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damo50
08-17-2009, 01:16 AM
Hi Guys,

Fairly new to the lifting game and been doing heaps of research and just want to get a bit of an opinion on what im currently doing.

Im about 6"1 weigh about 74 kg, Have recently come down from about 80 kgs in the last 6 weeks, which is when i first changed my diet to try lose a bit of weight and body fat. Basically im a fairly skinny build but managed to build up a decent beer gut! which i have managed to mostly get rid of by changing my diet to no crappy foods and no weeknight drinking !

My current schedule is

Breakfast 8:00 am - Oatmeal or Nutri grain Cereal.

Snack 10:30 am - Banana or Apple oryoghurt

Lunch 12:00pm - Chicken and Salad Wholemeal Roll

Snack 3:00pm - Muesli Bar or protein shake

Work out 4:30pm - Shake of Pineapple juice and egg whites after workout

Dinner 6:00pm - Depends what has been cooked ;) Try not to have any carbs after 5 though.

Protein shake before Bed.

Does this sound ok? I workout Monday tuesday rest wednesday and train thursday friday. I am doing WBB1.1 workout atm.

I am still trying to get body fat down a little bit because of the sort of flabby gut but i want to build muscle a bit aswell.. And i know that you cannot do the both at once. I worked out my meals to equate to around 2100 - 2500 calories for the day which is below and close to maintenance. Eating like this has done well for me to lose the weight so far, but i dont know if this is going to be a good diet for me now while lifting to gain ?

Any thoughts or insights on what im doing here? Any input is appreciated and if you need any more info please ask. Sorry for the novel! Edit: also im thinking of getting some multi Vitamins are these worth taking?

Cheers

Damien

Joe Black
08-17-2009, 03:30 AM
Looks pretty clean, I like it.

Main things that stood out where that it is quite low on protein and also essential fats. Be interesting to see the macronutrient breakdown.

damo50
08-17-2009, 07:17 AM
Cheers,

See i dont know too much more about the macronutrient thing? and the fat/protein/carbs sort of thing this is what im trying to learn a bit more about.

So if i was to have maybe a protein shake mid morning with some fruit say to get a bit more protein? where else could i increase protein intake?

I have just ordered some Multi vitamins which i am going to start taking and also ordered some HGH formulation to give it a run and see what its like. Any thoughts on this stuff???

Any suggestions on other things i could be eating which are high protein but will keep in level with the sort of eating range i am looking at calorie wise.. As im trying to sort of maintain my weight now but lose a bit of the body fat?

Cheers

Joe Black
08-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Check out the article at the top (To Bulk or to Cut, That is the Question - or is it?) as it will help you with total calories and macronutrient breakdowns.

Eggs in the morning will help you up the protein and fat content. Protein shake mid morning will help - fruit though has a low protein content, but the shake will do fine. A fish oil supplement is an easy way to get your fat higher. That should just about do it, oh and eat some nuts - good protein and fat there.

A multi-vitamin is good, but the HGH definately isn't something I would recommend. Check the forum for lots of discussions on these types of products.

I would stuck with the basics. Protein, creatine, multi-vitamin and perhaps a fat burner. Check out www.atlargenutrition.com for great products.

Check out my last fitday log for a good example of a clean, higher protein, high fat and low carb diet - http://www.fitday.com/fitness/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Cloughie

damo50
08-18-2009, 01:59 AM
I have taken your advice and had a read of To cut or bulk! Informative read which has helped me plan this diet a bit more.

Ive decided my goal is to hit 80 kg (176 lbs) but i dont wanna have it in fat like i was before. So maintenance is around 2800 calories. Which is 176 (target weight) x 16 (moderate exercise.)

From the read ive gathered this for my diet.

Protein intake - 1.5g x 176 = 264 g of Protein which is 1056 calories
FAt Intake - .5g x 176 = 88 g of Fat which is 792 Calories
Carb Intake - = 238 g of carbs which is 950 calories.
= 2798 calories

So im hoping im on the right track here! Now as long as im still doing my workout (WBB1.1) and eating like this i should gain but in muscle not fat. Correct?

