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OGROK
08-04-2009, 02:41 PM
I am training raw bench at the moment and of course I am weak at the bottom like most newbie benchers, so the lockout isn't really a huge problem. However, I am wondering whether 4-boards are still good as a major triceps accessory movement to be done for heavy sets of 6 or something like that.

SEOINAGE
08-04-2009, 02:46 PM
Not sure what to tell you but I incorporate 4 board and 2 board presses and it helped get rid of a sticking point a part of the way up. My lockout is really powerful now too so if I can get it going it powers up. I have the intention of one day lifting with and competing in a bench shirt eventually.

bencher8
08-04-2009, 02:51 PM
sure, 4 brds is a great strength builder for triceps. When training for strength, just remember to train the movement, not the muscle. In other words, choose exercises that engage the muscle in a pattern that mimics the movement. 4 brds does, Stuff like tri pushdowns, does not...

...not to say the other exercise arent useful, but tri pushdowns will not make your lockout stronger. Just dont make the 4 brd your main movement for the day..

MarcusWild
08-04-2009, 03:56 PM
sure, 4 brds is a great strength builder for triceps. When training for strength, just remember to train the movement, not the muscle. In other words, choose exercises that engage the muscle in a pattern that mimics the movement. 4 brds does, Stuff like tri pushdowns, does not...

...not to say the other exercise arent useful, but tri pushdowns will not make your lockout stronger. Just dont make the 4 brd your main movement for the day..

Haha, you're going against Louie's theory to use a lighter weight to lifter a heavier weight. 4-Bd works good, but you have to watch what it does to the total volume of your bench training. Doing boards with hundreds of pounds causes a lot more joint and CNS strain than doing rolling DB extensions, pushdowns, JM presses, or Tate presses.

Dave Tate talks about the volume issue in an online clip. If you're just adding it, then start with something light like the tricep pushdowns. The key is to do them at an angle that mimics your bench. Then every 3-4 weeks switch to a new tricep exercise that lets you use a heavier weight. I'd say in order they would go tricep pushdown, Tate press, Rolling DB extension, JM press, then the board work. This will let your body get used to the heavier volume in a natural progression instead of just jumping to the most intense exercise.

bencher8
08-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Im not going against Lou's theory. His theory of using a lighter weight to move a heavier weight consists of moving that lighter weight fast and applying as much force against that light weight as you would to move a heavy weight. Tri pushdowns will not build your lockout strength...I am not saying they wont work the muscle, I am not saying that you shouldnt do them, but they are not a strength exercise, they are a BB exercise.

Yes, board work may put more stress on the joints and the CNS...thats why they work! Thats why they make you stronger.

Throw out your high brd lockout work and keep the tri pushes, JM presses, and tate presses and see what happens to your lockout.....I have tried this. I took 4-5 brd presses out and my lockout went to crap inside of 2 months..

How do you do tricep pushdowns at an angle that mimics your bench press?

NickAus
08-04-2009, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=

Yes, board work may put more stress on the joints and the CNS...thats why they work! Thats why they make you stronger.

Throw out your high brd lockout work and keep the tri pushes, JM presses, and tate presses and see what happens to your lockout.....I have tried this. I took 4-5 brd presses out and my lockout went to crap inside of 2 months..

How do you do tricep pushdowns at an angle that mimics your bench press?[/QUOTE]

I have only been able to use high boards to work my lock-out/triceps due to a bad elbow.
Extensions and pushdowns really hurt, Paul told me to leave them out and stick with the high boards and my bench has gone up around 40lbs.
Of course when my arm is 100% again I will add some extensions in on speed day.

MarcusWild
08-04-2009, 05:37 PM
I'm not saying to not do them. I'm agreeing with you that they are good. I'm just saying to build up to them instead of jump straight into them. That way it's a manageable volume increase. Most of you guys that hit the board work really heavy for a lot of volume have been training for YEARS and have huge benches.

