Anit-Government Militias on the rise

[BigCorey75]

http://news.aol.com/article/us-militia-groups-growing/613952

interesting story.


There have always been nut jobs like this around, hell they have one here in Texas called "The West Texas Militia" a group of right wing gun toting wackos who believe Texas should succeed from the union, apparently they are stuck in 1845.

This in interesting, yet in retrospect not surprising, to see this type of thing happening.

Now to each his own, these guys feel the need i just believe they are bat **** crazy. But I always have just one question for these guys.

If the government does come after you in some way, how will you defend yourself? Sure you have an AR15 or whatever, but the government has these little things called Tomahawk Missiles, and M1A1 Abraham Tanks last time I checked they had a tad more fire power than an AR15.

People like this entertain me....lol

[sharkall2003]

We need someone to do something. We either get half-******ed republicans in office that don't do **** but say "let's go kill some people" or we get some douche bag liberal who says they are going to fix everything and can't get **** done either. Go MILITIA! Maybe we'll get our real freedoms back.

[BigCorey75]

Ha ha, True


The problem with government is that the politicians forget that they are working for the people and they get in office and uptake the own agendas and there own agenda becomes getting their political party in the main power and reelected. It has little to do, although it should, with getting policies in place that will help the American public as a whole. This leads to very little cooperation and smearing of each others campaigns and fear tactics and spreading of misinformation aka lying, call it what it is, in an effort to gain political position and advantage to keep certain ones in power so they can collect their checks from lobby group. Scratch a lie find a thief like my grandma always said.

One thing I can give the republicans credit for, they are united. You can go from one republican to the next and you will get the same answer and the same view point basically, there is no division between them. The Democrats I don't think, sadly, haven't figured this out yet. You got your liberal Democrats, your Moderates, and your "Blue Dog" Conservatives in the party. Obama is catching more flack from his own party about trying to pass any type of real reform which to me is amazing in showing how they cant even work with each other let alone against the republicans.

Bush had full support for the most part from all Republicans who dominated the congress basically all of his presidency minus the last two years when the dems took control. He had horrible ideas that he got passed through, preemptive war, privatizing social security, lower taxes on the rich, funding faith based initiatives ect. the only one they rejected was when he tried to appoint his cleaning lady to the supreme court.

Obama has better ideas imo, reforming health care to make it affordable for everyone including small business, environmental regulations, regulations of the financial markets to stop predatory lending, funding more science and stem cell research, attempting to close Guantanamo and the only thing he has been able to enact so far is a sit down beer with an egotistical police officer and egotistical professor whom got involved in a situation that got overblown, and attempting the verbally repeal don't ask don't tell, all while we are losing valuable members of our military just because they are gay.

He seems to have just one party in his way from passing and real reform, and unfortunately it is his own. I would be amazed to see the republic party split on issues, they are a united front and they don't divided from each other and they stand for something... Armageddon, but its something. The Democrats can take a page out of that book and actually have an impact on this nation but they are to busy bickering between each other and trying to jockey for position instead of doing what we voted them in office for which is to work for us.

[blackboard]

Last thing I want is some extreme militia group trying to take over the government especially being a brother. Most have their own agenda and the bad economy isn't close to being reason # 1. If you don't like the US way of life the door is always open.

[Genacide]

He had horrible ideas that he got passed through, preemptive war, privatizing social security, lower taxes on the rich, funding faith based initiatives ect. the only one they rejected was when he tried to appoint his cleaning lady to the supreme court.


Waaaaa?

[sharkall2003]

I won't mind the liberals when they pass gay marriage for all, and allow me to smoke marijuana legally. All this "it's my body I can do what I want" is a bunch of bull crap. At least conservatives say "you can't do what you want" and then don't let people get married, smoke, drink (in some states), abortions, etc. Liberals are just plain stupid about it. Sure, you can have an abortion, but not get married. Sure you can drink yourself to death, but you can't smoke a blunt.

I'm with you, at least conservatives are united. Liberals need to be real liberals.

[BigCorey75]

Waaaaa?

this

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Social_Security_privatization

and this

http://zfacts.com/p/486.html

one more for good measure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_(United_States)


and one to grow on

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/04/defining_the_so.html

Luckily it didn't pass, yet

[CrazyK]

Waaaaa?Privatizing social security can and will always be a joke. Not to mention that there are already a vast variety of private options for social security, check: 401-k/pensions.

