods and if you dont get them you will die.

There are also things called essential Fatty Acids, that you must get as well from your foods or you will die.

There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.


Many people can get sufficient carb intake if they eat plenty of veggies and some fruits


Now back to the Fat you speak of so low fat dose not work because you wont get your essential fatty acids for your health and it will make u hungry in order so you can get those nutrients.

Also your brain is 60% fat, and your cells in your body tend to be covered and coated with fats and Cholesterol

Guess what else your body makes from Cholesterol?

Testosterone.


Yes our friend Testosterone is made from cholesterol, so by going low fat you can impede your body from making as much test as it can.

But the simple trick to finding good fats is to think natural. Good meats, red meat has a lot of good fats, as well as whole milk and cheeses, the skin on chicken, fatty fish like Salmon and Tuna are loaded with Omega 3s and 6s and good pieces of pork as well Also natural butter, not spread because they are highly processed im talking real butter.

Then you have your good oils. You want cold pressed oils, nothing hydrogenated. Olive oils are great (extra virgin for salads and dressings, and tasty additions to protein shakes, virgin can be used for blanching or coating for baking, and regular olive oil for cooking) Peanut oil, coconut oils, walnut oil things of that nature.

Also believe it or not Lard is much healthier for you than Vegetable oil. Lard is nothing more than rendered pork fat which again is a natural substance, much better than vegetable oil which is highly processed and hot pressed and cooked and hydrogenated, and better than canola which under goes the same process. Now dont go slathering lard on all of your food, but it is a healthier alternative than using processed oils

Fat is found naturally in all human diets for as long as our existence, dont deny it.

Also stay away from anything labeled "low fat, no fat" or anything like that. Because if something naturally has fat in it, and you remove the fat its no longer what it is and its no longer real food or healthy for you, also eat your whole damn eggs, the yolk contains tons of good HDL cholesterol, its good for ya, plus it contains enzymes that will help you digest the protein in the whites, yes that right if you only eat egg whites your only getting about 30% of the protein into your body, so stop being weenies and wasting eggs eat the whole things, its way more tasty

Joe Black
07-28-2009, 03:27 AM
I will tell you that from my personal experience, choosing when to eat carbs has made an incredible difference to my own weight loss.

I only eat carbohydrates if I deserve them and that's either during/immediately after a workout (in the form of a drink) and after workout (about an hour after in the form of a meal). All other times of the day my carbohydrate sources are either fruit or vegetables and therefore pretty low.

My protein and fat intake is pretty high through the day and I have found this approach has really caused my weight to drop.

Optimum08
07-28-2009, 08:45 AM
I will tell you that from my personal experience, choosing when to eat carbs has made an incredible difference to my own weight loss.

I only eat carbohydrates if I deserve them and that's either during/immediately after a workout (in the form of a drink) and after workout (about an hour after in the form of a meal). All other times of the day my carbohydrate sources are either fruit or vegetables and therefore pretty low.

My protein and fat intake is pretty high through the day and I have found this approach has really caused my weight to drop.

:withstupi:

I would look into carb cycling as I've found it to be really effective in keeping energy levels up while in a caloric deficit.

one-bl
07-28-2009, 09:07 AM
So what I'm getting from this is that if you limit the amount of carbs you consume in a diet, say below at least 20% in grams of your body weight in lbs and like wise increase your intake of protein and clean fats, then you will be able to gain weight (depending on if you have a steady caloric intake) but minimize the amount of fat that you gain because the body is no longer storing the fat, but utilizing it as energy? I ask this because this relates to a thread I started a day ago and this would basically solve my problem...

Unreal
07-28-2009, 09:48 AM
So what I'm getting from this is that if you limit the amount of carbs you consume in a diet, say below at least 20% in grams of your body weight in lbs and like wise increase your intake of protein and clean fats, then you will be able to gain weight (depending on if you have a steady caloric intake) but minimize the amount of fat that you gain because the body is no longer storing the fat, but utilizing it as energy? I ask this because this relates to a thread I started a day ago and this would basically solve my problem...