Now im going to get some of the fish oil, It says 20g a day? I seen on atlarge site the servings were 1g. So id need 20 a day??? :confused:

I am now just figuring out my meals and what sort of stuff i should eat to accomplish this. Ill keep up to date with what sort of meals ill be inhaling :eek::eek:!!

Cheers

Damien

Joe Black
08-18-2009, 02:21 AM
Looks like you've digested the information well.

A couple of things. Firstly get a very clear goal and stick to it. Losing fat and gaining muscle is quite hard. Often when you lose fat, you can gain muscle but it's normally helpful to have one as a primary goal and focus on that. I would say losing fat should be your primary goal and when you have reached a level you like, you can focus on weight gain at a rate you feel comfortable with.

Given that, I think that 2800 might be a touch too much for you. Remember that any total calorie/macronutrient calculations are always going to be open to a bit of tweaking for each individual because simply put, everyone is individual and there are several variances (activity, natural metabolism, genetics etc) Maybe start at 2500 and see how you get on and then adjust 200 either way depending on what's going on.

Also for macronutrient percentages, given that your goal will be losing fat (I am making an assumption here) I would bukp up the fat and reduce the carbs. I found this to be a much more effective weight loss strategy. Try and aim for 40% protein, 40% fat and 20% carbs. You can have a few more carbs on training days if you want.

I take between 10-15 capsules a day of fish oil. It;s up to you though. At the end of the day it's just a source of fat, so if you get enough from foods (stuff like red meat, nuts etc) then you can cut back on it.

Cool, let us know when you got your meal plans done. And remember. Make it as easy and simple as possible, that way you stand a great chance of being consistent with it.

Joe Black
08-18-2009, 02:22 AM
Also check out this thread on fish oil - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2194133

damo50
08-18-2009, 05:27 AM
Thanks for the reply Daniel, Very helpful bud I appreciate it!

Now I have lost a decent amount of weight over the last 6 weeks around 1 kilo a week. Mainly from eating at about 2000 calories and low carbs. Im about 74kilos and i dont think really i want to get much below this.. Im 23 6 foot 1 so i should weigh a bit more i think. I just have a higher body fat % i think.. Not sure what it is but yeah, im not exactly fat i just need to lose the excess puppy fat around chest / belly area. Basically an Ex beer gut haha!

I want to gain weight and weigh a bit more really but dont know whether i try to lose this body fat first or start bulking?

I just dont want to be working out and eating not so much and maybe stopping gains from the working out? could this be the case?

If i keep a clean high protein diet. Like the original one but with more protein maybe a few more calories maybe around 2200 - 2400 and continued working out and see how it goes for a few weeks.

Or start to eat higher and looking at gaining and bulking muscle?

Whats the best way to be losing this "puppy fat" sort of thing ive got, eating and working out, or more cardio involved for this?

i have worked out a few meals that i usually have on a regular basis and what they would look like in the protein/fat/carb thing

My current thoughts are to go with the 40/40/20 like you said and continue the working out. Try tone up a bit and then will look at changing if im too light or ready to start bulking.

Hopefully i havent rattled on to much and made this too hard to understand. I will have a bit more of a look into it and probably go with the 40/40/20 and work out some foods to eat and post up a bit of a plan. Any where to go to get sort of Day plan for meals??

Cheers

Damien

Daniel Roberts
08-18-2009, 06:41 AM
I think you're overcomplicating it. You read the article, understood it and applied the principles to come up with a decent total and macro-nutrient intake. That was the simple part. Now you're confused again.

You state that you're 'not exactly fat', 'just need to lose the excess puppy fat around chest / belly area. Basically an Ex beer gut haha!' and you're 74kg/163lbs at 6'1".

Given that you're not 'exactly fat' (and at that height and for someone concerned with appearance and muscle you are underweight), you should stick to your original goal of hitting 80kg and the diet you calculated.
You knew where you were headed and had a clear idea of how to get there. Sitck to it. Don't overcomplicate.

However, you must also train to meet the goal, you make no mention of lifting weights, all the reduction in bodyfat is down to a change in diet, reduction in food.