Corey...I wouldn't say that groups like these could not be a threat. Home grown terrorism is very difficult to fight.

[blackboard]

I'm sorry but conservatives aren't united, they don't even have a leader. They teach personal responsibility but whenever there is a mess up from their part, " He isn't a true conservative is always the excuse. Don't get me started on the anti gay bunch who turns out to be gay or the party the religious guys turn to yet prostitution, cheating, tapping ones foot at the airport really would make god proud. I don't call united crying about birth certificates, comparing our President to Hitler, bringing guns by town hall meeting, or having Sarah Palin as one of the top 2012 leaders, I call it crazy.


Carry on

[sexysuperspy]

Well at least they are doing something about it and not just talking........I lived in MI and one day I walked into the mall and noticed "I" was the minority!! The Clarion Fund sheds some interesting light if you want to investigate more. I want to at least be informed and not walk around blind!

[BigCorey75]

I won't mind the liberals when they pass gay marriage for all, and allow me to smoke marijuana legally. All this "it's my body I can do what I want" is a bunch of bull crap. At least conservatives say "you can't do what you want" and then don't let people get married, smoke, drink (in some states), abortions, etc. Liberals are just plain stupid about it. Sure, you can have an abortion, but not get married. Sure you can drink yourself to death, but you can't smoke a blunt.

I'm with you, at least conservatives are united. Liberals need to be real liberals.

This is because there are no real true liberals in positions of power. They are nothing more than conservatives trying to appear liberal. It what makes me laugh the most when people say obama is a socialist. Im like socialst? hes not even liberal, he doesnt approve of gay marriage, gave large sums of money to big companies, and is not spear heading environmental and industry regulations.

Whats crazy I believe just as the conservatives have some great ideas such as lower taxes, smaller government and free enterprises these are great venues and should be worked towards and they have lots of people in power to argue there stances.

And as well as that Liberals have great ideas, social freedoms such as gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, minor forms of gun control, separation of church and state and health care reform. Which I honestly believe most Americans agree with to some extent but there is no major voice in position to argue these points intelligently with some validity and fact.

There are a few guys out there like Nader, Chomsky, and Dawkins just to name a few but when on TV they are made to look like whacked out buffoons instead of intelligent people, which they are, and there points are thrown to the side. Now i will give you these aren't exactly the most charismatic, or powerfully speaking men in the world but there positions of argument should not be cast to the side as mere child speak.


As I've said before, until we get a stronger voice for the other spectrum of America only can we get some compromise of well balance policies.

[BigCorey75]

I'm sorry but conservatives aren't united, they don't even have a leader. They teach personal responsibility but whenever there is a mess up from their part, " He isn't a true conservative is always the excuse. Don't get me started on the anti gay bunch who turns out to be gay or the party the religious guys turn to yet prostitution, cheating, tapping ones foot at the airport really would make god proud. I don't call united crying about birth certificates, comparing our President to Hitler, bringing guns by town hall meeting, or having Sarah Palin as one of the top 2012 leaders, I call it crazy.


Carry on

Like i said, they stand for Armageddon, but they stand for something

[BigCorey75]

Privatizing social security can and will always be a joke. Not to mention that there are already a vast variety of private options for social security, check: 401-k/pensions.

Corey...I wouldn't say that groups like these could not be a threat. Home grown terrorism is very difficult to fight.

Oh I know these groups can be a threat. Not to the government because of military backing, but more a threat to society. Just the same with extremist groups all over the world they are often more a threat to the society they swear to uphold than the governments they oppose.

Its times like this where we as a people need to be more united yet we remain more divided than ever. This is the true problem.

I like a quote Obama said in one of his town meetings he attended "Its ok to disagree, but lets disagree on the facts and not misinformation and fear tactics". Thats what I see a lot people shouting fear tactics and mongering but no one arguing facts within the system. A sign again of people worry about political affiliation more than their own interest, they care more about keeping there people in office than what there people in office are actually doing. I voted primarily democrat in the past election, that's why I'm pissed at them for failing to work for the people and pass reform as they promised in the election, they are more worried about their own agenda more than they are the people, the people should be their main agenda but obviously we are not

[Genacide]

this

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Social_Security_privatization

and this

http://zfacts.com/p/486.html

one more for good measure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_(United_States)


and one to grow on

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/04/defining_the_so.html

Luckily it didn't pass, yet

Your post had indicated that it already had passed.