The "Panora press" is a tricep extension where you press more away from your body instead of down. They mimic the arm angle of a bench pretty well if you arch when you bench. It's almost like a decline press angle.

Personally, I used to do the heavy boards then 4 sets of one tricep movement. Now I do less sets on the boards and 4 sets of two tricep movements. That way I can feel some heavy weight, but not beat myself up so much that it affects my squat/deadlift training. By adding the extra tricep movement, my lockout strength is still improving. Now I'm going to start increasing the sets of each tricep movement. If I'd have gone right from 4 sets to 12-16 (my end goal), that would have been too dramatic of increase and too fast.

OGROK
08-04-2009, 06:19 PM
I dunno, I think I might need to do more compound pressing b/c all these extensions are starting to wear on my elbows a bit.

Travis Bell
08-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Marcus is right, Lou isn't a huge advocate (at least at this point in time) of high boards for lockout work. We don't really do them at all.

Marcus, you're also right in Lou's theory of using lighter weight to move heavier weight. Greg, Luke, AJ and myself all do our lockout work by doing pushdown variations, JM's, skull crushers, Tates and other assorted close grip stuff. That's what he emphasizes and it's worked out well for all of us. AJ's and mine bench have been skyrocketing and Greg just benched 820 at the IPA pro meet.

I'd be the last one to say that close grip high boards don't work well (that'd be rather silly to say - not that anyone here has said that) but I do prefer the isolated movements to the high boards. You're working the same muscles, just with less wear and tear on your body.

Now for you OGROK, as a raw bencher they are a waste of time for you, especially if you're not weak at the top. Stick to heavy DB bench, cambered bar bench, cambered bar off boards, floor press etc, for your bench to keep going up. If you're weak at the bottom, work on the bottom, not the top.

OGROK
08-04-2009, 06:46 PM
So are you saying that as long as I am training raw, shoulder/pec-dominant presses (stuff like DB bench) are better accessories than tricep-dominant presses? You were telling me you didn't do front delt work so I don't know if that's a shirt thing or not... For my tricep accessory work, should I still to full range of motion stuff like close grips, JM press, etc, rather than lockout tricep work? Thanks for the help dude.

Travis Bell
08-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Yeah I don't do any front delt work, but I train raw 90% of the time (to improve my shirted bench) but I feel that your front delts get plenty of work from the flat bench.

The reason you should stick to lower end movements is because that's where you're weak. If you get to a point where you're weak at the top, then you'd tackle the top end stuff.

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 07:10 PM
I have had great success with my raw lockout by doing a lot more extension work. I continued to do boards but they were close grip for higher reps in the 10-20 range.

Travis Bell
08-04-2009, 07:31 PM
Vincent, what are your thoughts on front delt work? You have done a good bit of it in the past if I'm not mistaken. What are your thoughts now?

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Vincent, what are your thoughts on front delt work? You have done a good bit of it in the past if I'm not mistaken. What are your thoughts now?

I have taken it out for this training cycle. My raw is stronger than ever, however, I don't think it would have been nearly as strong without my previous heavy shoulder pressing--I hit a pr 405 standing strict press in the fall. So my thoughts are heavy shoulder pressing in the off season then lighten or cut it during meet prep.

bencher8
08-04-2009, 08:18 PM
I guess this must be some new thing...extensions make your lockout stronger? Never worked for me, just made my elbows hurt. Never worked for others I have helped either....I do them, but always on my DE day and lighter for more reps. Basically I use all types of extensions as accessory work to build muscle in the area, then make that new muscle stronger. Strength building has always been high brd work. Is it hard on shoulders? sure. Is it hard on your CNS? sure. Is strength building supposed to be accomplished by taking it easy on your body? not sure about that...

I dont understand this statement...."You're working the same muscles, just with less wear and tear on your body." Isnt this the same thing as saying that someone could replace squatting with leg presses and extensions? Its working the same muscles, with less wear on your body. I dont think anyone would say thats a correct assumption right?



