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jmccown
08-17-2009, 07:40 AM
I kept debating on whether to post this or not but figured what the heck. I'll see if anyone else has the same thoughts as me.

This may be just me thinking alone, but sometimes I look in the mirror and get pretty down because I know all the hard work I'm putting in with my strength training and visually I do not see any visual muscle growth as I did when I worked out for hypertrophy. It's almost like I'm going backwards with my appearance.

I know that bodybuilding and strength training are very much different and the results show. Don't get me wrong, I'm stronger now than I've ever been in my life. But I think I do not look like I am as strong as I really am. It gets me down because some people at work, even my neighbor commented when I brought home my trophies from my last meets things like "wow, you don't look like you're that strong" or I didn't know you lifted weights from co workers. It's crap like that that really ticks me off and makes me want to go back to working out for hypertrophy as opposed to strength training, because I was getting comments then. And I know I should not pay attention to them and just worry about my goals. That's what I keep telling myself. My weight has gone up slightly, but not enough that I should look different. I never do curls anymore, basically just do bench, squat, deadlift and some accessory work.

I've already made the decision to start a cut this week to drop 25 lbs at least. But do you guys ever get comments or crap like I've been getting? Really ticks me off.

vdizenzo
08-17-2009, 07:53 AM
Must be a combination of things. My wife does the Bill Starr routine and she is as jacked as she has ever been (all she does is squat, bench, dl, underhand row, and dynamic row). How's your diet, and gpp/cardio? If you are worried about hypertrophy just do Westside. The basic premise of it is a heavy exercise, a fast exercise, and bodybuild. That's what ME, DE, and assistance are.

jmccown
08-17-2009, 08:13 AM
I think my current routine is pretty much like Westside:

Monday - ME Bench, tricep accessory work (pressdowns, skull crushers) ME squat,
Wednesday - ME Deadlift, back day - bent over rows, rear delts, cable rows, chin ups
Friday - DE Bench, will usually work in more accessory on this day - pec deck, dumbbells, tricep acessory; DE squat day

Far as my diet I wouldn't say it is clean but it is a lot of protein foods every day - steak, chicken, protein shakes, creatine, hamburger. I am guilty of splurging on the occasional dessert as well. I would say I get at least 200g of protein daily.

Cardio/GPP is basically nonexistent in my routine now. I was always told that it would affect my strength. But starting today I am going to jog at least a mile per day. Maybe two on Tues and Thurs.

vdizenzo
08-17-2009, 08:50 AM
What are the reps ranges for your assistance? Also, I don't recommend jogging for gpp. I recommend sled pulling, tire flipping, sand bag carrying, etc. things that work your muscles and your conditioning. You do ME squat and DE squat combined on bench days?

I also think you are off on your protein. Those who say they get at least this or that are not really tracking it. I can tell you how much protein I have consumed on any given day. How much do you weigh?

jmccown
08-17-2009, 09:00 AM
This morning I weighed 243.

My rep ranges on assistance are usually pretty high. For instance on pressdowns I'll do 3x10 heavy on my ME day and then on my DE day I'll do lighter weight and step up to 20-25 reps for 3 sets. I never work to failure on accessory, just till I get a good burn.

I need to find a good heavy tire for flipping. I'd much rather flip a tire as opposed to jogging. I hate jogging.

jmccown
08-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Anybody do sledge hammer or swing an ax for GPP work?

vdizenzo
08-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Without being too insulting, it does not look like your diet or program are well thought out. 200 grams of protein is not enough for someone who weights 240 imo. If you are only training 3 days which is fine go with a three day program like Starting Strength or Westside for skinny bastards. You are not smarter than the guys who wrote these. Your program above is not pretty much like Westside. If you want serious results you need to take this stuff seriously.