[Genacide]

Privatizing social security can and will always be a joke. Not to mention that there are already a vast variety of private options for social security, check: 401-k/pensions.


Now if I could only take the money that was being taken out of my check going to SS and rather put it into my Roth IRA, man o man.

[sharkall2003]

I voted primarily libertarian and conservative. We know that libertarians don't have a chance and conservatives piss me off because they are too involved socially. Politics=Money. Lets keep it that way and stay the hell out of my life.

[sharkall2003]

Now if I could only take the money that was being taken out of my check going to SS and rather put it into my Roth IRA, man o man.

You mean the 6.2%. And what about the 1.45% for HI. I could really use those extra hundreds to thousands of dollars a year.

[hellagrant]

If the government does come after you in some way, how will you defend yourself? Sure you have an AR15 or whatever, but the government has these little things called Tomahawk Missiles, and M1A1 Abraham Tanks last time I checked they had a tad more fire power than an AR15.

People like this entertain me....lol

I am concerned that if militias mobilize, they will act like terrorists. Setting off bombs, finding among the public, etc. You are right, it aint like 1780 or whatever. Where it was musket vs musket. It is now rifle vs high tech precision missle.

[CrazyK]

Now if I could only take the money that was being taken out of my check going to SS and rather put it into my Roth IRA, man o man.Unfortunately not every citizen has that option or the ability to invest in a Roth IRA. Thus a plan that keeps elderly individuals eating is put in place. A society without social security that has the ability to uphold one is evil and worthy of destruction by it's neighbors.

[muscled]

You mean the 6.2%. And what about the 1.45% for HI. I could really use those extra hundreds to thousands of dollars a year.

Sharky, wtf ya been? Thought you must have dropped off the face of the Earth, pal. Good to see you back.


Uhhh, go militia. Yay politics! And what not....

[sharkall2003]

Sharky, wtf ya been? Thought you must have dropped off the face of the Earth, pal. Good to see you back.


Uhhh, go militia. Yay politics! And what not....

I'm doing great. Have my life back, back at the gym. Turned 21 (it's been downhill in that respect.....), I'm engaged and have my journal started here at WBB. Thanks.

[BigCorey75]

Your post had indicated that it already had passed.

ah ok, sorry for the mix up

Hellagrant- thats what i mean how these militias become more dangerous to the society they claim to uphold, if things like this did happen, then the government would have to step in, in order to uphold the law and safety of the citizen, or we declare martial law and shoot back, then it goes down hill from there

Genacide- that would be nice to be able to do that, but unfortunately as im sure you know SS wasn't designed to work in that fashion, and trying to rehaul that just as the largest generation is about to hit that bubble would be very catasrophic on many levels so i have to agree with CrazyK on this one

[Mercuryblade]

Well at least they are doing something about it and not just talking........I lived in MI and one day I walked into the mall and noticed "I" was the minority!! The Clarion Fund sheds some interesting light if you want to investigate more. I want to at least be informed and not walk around blind!

Oh noes!!!
I hope you called the police, I'm glad you made it out of the mall alive.

[sharkall2003]

Unfortunately not every citizen has that option or the ability to invest in a Roth IRA. Thus a plan that keeps elderly individuals eating is put in place. A society without social security that has the ability to uphold one is evil and worthy of destruction by it's neighbors.

Is it evil? Or is it evil to place such a burden on the younger generation that they are literally indebted up to our eyeballs to some of our greatest threats like China? Is it evil to make the young pay for the poor when the young are starting out 20-30k in debt minimum for school, have more expenses, etc. Is it evil to assume that because one did not save for their old age that the young are now obligated to pay for them?

[CrazyK]

Is it evil? Or is it evil to place such a burden on the younger generation that they are literally indebted up to our eyeballs to some of our greatest threats like China? Is it evil to make the young pay for the poor when the young are starting out 20-30k in debt minimum for school, have more expenses, etc. Is it evil to assume that because one did not save for their old age that the young are now obligated to pay for them?Greatest threats like China? I don't think you understand how these things work... "China" doesn't invest in T-notes, bills, bonds etc... Private investors and institutional investors do, some of which just happen to reside in China. Let's not forget that China is the USA's best trading partner. This isn't the Reagan era anymore.