Simply decreasing or increasing foods without training is only going to decrease or increase fat levels. You have no hope of hitting 80kg (an increase that'll require an increase in calories) with decreased bodyfat unless you train appropriately.

Joe Black
08-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Yeah, I would agree and I don't think I really helped in keeping it simple lol.

If you do want to gain the weight, use Daniel's formula and eat like you are that weight.

As Daniel said, ensure you have an appropiate training program which will help you put on weight.

damo50
08-18-2009, 05:52 PM
Ok great,

I have currently been doing the WBB1.1 workout. The 6 weeks where i lost the weight i was not working out as i injured my shoulder and was unable to do anything. Which i swhy i changed my diet and didnt really want to be eating heaps of crap when I couldnt do any training.

So what worrries me though is that if i start eating more i will gain more fat and not more muscle? But if i am training i will use it as food for muscles? Is this correct.

So if im going to be doing it following Daniel R's method i do about a 2800 calories( maybe a little less) and head for about 40 protein/30 fat/30 carbs diet?

I want to gain the weight and be about 80 kgs, but before when i was this weight i was mainly only this weight because of a fat beer gut and eating crap foods. Eating like above will this help me build and gain weight through muscle.. Obviously with training! and is WBB 1.1 going to be a good training routine for me to gain?

Thanks for the replys guys much appreciated..

Damo

platypus
08-18-2009, 09:17 PM
WBB is a great routine.

How's that pineapple/egg white shake? :confused:

damo50
08-18-2009, 09:36 PM
Yeah im enjoying WBB1.1 so far, Few exercises i find a little hard, like deadlift and good mornings which i dont think i have the correct form for so worries me because i dont wanna bust my back. Have already hurt my back a little doing it last week. I dont find that im really sore or anything the next day after the workouts though.. When im training im lifting to basically the point where i could not do anymore of that with the weight im lifting after my 6 sets so this is the right thing i assume?

Pineapple Juice/Eggwhite shake is awesome.. about 200mls of eggwhite and 250/300 mls of pineapple juice. Basically tastes like pineapple juice. And is a great after workout drink. Meant to be good because of something to do with whats in the pineapple juice which breaks down the protein in the eggs and makes it get to the muscles quicker. But its a good after workout shake i reckon.

Damien

Joe Black
08-19-2009, 01:48 AM
Ok great,

I have currently been doing the WBB1.1 workout. The 6 weeks where i lost the weight i was not working out as i injured my shoulder and was unable to do anything. Which i swhy i changed my diet and didnt really want to be eating heaps of crap when I couldnt do any training.

So what worrries me though is that if i start eating more i will gain more fat and not more muscle? But if i am training i will use it as food for muscles? Is this correct.

So if im going to be doing it following Daniel R's method i do about a 2800 calories( maybe a little less) and head for about 40 protein/30 fat/30 carbs diet?

I want to gain the weight and be about 80 kgs, but before when i was this weight i was mainly only this weight because of a fat beer gut and eating crap foods. Eating like above will this help me build and gain weight through muscle.. Obviously with training! and is WBB 1.1 going to be a good training routine for me to gain?

Thanks for the replys guys much appreciated..

Damo

Again, I think you are over-complicating things and worrying about stuff which you aren't gonna be able to predict accurately anyway.

Stick to the calculations Daniel gave you for being your target weight and just get eating. If you do that and train hard at the WBB 1.1 program, things will work out for you I promise.

Rather than second guessing and stressing about whay MIGHT happen, just get on and do the above and then monitor progress. If you do happen to be putting on weight too quickly, you can cut things back 200 or so calories. Or, if you're not gaining and staying the same for weeks, add 200 or so.

Hopefully you will be gaining and you won't be noticing that much of an increase in bodyfat, and things will be good :)

Joe Black
08-19-2009, 01:52 AM
Yeah im enjoying WBB1.1 so far, Few exercises i find a little hard, like deadlift and good mornings which i dont think i have the correct form for so worries me because i dont wanna bust my back. Have already hurt my back a little doing it last week. I dont find that im really sore or anything the next day after the workouts though.. When im training im lifting to basically the point where i could not do anymore of that with the weight im lifting after my 6 sets so this is the right thing i assume?