I agree that the OP shouldnt focus on 4 brd work as his main exercise, but it will work as an accessorry tricep strength builder. The focus of his training should be on increasing his low end power with all the movements suggested.

Jason198
08-04-2009, 08:53 PM
What would be 4 good M.E. exercises for a raw lifter

close grips + 40 lb of chain
2 board max
Floor Press
Flat Bench doubles

or would the 4 board be a good choice for a ME lift?

I always liked the 4 board, be honest I do not know if it has helped much,although I have broke my records on this movement

OGROK
08-04-2009, 09:42 PM
For raw bench, should training shoulders/pecs take precedence over the triceps? IE should I be doing more of stuff like cambereds, illegal wides, etc, over general tricep work?

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 09:44 PM
Throw around some 315lb barbell extensions and you'll get stronger triceps, that I can assure you. I do my moderate to heavier tri work on DE day. That's when I do my extension work. I'll throw a couple of sets of high board close grips for reps after ME work. I shoot for 2-3 reps above 90% on my ME bench exercise. When I did heavy board work afterwards the only thing it ever helped was my ego. The higher reps have translated to improving my lockout. Just reporting what has worked for me and the others I train.

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 09:46 PM
If I am training for raw bench, should training shoulders/pecs take precedence over the triceps? IE should I be doing more of stuff like cambereds, illegal wides, etc, over general tricep work?

I thought you were using the template from Rhodes' 600 lbs of raw bench article.

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 09:50 PM
What would be 4 good M.E. exercises for a raw lifter

close grips + 40 lb of chain
2 board max
Floor Press
Flat Bench doubles

or would the 4 board be a good choice for a ME lift?

I always liked the 4 board, be honest I do not know if it has helped much,although I have broke my records on this movement

Lose the 2 board and flat bench doubles and exchange them with regular flat bench and flat bench with bands. If you thow in a deload after the third week that means you'll only hit the same lift every 6 weeks.

OGROK
08-04-2009, 09:53 PM
I thought you were using the template from Rhodes' 600 lbs of raw bench article.

Well, I was concerned b/c that has stuff like 4boards, etc, and I am weak at the bottom.

bencher8
08-04-2009, 10:10 PM
extensions suck! lol

seriously though...ext. never worked for me. I do my high brd stuff on the same day as my ME bench. I like to keep all my heavy stuff on the same day, keeping my de day light.

different stuff works for different people though I guess.....

vdizenzo
08-04-2009, 10:18 PM
Well, I was concerned b/c that has stuff like 4boards, etc, and I am weak at the bottom.

Have you tried the program yet?

Make sure to add an extra light tricep exercise to each bench day like a pushdown or dumbell extension for a few sets with higher reps. For the boards is an assistance exercise, bump the reps up to the 8-12 range for a few sets.

Don't spend all your time looking for the right program instead of just sticking to one and working hard. Don't overthink things. SFW!

Rob Luyando
08-05-2009, 06:13 AM
OK ****ers here is my 2 cents. I think my lockout is strong enough to smack down an opinoin on this topic. And I don't care what the guys that write books say! High boards (4 &5) is hands down the best exercise for lock out strength. Use a close grip one hand width in from compitition grip and hold the reps for a three count at the top. Keep you rep range from 3 to 5 reps. And do them with as heavy as weight as possible. Yes this will take a toll on your body but so will any strength exercise. The key is smart recovery planning Ice & proper recovery suppliments is a must.

Extensions, Pushdowns, Key presses, and all other tri-cep exercises are also good for strength gains but you have to use maximum weight loads. Using light weight to get strong is b/s. Unless you are targetting your speed you need to train your tri-ceps heavy to get them strong as possible.

Now before you guys get your panties in a bunch think about how much I bench and how much you bench. There is a reason I am a freak and thats constant heavy lock outs and heavy assitance work!