One does not pay for others exactly under social security. One invests and takes out exactly what they put in plus a return. So no...if a given citizen lives past retirement age then that citizen will take out what he has put in and not pay for others.

Now for your last point...how does a widowed mother with 3 kids afford to save for retirement? Just one example as to why it is evil not to have such a system.

[VikingWarlord]

At least conservatives say "you can't do what you want" and then don't let people get married, smoke, drink (in some states), abortions, etc.

So very incorrect. Republicans say that.

The truly conservative believe that the government has no place in the personal business of others. Republican != conservative. Everyone would do well to remember that.

[sharkall2003]

Greatest threats like China? I don't think you understand how these things work... "China" doesn't invest in T-notes, bills, bonds etc... Private investors and institutional investors do, some of which just happen to reside in China. Let's not forget that China is the USA's best trading partner. This isn't the Reagan era anymore.

One does not pay for others exactly under social security. One invests and takes out exactly what they put in plus a return. So no...if a given citizen lives past retirement age then that citizen will take out what he has put in and not pay for others.

Now for your last point...how does a widowed mother with 3 kids afford to save for retirement? Just one example as to why it is evil not to have such a system.

You get what you put in plus some? Hahahaha, what a crock of ****. My dad is the biggest mooch of social security I have ever seen. He worked for 12 years (18-30) approximately. He made less than 30,000 per year and was in a car accident. He has been collecting 1500/month for 12 years now. That's 216,000 dollars. If you even take my father making 360,000 in his life and having to pay in approximately 6.2% of that, then he contributed ~$22,230. His return is absolutely phenomenal. But lets not forget, he'll get that same amount until he dies. You know what's even worse? He can work, but chooses not to. So, if you think someone isn't paying for my father, then you, sir, are in complete denial or have no idea what's going on.

By the way, I know entire groups of people that are doing the same thing my dad does.

[sharkall2003]

So very incorrect. Republicans say that.

The truly conservative believe that the government has no place in the personal business of others. Republican != conservative. Everyone would do well to remember that.

Conservatives in America that you talk about are called Libertarians. If we want to get into specifics you would be correct, but the way that the majority of Americans think it's not like that. Liberal equals democrat and conservative equals republican to most people.

[BilltheButcher]

I like a quote Obama said in one of his town meetings he attended "Its ok to disagree, but lets disagree on the facts and not misinformation and fear tactics". Thats what I see a lot people shouting fear tactics and mongering but no one arguing facts within the system.

Has anyone been looking at the videos? Its usually if not always a senior citizen - who the heck is afraid of that - and what fear tactics? Shouting - people being angry at their politician? At the town meeting the only group to threaten someone with bodily harm was from the union - I actually saw 30 somethings shouting down some 70 yr old lady - so I would take things with a grain of salt coming from Obama, Pelosi, or Reid.

Misinformation? There is mis-information because this administration is incapable of communicating their health care plan. Why? Because they do not have a plan that they have agreed on. So we have President Obama pushing a plan that does not exist and forcing Congress to create something in a hurry and to pass it in a hurry. Whats the hurry?

[Mercuryblade]

what fear tactics?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090811/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_swastika

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/23/betsy-mccaughey/mccaughey-claims-end-life-counseling-will-be-requi/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/10/sarah-palin/sarah-palin-barack-obama-death-panel/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/07/john-boehner/boehner-says-democrats-health-care-plan-would-lead/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/07/liberty-counsel/school-health-clinics-would-not-provide-abortions/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/06/club-growth/club-growths-health-care-ad-campaign-misleading/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/30/chain-email/no-free-health-care-illegal-immigrants-health-bill/

[BigCorey75]

China is not a threat, they are our biggest trading partner and you never spark war with a trading partner, free trade was the one thing that ended hundreds of years of war between England and France, And also do a tad more research on SS, you get back proportionately what you put into it plus some. Trust me some one like Bill Gates would get more out of SS, if he withdrew it, than my father would because he put more into it.


So you put what you have into it and this pays those before you, and as you place more into it it builds for you and your account (hint: SS numbers) and once your ready to withdraw you have some to withdraw from. And its funded by each subsequent generation. The problem people are trying to foresee is that the generation now that is beginning to enter the system to withdraw on their SS (50-69 baby boomers) is way larger than the generation that is adding the most to it,(40-49) and our generation (20-29) are the next largest but as of now our income stream does not match that of the 40-49 generation per capita sorta speak.