Pineapple Juice/Eggwhite shake is awesome.. about 200mls of eggwhite and 250/300 mls of pineapple juice. Basically tastes like pineapple juice. And is a great after workout drink. Meant to be good because of something to do with whats in the pineapple juice which breaks down the protein in the eggs and makes it get to the muscles quicker. But its a good after workout shake i reckon.

Damien

Deadlifts and good mornings can be dangerous exercises if you are using either improper form or don't have the right mobility.

It would be wise to get a form check from someone who you trust locally or take some videos and post them up here for a critique.

If you feel your back hurting after a session, I would perhaps train a few reps short of failure for the time being until you get used to things or get your form checked. You can still add weight to the bar and progress without going to failure.

It depends if it is a pain or just soreness from the workout. Those exercises are demanding on the lower back so it is perfectly fine for you to feel sore and tight, but you shouldn't be in pain.

damo50
08-19-2009, 02:13 AM
Yeah I am over complicating and starting to frustrate my self and worry too much about it rather then just eating.. haha.. I plan to do about 40protein/30 carb/30 fat. At around 2500 cals a day and see where it leads me.

Well when I was doing Deadlifts last week I actually felt a pain in the lower right side of my back.. Since then its been sore in there (definitely did something wrong i think) as soon as i started feeling this pain i stopped doing the deadlifts. I will try with lower weight once the pain is gone and slowly work from there.

Thanks for the help guys, and ill try to keep things up to date as i see things going along

Cheers

Damien

Joe Black
08-19-2009, 02:17 AM
Good stuff.. You have a good routine and a good diet so if you stick to those consistently (thats the key bit) all of the little bits you are worrying about really won't make too much off a difference in the grand scheme of things,

Let us know how you get on!

damo50
08-20-2009, 02:01 AM
So basically from working out from Daniels article what i have above, will be eating at 80kgs but at what Body fat% , how do you work out the calorie intake for weight and a bodyfat %?? Or once you hit that weight do you eat less to lose body fat?

Cheers

Damien

Joe Black
08-20-2009, 02:12 AM
Damien,

If you don't get on and eat 2,500 calories, I'm going to ban you lol You keep switching between sticking to your plan and then questioning it. :)

Daniel's article (correct me if I am wrong Daniel) roughly estimates that you will reach it at about the same bodyfat. You may put some on during your journey, but it'll probably even out. But then again, everyone is different and it's not worth trying to get all caught up in the detail of predicting what will happen when any daily calorie calculation is only ever going to be here or there.

What is worth doing is seeing how you get on and adjusting your daily calorie intake from there.

Stop worrying about this stuff and just eat 2500 for 6-8 weeks, train hard and see what happens.

Daniel Roberts
08-20-2009, 02:37 AM
The targeted bodyfat question is a good one damo50, but a sign again that you're overthinking.
The calculations, the lots of formulae for BMR, NEAT, and so on, which I saved you doing and kept it simple by giving a choice of 3 multipliers, take into account a target bodyfat percentage of approximately 10%.
Even if it were 15% or 5% the change would be a couple hundred kcalories max, which can be taken care of by the suggestion in the article and by Daniel above, of monitoring and adjusting calories by 200/250kcal.

I would suggest that you do not adjust anything for a month, given how prone you seem to analysis paralysis and make changes (if required every 3-4 weeks) based only on scale weight and your training log ie objectively, not kneejerk reactions to small fluctuations in waterweight, a large meal etc in the mirror.

As Daniel said, just get eating AND training. Best of luck.

damo50
08-20-2009, 07:13 PM
Lol, Im not over analyzing any more. Im eating and training. It was just a thought I had because I did not remember seeing what The sums that Daniel R said to do would bring body fat% to.

Its quite hard trying to juggle around carbs to protein to fat ratio. Trying to find which foods to eat.. but i should be able to manage..!

Cheers

Damien