Not that simple. Calorie is still the king. If you eat well over maintence even with doing this your going to store extra fat. The key to minimizing fat gain is calories and control over them.

Joe Black
07-28-2009, 09:50 AM
I think you;re over thinking things a bit. If you are looking to gain weight, the daily amount of calories you consume is the most important factor, even over the percentages of macronutrients. The reason I commented on this thread has because the original poster is trying to cut and I found reducing carbs at most meals helped me the most.

if you are gaining, I think this would be less important. Focus more on the amount of calories and eat a few more carbs. the 40/30/30 (p.c.f) always worked ok for me bulking.

Glaive
08-01-2009, 02:30 AM
So what I'm getting from this is that if you limit the amount of carbs you consume in a diet, say below at least 20% in grams of your body weight in lbs and like wise increase your intake of protein and clean fats, then you will be able to gain weight (depending on if you have a steady caloric intake) but minimize the amount of fat that you gain because the body is no longer storing the fat, but utilizing it as energy? I ask this because this relates to a thread I started a day ago and this would basically solve my problem...

You naturally use glucose as your primary form of energy, but everyone burns a certain amount of fat along with it. How much boils down to what your diet and activity are like. Certain type of exercise are more likely than others to promote the use of fat for energy, but it's still going to be an issue of burning "some" fat for energy while most of your energy comes from carbohydrates in the form of glucose.

Dropping your carbohydrate intake down does not magically flip a switch and turn you into a fat burning machine. If you actually want to be burning fat as your primary energy source you have to be pretty strict with your diet, and you generally need to adjust your training around this as well.

Fat metabolism on this scale requires large amounts of a hormone called glucagon, which unfortunately can only be achieved when large amounts of ketone bodies are in the system (achieved by large-scale consumption of fats) and insulin levels are low to non-existent. This means consuming lots of fat and very little if anything in the way of carbohydrates. Combined with a proper training routine you will eventually pass into a state of ketosis where you are tearing through fat like no tomorrow.

However, most "low-carb" diets are not ketogenic and will not ever put you in this state. Most people using a low-carb approach are simply reducing their carbohydrates down, eating fibrous and leafy vegetables and probably still eating carbohydrates post-workout.

The benefits to this approach are more to do with maintaining insulin-sensitivity. Insulin is an important hormone for general health but especially for body composition. Eating excessive amounts of carbohydrates and being overweight both make you more resistant to insulin make it harder to get an insulin spike, resulting in higher and higher blood sugar levels. This can often lead to Type II Diabetes if not managed properly.

Insulin carries glucose (the sugar that all carbohydrates break down into) through your blood to your muscle cells where it's stored as glycogen. This is the "emergency energy store" that you use to lift weights, sprint, run away from a bear, or any other "intense" exercise. Anything leftover that can't be stored as glycogen gets stored as fat. This is referred to as "glucose spillover."

It is for this reason that regardless as to whether you're eating "low carb" or not you don't want to eat massive amounts of carbohydrates all at one time, since you are greatly increasing the chances that you'll be adding to body fat stores. This is part of the reason for eating many small meals throughout the day rather than cramming 3000 calories into your body all at once.

Reducing glucose spillover makes it easier to gain lean mass since you're not adding as much fat along with it, and maximizes the effectiveness of a cutting plan by not replacing lost fat with new fat (or at least not as much).

A non-ketogenic low-carb diet is basically just going to maximize insulin-sensitivity while minimizing the body fat you add on, resulting in a greater net loss of overall body fat (presuming your diet and training are in order).

It's worth noting that maintaining glycogen levels is very important, and intense exercise such as HIIT or lifting will deplete this. The post-workout carbohydrates you ingest and those in the hours following will help replenish this lost glycogen, but it is for this reason that you should never engage in a low-carbohydrate diet, ketogenic or otherwise, without some sort of "refeed" of carbohydrates on a regular basis.

This serves not only to replenish lost glycogen stores but also to ensure proper thyroid function, as your thyroid (and thus your metabolic rate) will start to slow down if carbohydrate levels are kept low for a prolonged period of time.

As a general rule, if you're going longer than a week without a carb-heavy meal to refeed your system then you're doing something wrong.