This is another huge reason for health care reform as an attempt to lower the cost of health care. If the cost of health care go down, so will the cost of medicare and medicaid, two of the largest portions of the cost, and it will make things more affordable and lessen the strain on the system.

note these figures arent exact just a representation:

Say a person has to take 1000 a month in SS and out of that 1000, 600 of it is medicare to cover medical cost prescriptions and such if you can lower that medicare to say 400 a month, thats 200 dollars less per month and 2400 dollars per year that you have to spend on medicare.

now look at this link this is where im getting the next set of demographic numbers from

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-10-08-boomers_N.htm

it states 3.2 million baby boomers will begin to qualify and draw on medicare in 2011

do the math 3.2 million x 200 = 640millon dollars per month or 7.68 billion dollars that year that can be saved, and project that across 20 years that the baby boomers will flood the system. 80 million total, 2400 saved per year 19.2 billion per year or 3.84 trillion that could saved over 20 years with some attempt to try and find a way to cut health care cost. They have doubled in 10 years, baby boomers will flood the market for about 20 years, so lets double that cost twice for 20 years so instead of 600 a month from medicare 20 years from now when im 45, the cost from medicare goes to 1800 per month (again demographics are from website, cost numbers are for illustration) so 1800x12=21,600 extra per person per year x 80 million thats 1,728,000,000,000 potentially 1.728 quadrillion dollars extra that would have to be pumped into the system to keep it thriving for the pay out.

ok let me make a disclaimer this is just a demonstration of what could happen if there is a way to find to cut the cost of health care, vs letting it continue on its same path. The 3.2 million and 80 million are direct stats drawn from the link. The 1000, and 600 and 200 dollars saved are just representative numbers of what can happen with a proposed 30% reduction in cost of health care, and i used those numbers for the sake of easy math, these are NOT EXACT TOTALS!! these are just used for representations and I know this is not a perfect system not accounting for deaths and those who wont draw on the system and a lot of other factors this is just an estimate of the perfect yet worst case scenario, and to give you an idea of what the problem with SS can be and what it could be even worse if health care cost are not controlled

[BigCorey75]

Has anyone been looking at the videos? Its usually if not always a senior citizen - who the heck is afraid of that - and what fear tactics? Shouting - people being angry at their politician? At the town meeting the only group to threaten someone with bodily harm was from the union - I actually saw 30 somethings shouting down some 70 yr old lady - so I would take things with a grain of salt coming from Obama, Pelosi, or Reid.

Misinformation? There is mis-information because this administration is incapable of communicating their health care plan. Why? Because they do not have a plan that they have agreed on. So we have President Obama pushing a plan that does not exist and forcing Congress to create something in a hurry and to pass it in a hurry. Whats the hurry?

They haven't Agreed on this because the party is divided and not united.

If Bush would have come up with a plan like this while he had majority house rule do you think the republicans would have that same problem in getting the party behind the idea?

**** no they wouldn't, they would have gotten it passed the same way they got other things passed.

From my understanding the plan is some 1200 pages long and they have had a long time to read the plan and review it or at least have someone do it to get some feedback from it. So i fault them for not reading the plan and getting something put together that's more concise and thats where the Democrats **** up in comparisons with the Republicans they are not a united front.

Bush went to war with out full backing of Congress, Geneva or the UN, and it has cost this nation massive amounts of money and soldier casualties. Yet we cant even get the "party of change" on the same page to pass a piece of legislation that would actually help the nation if properly argued and presented in a logical manner.

I do blame them for that one. Obama let us know what the plan is. I understand the public option, but apparently millions of Americans don't let us know exactly what it is.

But why all this "we need proof of a plan" Over half of America cant find Iraq or Afghanistan on the globe, nor know what a true "Weapon of Mass Destruction" yet were behind the war because of fear tactics.

The same form of tactics by calling Euthanasia Counseling, and Terminal Patient Care "Death Panels". The same way "We don't want a government bureaucrat between you and your doctor" while an insurance bureaucrat is already between you and your doctor. The are calling Public Option a "government take over of health care" and no one likes it when the government takes over. God I wish so much of this country wasn't so ****ing ******ed :bang: :bash: :swear:

[sharkall2003]

Big Corey, you're not getting what I'm saying. There are hundreds of thousands of people like my father that completely abuse the crap out of SS like my father. My dad is not getting back what he put in proportionally. He is getting more than 30x back if he lives to just around 60. I'm not saying social security doesn't serve some practical purposes, but don't give me some lame "widow with 3 kids" bull**** when there are just as many people that are on the complete other end of the spectrum that get it.