Brian C
08-05-2009, 07:25 AM
W
OK ****ers here is my 2 cents. I think my lockout is strong enough to smack down an opinoin on this topic. And I don't care what the guys that write books say! High boards (4 &5) is hands down the best exercise for lock out strength. Use a close grip one hand width in from compitition grip and hold the reps for a three count at the top. Keep you rep range from 3 to 5 reps. And do them with as heavy as weight as possible. Yes this will take a toll on your body but so will any strength exercise. The key is smart recovery planning Ice & proper recovery suppliments is a must.

Extensions, Pushdowns, Key presses, and all other tri-cep exercises are also good for strength gains but you have to use maximum weight loads. Using light weight to get strong is b/s. Unless you are targetting your speed you need to train your tri-ceps heavy to get them strong as possible.

Now before you guys get your panties in a bunch think about how much I bench and how much you bench. There is a reason I am a freak and thats constant heavy lock outs and heavy assitance work!
Simply put.......Greatness

Pete22
08-05-2009, 08:17 AM
I've been using heavy 4-boards with bands/chains as an assistance movement for sets of 5. My lockout has improved. But I also do extensions, pushdowns and DB benches... so I'm going to be daring and say it's a combo of both that's helping my bench and lockout.

Travis Bell
08-05-2009, 01:27 PM
I dont understand this statement...."You're working the same muscles, just with less wear and tear on your body." Isnt this the same thing as saying that someone could replace squatting with leg presses and extensions? Its working the same muscles, with less wear on your body. I dont think anyone would say thats a correct assumption right?

C'mon Paul, nobody said drop bench pressing itself and take up pushdowns and extensions in place of it.

I'm just telling you what Louie has us do at Westside. In the 5 years I've been there I've only touched a 4brd once and it was when I was working out with the bench only crew

bencher8
08-05-2009, 01:49 PM
I am just debating the effectiveness of doing ext and pushdowns to improve your lockout. Like I said, I think that people should do them and brd work. Brd work is the top exercise to improve lockout strength. We agree that extensions will make your tricep stronger.....will that strength carry over to a stronger lockout is where we disagree. If you start with a 135lb tri ext. and you increase that to a 225lb tri ext...your triceps got stronger..no doubt...but will that make you be able to lock out a bench press better? I dont think so.

I used the analogy of squatting to prove the point. if I can do leg press with 225lb and increase that to 315lb my legs got stronger, but did it imporve my ability to squat more? I dont think so.

I just think that OP asked if doing a 4 brd would be a good assistance exercise to build tri strength. Of course it would. Should he do it as a main exercise, no as he is benching raw, hje should focus on full range stuff and buld his weak points.

BTW...you should never do 4 brds, so Lou picked that right. Your t-rex arms would give you no ROM! lol a 4 brd for me is almost half my ROM lol

MarcusWild
08-05-2009, 03:15 PM
I think a better analogy would be using the GHR (less weight and isolation movement) to increase your squat. That does work.

I think the goal is to use the extension work to build size and size equals strength potential. Then it's the ME work that converts the strength potential into actual pressing strength. I agree that you need to actually bench for the size/strength gain from extensions to translate to a bigger bench. I just think you can get that bench work with the ME movement.

slashkills
08-05-2009, 05:39 PM
marcus-I dont think you could compare triceps to the muscles involved in the squat. its pretty hard to effectively just hit a single muscle in the posterior chain. The glute ham raise hits every muscle from every angle used in a squat. The triceps need to be hit with exercises the mimic the bench because they are more...idk specific? you could build tricep strength with movements like tricep pressdowns and extensions but for lockout i think they arent the best option. You need a movement that hits them from that angle like 4 boards and rack lockouts. thats just what i think and you guys are much stronger than me so take what you want from this.

OGROK
08-05-2009, 06:16 PM
So, what are your thoughts on the importance of lats in raw benching? I noticed that geared lifters have to row the bar down, which is probably a big reason it is so important for them to have strong lats. But for raw benchers, is it still appropriate to beat the **** out of them in training?

slashkills
08-05-2009, 06:33 PM
Lats are pretty important especially for a wider grip bencher. They play a big role in lowering the bar and strength off the chest.