Detard
08-17-2009, 10:51 AM
I agree with Vincent. You can get the benefits of strength and size, by a good program/diet. When I spoke with Rhodes a while back, he wrote out a program for me, that was Heavy on the main lifts (squat, bench, deadlift), and then my accessory work was up in the 8-12 rep range. Take Vincent's advice, i'm sure he knows a thing or 2:thumbup:

JK1
08-17-2009, 11:26 AM
Without being too insulting, it does not look like your diet or program are well thought out. 200 grams of protein is not enough for someone who weights 240 imo. If you are only training 3 days which is fine go with a three day program like Starting Strength or Westside for skinny bastards. You are not smarter than the guys who wrote these. Your program above is not pretty much like Westside. If you want serious results you need to take this stuff seriously.

Vincent speaketh de truth.

Andre518
08-17-2009, 11:47 AM
In the last 4 months I shed about 32lbs and really did not lose and mass or strength. I weighted 273lbs and now Im 240-241lbs. I use to do 5 x 10 for assist work for the 1st 3 months but starting last month I went to 5 x 15-20 on all my assist work and I have added some size and definition. At 240lbs Im actually bigger mass/muscle wise and stronger. I eat no more than 4182 cals a day with my carbs at least 660g and protein at lest 242g but usually some where around 260-280g. My fat intake is between 48-68g a day. Believe me diet is very important I to me it goes training, diet, rest, when everything is in check you will be surprised at the results. I use fitday.com to track all my food everyday and it helps a ton. Good luck.

p.s. as far as worrying about the compliments I have been living by this qoute a friend told me last summer.

"I rather be the part then look the part"

Stay Strong
Andre

SEOINAGE
08-17-2009, 12:28 PM
I get less comments about how I look now that I have been strength training, I have also only gained like 6 lbs but I am a ton stronger. If your focus is on looks and that is what you train for you will obviously look better especially if you keep the fat down. I could cut and look better than ever if I wanted but still worrying about some strength goals.

jmccown
08-17-2009, 01:24 PM
I guess my goal is to be strong and look strong. Been looking at some westside templates the last few hours. I'm going to step up to 6 day program, lift 4 days and GPP work 2 days. I guess I thought since I was doing ME/DE work it was Westside, but there is more to it than just that.

Clifford Gillmore
08-17-2009, 01:33 PM
I guess my goal is to be strong and look strong. Been looking at some westside templates the last few hours. I'm going to step up to 6 day program, lift 4 days and GPP work 2 days. I guess I thought since I was doing ME/DE work it was Westside, but there is more to it than just that.

LOTS more. I learn everyday about it, and I'll never understand it!


As far as being smaller, I looked at some old pictures of me at 170-180, RIPPED to hell with 15" arms and a 30" waist and I feel smaller at 240lbs with 17.5" arms and a 38" waist (Higher BF% of course). You have to remember that if/when you diet down/cut/whatever you wanna call it, you WILL look bigger and better than you did before.

Clone
08-18-2009, 10:38 AM
Anybody do sledge hammer or swing an ax for GPP work?

I love sledge swings.

For GPP I use a little circuit of sled dragging, sandbag carrying, sledge swings.

I don't have a tire big enough for flipping, but for sledge swings I use one of my large off road tires.

I also use that tire for presses, or carrying around at lockout (like a shoulder press).

jmccown
08-18-2009, 01:30 PM
I got some good ideas from youtube last night about GPP circuits. I guess one just needs to be creative. One thing I thought about doing was taking one of my 4 wheel floor dollies and load 3-4 45 lb plates on it and attach a long rope to it and pull it up my sloped driveway as part of the circuit. Pulling some decent weight around 200 lbs with say a 50' length of rope would get a person breathing pretty hard, good back/bicep workout too. I'd love to have a sled someday.

vdizenzo
08-18-2009, 02:21 PM
Try tabata, this is what I used to do and will be getting back to when I start my cut in a week. My tabata is 20 seconds workout and 10 seconds rest for 4 cycles which adds up to 8 minutes. The four exercises I use are bodyweight squats, jumping jacks, pushups, and crunches. You can get very creative with exercises. This is just another form of conditioning that won't cost you a cent and you can do just about anyhere.

Fighter_15
08-18-2009, 04:47 PM
I kept debating on whether to post this or not but figured what the heck. I'll see if anyone else has the same thoughts as me.