[sharkall2003]

And Bill Gates will not get a whole lot back. Why? Because Social Security compensation is taxed at fairly high percentages for a second time when you are of retirement age. Social Security is largely for the poor so they don't bitch and complain too much.

Edit: It's only taxed at a high rate depending on your compensation upon retirement.

[BigCorey75]

Oh i understand your point about your dad drawing off of the system hell i have a number of Cousins that do the same damn thing, and others doing the same but this cost is kinda unavoidable unless you want to enact some form of legislation like a person below a certain age would have to continue to proove they cant work and such.

There is not such thing as a perfect system people will always take advantage of it in some way fashion or form, but for the most part the system works, could afford to be tweaked here and there and evolved to fit the newer age but as far as overhauling and make it completely private.

The 1500 bucks per month you father gets doesn't bother me as much as the 20k my parents lost a piece in one year off of the 401k the 60k collectively my aunt and uncle lost in that same year as well as the value of both homes dropping below the amount paid for them, this is money my folks and hard working relatives put into their account in a private entity that was lost because the market fails due to faulty practices at the top. People getting chump change from SS doesn't bother me as much as other people ****ing people out of their hard earned money that they entrusted them with to build their private retirement funds, that they will never get back. To me SS is the necessary evil of society to pay for itself, but I'm more concerned with issues that affect middle class and working people. I don't worry about poor people they will be poor cant worry about that. I'm worried about industry regulations and barriers to entry of industries for young entrepreneurs and such, I would love to have a small business where i can afford to give my employees health coverage or at least I can pay them enough to where they can easily afford their own insurance. At the rate things are going now who knows what is going to happen

[sharkall2003]

Oh i understand your point about your dad drawing off of the system hell i have a number of Cousins that do the same damn thing, and others doing the same but this cost is kinda unavoidable unless you want to enact some form of legislation like a person below a certain age would have to continue to proove they cant work and such.

There is not such thing as a perfect system people will always take advantage of it in some way fashion or form, but for the most part the system works, could afford to be tweaked here and there and evolved to fit the newer age but as far as overhauling and make it completely private.

The 1500 bucks per month you father gets doesn't bother me as much as the 20k my parents lost a piece in one year off of the 401k the 60k collectively my aunt and uncle lost in that same year as well as the value of both homes dropping below the amount paid for them, this is money my folks and hard working relatives put into their account in a private entity that was lost because the market fails due to faulty practices at the top. People getting chump change from SS doesn't bother me as much as other people ****ing people out of their hard earned money that they entrusted them with to build their private retirement funds, that they will never get back. To me SS is the necessary evil of society to pay for itself, but I'm more concerned with issues that affect middle class and working people. I don't worry about poor people they will be poor cant worry about that. I'm worried about industry regulations and barriers to entry of industries for young entrepreneurs and such, I would love to have a small business where i can afford to give my employees health coverage or at least I can pay them enough to where they can easily afford their own insurance. At the rate things are going now who knows what is going to happen

You and I have talked about this extensively in the past and largely agree. You just feel the government should have slightly more regulation.

And you know I would be fine with the government running programs if they didn't mess up everyone they ran.

[BilltheButcher]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090811/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_swastika

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/23/betsy-mccaughey/mccaughey-claims-end-life-counseling-will-be-requi/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/10/sarah-palin/sarah-palin-barack-obama-death-panel/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/07/john-boehner/boehner-says-democrats-health-care-plan-would-lead/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/07/liberty-counsel/school-health-clinics-would-not-provide-abortions/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/06/club-growth/club-growths-health-care-ad-campaign-misleading/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/30/chain-email/no-free-health-care-illegal-immigrants-health-bill/

I took fear tactics to be actual fear of physical harm at the town hall meetings. But I have been looking at that site and doesn't it seem like it is skewed to you? I am not completely positive this site isn't partisan or they cherry pick the stories they want to cover. Either way the links you posted - are good and are fear tactics, but nothing the Democrats have not done themselves and from what has been reported the only group handing out beatdowns are Obama supporters.