NickAus
08-05-2009, 07:03 PM
So, what are your thoughts on the importance of lats in raw benching? I noticed that geared lifters have to row the bar down, which is probably a big reason it is so important for them to have strong lats. But for raw benchers, is it still appropriate to beat the **** out of them in training?

Lats and upperback are very very important, you will never bench big raw or shirted without a strong and thick back.
I personally have found back training helps my bench big time and my training partner is the same and can raw bench double body weight touch and go!

Rob Luyando
08-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Dammit I want to debate................. LOL!

vdizenzo
08-05-2009, 07:20 PM
Yeah, raw benchers like Kaz, Arcidi, Henderson, Chabot, did tons of board work--not! However, it does have its place. For equipped benching I did lots of heavy board reps in the shirtl. It did nothing for me. This fall, I am going to listen to myself for a change. I used to be pretty good at that equipped thing a few years back. High boards will mostly be done raw and for reps.

NickAus
08-05-2009, 07:32 PM
Dammit I want to debate................. LOL!

Go for it Rob, we want to hear what you have to say!

bencher8
08-05-2009, 08:18 PM
For equipped benching I did lots of heavy board reps in the shirtl. It did nothing for me.

I had the opposite experience. I know that we were following similar routines for a while. Both of us got some tips from Ryan I think. I decided to follow ryans advice of doing 3 brd work in a shirt for doubles and heavy singles. This is supposed to equip the CNS to handle heavier weights and increase tricep strength.

I started doing 3 brd shirted for doubles and increased my lockout from 900+ to 1105....pretty decent increase I think. Raw was sstill 4-5 brds heavy before shirted work. Extensions were a minimal part of that...differnt things for different people I guess lol

vdizenzo
08-05-2009, 08:26 PM
For equipped benching I did lots of heavy board reps in the shirtl. It did nothing for me.

I had the opposite experience. I know that we were following similar routines for a while. Both of us got some tips from Ryan I think. I decided to follow ryans advice of doing 3 brd work in a shirt for doubles and heavy singles. This is supposed to equip the CNS to handle heavier weights and increase tricep strength.

I started doing 3 brd shirted for doubles and increased my lockout from 900+ to 1105....pretty decent increase I think. Raw was sstill 4-5 brds heavy before shirted work. Extensions were a minimal part of that...differnt things for different people I guess lol

I'll ask what everyone on Outlaws asks, what did Paul Key bench? I am not trying to be a douche, but has this paid off in a meet for you? I know it has worked for Ryan and Rob, but maybe we are not all Ryan and Rob.

Again, no offense is meant. I hope you hit a grand. Seriously, I wish everyone well even when I compete against them. I just hope I do more.

SEOINAGE
08-05-2009, 09:51 PM
I've been doing a more intense tricep exercise after dynamic bench, and extensions after my ME days. I rotate the 4 board with some other exercises, and it feeels like it helps my bench although it might be a bit overkill, I do like however that it gets me used to holding heavier poundages so when I do other lifts I don't get intimidated. It's interesting to hear that louie isn't really advocating 4/5 board press work. As a side note what are some people's favorite ME bench exercises?

Ryano
08-06-2009, 05:20 AM
I think if you lift heavy weight, you'll get stronger. Pretty simple if you ask me.

Rob Luyando
08-06-2009, 06:20 AM
Dam Vincent that was harsh! Pauls biggest problem is he doesn't do enough full range with straight weight when he misses a lift is almost alwways at the touching point. But he still has a 835 bench on the books so once again he is runner up to me as for the biggest bench on this board.

If 4 brd & 5 brd presses aren't caryin over to your equiped bench you may be doin something wrong of you just may be a diferent breed?

All in all a good debate and Paul Key got ripped on so my day is off to a good start.

Travis Bell
08-06-2009, 06:28 AM
If you start with a 135lb tri ext. and you increase that to a 225lb tri ext...your triceps got stronger..no doubt...but will that make you be able to lock out a bench press better? I dont think so.

Why not?


I used the analogy of squatting to prove the point. if I can do leg press with 225lb and increase that to 315lb my legs got stronger, but did it imporve my ability to squat more? I dont think so.

The problem with that analogy is that you're substituting leg press for squatting, which isn't really the thing in question here. Nobody is suggesting a person drop bench pressing and in turn use tricep extension work to increase their bench, so that's why that doesn't correlate.


I just think that OP asked if doing a 4 brd would be a good assistance exercise to build tri strength. Of course it would. Should he do it as a main exercise, no as he is benching raw, hje should focus on full range stuff and buld his weak points.

Just to re-state, I've never said that 4brds aren't good for tricep strength, what I'm arguing is that extension work is equally productive and less abusive to the joints.

Prior to comming to Westside a long time ago, I did get into 3brd work a lot and for a short period of time it did indeed really help my bench, but after awhile it just killed my elbows, shoulders and wrists. Because of some sloppy advice I had received at the time, I tore a pec doing a 3brd. Keep in mind I was a very beginner powerlifter at the time though so that probably added into it.

Actually now that I think about it, I did them frequently last summer when I was away from Westside for the summer and they did nothing for my bench. I was able to do about 655 off a 4brd and 585 off a 3brd. Didn't help a ton.


BTW...you should never do 4 brds, so Lou picked that right. Your t-rex arms would give you no ROM! lol a 4 brd for me is almost half my ROM lol

LOL This is true. My arms are very short so a 4brd would be a waste of time.

I'll use a good comparison now though since we're getting into the arm length debate. Greg has about as long a ROM as you do and he never does 4brd work. Always extension work.

vdizenzo
08-06-2009, 08:10 AM
Dam Vincent that was harsh! Pauls biggest problem is he doesn't do enough full range with straight weight when he misses a lift is almost alwways at the touching point. But he still has a 835 bench on the books so once again he is runner up to me as for the biggest bench on this board.

If 4 brd & 5 brd presses aren't caryin over to your equiped bench you may be doin something wrong of you just may be a diferent breed?

All in all a good debate and Paul Key got ripped on so my day is off to a good start.

Yes you and Paul have the top two equipped benches, but I have the top raw bench. So I feel my opinion does matter to some.

I was not trying to rip Paul, just making an observation that a 1000lb board press still did not yield a bigger bench. It's what's on the platform that counts. When I first benched 600, 700, and 800 in meets I had never even taken that weight in the gym to the chest or to boards. My best lifts were always in meets and I never had a problem with my cns. I worked lots of full range reps. Now working those heavy ass boards with the shirt has only yielded me a 765. Maybe after I have the shirt down I can work those boards.

I still maintain that board work is helpful for me. I just feel that now my triceps are getting more out of them when they are done raw and for high reps.

bencher8
08-06-2009, 11:10 AM
OK, vinnie, you got me lol The only return I have for that is that my triceps had still gotten stronger. My orblem in meets are two things:

1. Not taking enough full range lifts with straight weight
2. Technique issues.

These two problems have prohibited me from making a lot fo lifts. I am working on getting both fixed. I was using the 1000+ brd presses just as an example. My triceps have gotten stronger using high brds.

Thinking back to when I actually cared about raw benching, I dont think I did a lot of brd work. When I was at WSB, George and I went on a kick for raw. I ended up at 615, he got a 605(unitl a few weeks later, when he did a 625). So for full rom raw benching brds arent importnat, I will agree with that, but that wasnt the OP question.

So, if I continue to train this way and I get a 900 or 1000# bench in will that make my argument stronger? What if I do that and you go and get a 850 or 900 bench in? Will that make your argument stronger? lol who knows

oh, thanks for making robs day! I had been killing him lately in ripping and you go and do that lol

vdizenzo
08-06-2009, 11:26 AM
So for full rom raw benching brds arent importnat, I will agree with that, but that wasnt the OP question.