"In Mehlville, Mo., St. Louis police arrested six people, some on assault charges, outside another forum that was billed as a meeting on aging but was attended by activists on both sides of the health care debate.
According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the police showed up toward the end of the forum held by Democratic Rep. Russ Carnahan. One conservative activist, interviewed at a local emergency room where he was being treated for injuries, said he was attacked by some of the individuals who were arrested as he passed out "Don't tread on me" flags." - In Missouri, members of the SEIU were arrested for assaulting health care opponents.

"Top White House officials counseled Democratic senators Thursday on coping with disruptions at public events on health care this summer, officials said, and promised the party and allies would respond with twice the force if any individual lawmaker is criticized in television advertising."

"In Tampa, Florida, 1,500 people showed up at a town meeting which was supposed to feature Rep. Kathy Castor (D-Fla.), which was organized by a local state representative, and co-sponsored by SEIU and Obama's Organizing for America. Local papers report that supporters of Obama's health-care plan were vastly outnumbered by opponents. The prime seats in the hall were reportedly given to Democratic party activists and SEIU union members who were let in through a back door, and that those in the front of the line never got in. One participant, who displayed bruises and contusions on a YouTube video, said he'd been attacked by a union member."

"In St. Louis, Missouri, over 1,000 people, mostly opponents of the Obama plan, were locked out of Rep. Russ Carnahan's town meeting Thursday night, while Carnahan's staff were letting SEIU members in through the "handicapped" entrance. A conservative black activist was reported attacked and beaten by union members, both black and white. Six people, including a St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter, were arrested outside the meeting, two on suspicion of assault on the black activist."

[BigCorey75]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342653428074782.html


Great article i just read and have been saying myself about Obama's pitch to his health care reform and where he is missing.

IMO he needs to pull a Bush and dumb it down a little. Hes a bright guy and I think he overestimates the intelligence of this nation severely. The nation that believes Harry Potter is great literature, Batman Returns is a profound look into the human psyche and the Earth is 6000 years old

[Mercuryblade]

But I have been looking at that site and doesn't it seem like it is skewed to you? I am not completely positive this site isn't partisan or they cherry pick the stories they want to cover.


They are more than willing to criticize Obama:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/barack-obama/statements/

As for cherry picking, I think it's more of a result of the left's lack of any kind of big media figures that draw much publicity. Name a liberal equivalent of Michelle Bachman, Rush Limbaugh etc.

[CrazyK]

You get what you put in plus some? Hahahaha, what a crock of ****. My dad is the biggest mooch of social security I have ever seen. He worked for 12 years (18-30) approximately. He made less than 30,000 per year and was in a car accident. He has been collecting 1500/month for 12 years now. That's 216,000 dollars. If you even take my father making 360,000 in his life and having to pay in approximately 6.2% of that, then he contributed ~$22,230. His return is absolutely phenomenal. But lets not forget, he'll get that same amount until he dies. You know what's even worse? He can work, but chooses not to. So, if you think someone isn't paying for my father, then you, sir, are in complete denial or have no idea what's going on.

By the way, I know entire groups of people that are doing the same thing my dad does.Then he collects Social Security Disability. This does not equal Social Security for retirement. I suggest you educate yourself some more before taking a stance on such a topic.

[CrazyK]

You and I have talked about this extensively in the past and largely agree. You just feel the government should have slightly more regulation.

And you know I would be fine with the government running programs if they didn't mess up everyone they ran.Right. Since police, fire departments and the postal service are running a muck.

21 year old idealogues are quite funny.

[BigCorey75]

lol, even tho im not a particular fan of the police i still have to laugh...lol

[twm]

let's all bury our heads in the sand & hope for the best

[Altephor]

If the government does come after you in some way, how will you defend yourself? Sure you have an AR15 or whatever, but the government has these little things called Tomahawk Missiles, and M1A1 Abraham Tanks last time I checked they had a tad more fire power than an AR15.




To be fair, the 'Americans' during the American Revolution were a bunch of farmers against the most sophisticated and well trained army in the world.

Doesn't make these people less crazy, however.

[BigCorey75]

hahah truem but there is a large difference in the sophistication of weaponry were talking about

[sharkall2003]

Right. Since police, fire departments and the postal service are running a muck.

21 year old idealogues are quite funny.

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