The op specifically said raw bench, that's what's so funny about this whole thing. I don't think half the posters ever read it.

Travis Bell
08-06-2009, 11:35 AM
I am training raw bench at the moment and of course I am weak at the bottom like most newbie benchers, so the lockout isn't really a huge problem. However, I am wondering whether 4-boards are still good as a major triceps accessory movement to be done for heavy sets of 6 or something like that.

This would be the OP

bencher8
08-06-2009, 12:00 PM
I read the OP question....and this is the actual question:

"However, I am wondering whether 4-boards are still good as a major triceps accessory movement to be done for heavy sets of 6 or something like that."

..not that he is a raw bencher. Thats not even a question lol

I read it again just to make sure. Im not sure how it got on equipped benching, but all I did was answer that I though 4 brds would be a good tricep strength movement for reps of 6 or so....then everybody said he would be better served to do extensions. I disagreed and here we are....

I had to do the copy and paste thing, since I am not cool enough to know how to do the bold parts of the quote..

vdizenzo
08-06-2009, 12:10 PM
So for full rom raw benching brds arent importnat

Wow your logic is dizzying. Me am so confused. I can't wait to see you spin this one. You know what, I'll just let you be right. You win.

bencher8
08-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Im not trying to be right...Im trying to answer the question. You cut my response in half vin. For full rom benching, 4 brds would not be an important ME exercise, but he didnt ask that. He asked specifically about 4 brds as an ACCESSORY movement

You can get pissy if you want, but you tried to say that I didnt read the question, then said that he specifically asked about raw benching(which is true, but only a certain part of raw benching), then travis bolded the quote, but the wrong part. Hell, the part that was bolded wasnt even a question, much less the one he asked.

then I am being told I am spinning things?

whatever, you guys like extensions in this case, I dont. I hope the OP got something out of it....i tried to answer as best I could.

bencher8
08-06-2009, 12:36 PM
I dunno, I think I might need to do more compound pressing b/c all these extensions are starting to wear on my elbows a bit.


and this is the OP giving us more information. You guys still think he should do more extension(on top of what he does now) even though his elbows already are bothering him?

Hazerboy
08-06-2009, 12:37 PM
I just looked at the last 4 or 5 posts and the times they were posted... Seriously?? 8 AM? 1:30 PM? Shouldn't you old dudes be at work or something, instead of debating benching here?? I at least have an excuse for why I post at all hours of the day - I'm a college student, its summer, and working 4 hours a day barely counts as a job! XD

vdizenzo
08-06-2009, 12:37 PM
He asked specifically about 4 brds as an ACCESSORY movement



Quick question, what is the ACCESSORYmovement for?

As far as the rest of the crap goes, I'll have you know I have not eaten at all today, nor have I had any fluids. I still have about 6 lbs to cut. I'm pissy as all hell. I think your catching the brunt of it. It's all good. We are good benchers and have some different theories and practices. I hope you bench a grand. I really hope you know that. I just want a pr.

vdizenzo
08-06-2009, 12:42 PM
I just looked at the last 4 or 5 posts and the times they were posted... Seriously?? 8 AM? 1:30 PM? Shouldn't you old dudes be at work or something, instead of debating benching here?? I at least have an excuse for why I post at all hours of the day - I'm a college student, its summer, and working 4 hours a day barely counts as a job! XD

I'm a teacher. Unlike you I get paid to go to school and I don't have to work in the summer. Life is good!

bencher8
08-06-2009, 12:43 PM
haha no problem. I see now why we are having an issue....no food and no fluids for me and I wouldnt even be able to talk to you...

I dont have any problems...99% of the time I agree with what you and Travis say. I didnt with this one, but that is the good thing about the forum. At least the OP got some help from some top lifters. He could have looked in a BB article to try and get info, like I had to and prolly a lot of us old guys had too lol

gatorman2k6
08-06-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm a teacher. Unlike you I get paid to go to school and I don't have to work in the summer. Life is good!

Never knew you were a teacher. What do you teach? Sorry for being off topic.

Travis Bell
08-06-2009, 03:40 PM
LOL this is crazy. Paul the guy is RAW BENCH pressing correct? He's wondering if they are a good movement to increase his RAW BENCH correct?

Even you said a ways back that for raw full range bench, 4brd isn't really beneficial. (which I'd agree with)

Just because someone's elbows hurt isn't a reason to pick a useless exercise (for their said purpose), just back off the extensions is all or perhaps use some ice.

Ah well, either way I feel like this is spinning in circles at this point.

JSully
08-06-2009, 04:03 PM
What about 3boards? Would they be beneficial? IMO 4board doesn't give enough ROM to be very beneficial, but I'm new to the "training for a big bench" game..

I have a fake elbow due to a skateboarding accident 12 years ago so heavy extension work ****ing hurts, but pressong does not.

I bench RAW and I have no problem getting it off my chest but I stall out when my triceps take over (which you can see from the bench section of my USAPL vid). Would 3 boards as an accessory help increase my overall RAW bench?

Sorry to hijack, I know we're talking about 4boards, but I didn't really want to start another thread because of one 2" board.. lol..

OGROK
08-06-2009, 05:02 PM
Yeah I am not planning on using 4brds as a max. I am talking about as a heavy 4-8 rep assistance exercise for general tricep strength, similar to how you would use a JM press or close-grips.

Sounds like some of you think extensions are always better and some of you hate extensions. I might need a break from these though because I have some slight elbow pain in my left elbow that needs to heal up and extensions seem to make it worse.

I am also still a little confused now about how much emphasis I should be putting on shoulders. Since my raw bench is weak at the bottom, should most of my assistance work be shoulder/pec type movements (flat dbs, cambereds, etc...), and less tricep work like you guys are doing? Right now all my ME work is low end stuff.

Rob Luyando
08-06-2009, 06:34 PM
Dam I get to throw in two more cents worth............ When I was talking heavy brds (4&5) I didnt specify but that training is done raw with the exception of wrist wraps. Will it help your lock out weather you compete raw or equiped? Yes no stronger exercise for lock out. I don't do high brds in equipment.

Vincent I love you! Your opinoin does matter you have a freaky raw bench I will give you that but your not as near as sexy as me!

bencher8
08-06-2009, 07:35 PM
yes travis, he is talking about his RAWW bench here, but here is the problem travis(and try and keep up with this part) he is asking about the movement for his tricep strength after his main bench movement...ie accessory movement. I agree the 4 brd should not be his main movement, but it is the best movement for increasing his tricep strength...what is so dang hard to follow about that? Then he goes on to say twice in this thread that his elbows are already hurting......extensions should be done more?

either way I am done....not sure how this got twisted up, it seems like an easy question to answer

slashkills
08-06-2009, 08:08 PM
Yeah I am not planning on using 4brds as a max. I am talking about as a heavy 4-8 rep assistance exercise for general tricep strength, similar to how you would use a JM press or close-grips.

Sounds like some of you think extensions are always better and some of you hate extensions. I might need a break from these though because I have some slight elbow pain in my left elbow that needs to heal up and extensions seem to make it worse.

I am also still a little confused now about how much emphasis I should be putting on shoulders. Since my raw bench is weak at the bottom, should most of my assistance work be shoulder/pec type movements (flat dbs, cambereds, etc...), and less tricep work like you guys are doing? Right now all my ME work is low end stuff.

Ive read that vincent really put a lot of emphasis on shoulder strength for a good bench. you should be doing a ton of tricep work because thats the main muscle in benching. But you should also be doing lat and shoulder work. Most power lifters dont feel they need extra pec work because benching is enough. Just make sure you are hitting every muscle group involved in benching and i think your good. Every one responds to different exercises differently so find things that work for you.

NickAus
08-06-2009, 09:26 PM
Thanks guys it is great to hear top lifters debate!
I do think his question was about the best triceps strength builder as an accessory and we got to hear different opinions on that.