This may be just me thinking alone, but sometimes I look in the mirror and get pretty down because I know all the hard work I'm putting in with my strength training and visually I do not see any visual muscle growth as I did when I worked out for hypertrophy. It's almost like I'm going backwards with my appearance.

I know that bodybuilding and strength training are very much different and the results show. Don't get me wrong, I'm stronger now than I've ever been in my life. But I think I do not look like I am as strong as I really am. It gets me down because some people at work, even my neighbor commented when I brought home my trophies from my last meets things like "wow, you don't look like you're that strong" or I didn't know you lifted weights from co workers. It's crap like that that really ticks me off and makes me want to go back to working out for hypertrophy as opposed to strength training, because I was getting comments then. And I know I should not pay attention to them and just worry about my goals. That's what I keep telling myself. My weight has gone up slightly, but not enough that I should look different. I never do curls anymore, basically just do bench, squat, deadlift and some accessory work.

I've already made the decision to start a cut this week to drop 25 lbs at least. But do you guys ever get comments or crap like I've been getting? Really ticks me off.

A lot of people give my positive comments but in the last few months people are asking me if I'm getting smaller or that it looks like I haven't gotten any bigger. I don't know how this is possible because all my lifts have went up considerably and my weight has gone up to. But I hear you, I get that feeling sometimes to.

chris mason
08-18-2009, 05:57 PM
Do some hypertrophy training. It won't make you weaker. That is a bit of a misconception in the strength training community. Take a look at Stan Efferding, the guy is JACKED and strong as ****. Increasing the size of the contractile myofibrils, which is one component of hypertrophy, also increases the force production capacity of the muscles. If you want to be as strong as you can be, you need to make your muscles as big as possible AND optimize your nervous system.

MarkM
08-18-2009, 08:35 PM
i only get that feeling on off days

Clone
08-19-2009, 01:28 PM
Try tabata, this is what I used to do and will be getting back to when I start my cut in a week. My tabata is 20 seconds workout and 10 seconds rest for 4 cycles which adds up to 8 minutes. The four exercises I use are bodyweight squats, jumping jacks, pushups, and crunches. You can get very creative with exercises. This is just another form of conditioning that won't cost you a cent and you can do just about anyhere.

Another great idea Vin. Tabata is decieving.

Its amazing how taxing simple things like bodyweight squats and jumping jacks can be.

Another circuit I do is:

40 pushups, 40 bodyweight squats, 40 sledge swings, 40 jumping jacks.

Then you immediately do 30 of each, then 20 of each, then 10 of each.

You can substitiute medicine ball slams for sledge swings.

This is all done with no rest at all. It will turn you into a whimpering pile of mush!:evillaugh:

KarlMarx
08-19-2009, 06:08 PM
Without being too insulting, it does not look like your diet or program are well thought out. 200 grams of protein is not enough for someone who weights 240 imo. If you are only training 3 days which is fine go with a three day program like Starting Strength or Westside for skinny bastards. You are not smarter than the guys who wrote these. Your program above is not pretty much like Westside. If you want serious results you need to take this stuff seriously.

I am not Vincent, but WS4SB has worked for me.... Went from 195 to 220 in a year and half, same bf....

KarlMarx
08-19-2009, 06:10 PM
On GPP...I've had a lot of fun pushing my car. I have a buddy steer it one way. Then we switch and he pushes it back while I steer. And keep switching until death finds me.

I've gotten so strong now that he has to put it in gear and run the motor against me in order to get a good workout! (not!)

mastermonster
08-22-2009, 04:41 PM
I treat my assistance work like I approached my training when I was a bodybuilder, doing usually 10-12 reps on most exercises for 3 -5 sets. My powerlifts I approach totally from a low rep to single rep format. I'm just short of 5'10" and average approx. 270 (up and down) and have competed as heavy as 300 lbs. with my abs still somewhat visible (but thick!). My strength on my comp lifts is (I believe) very good, and my muscle size is maybe even better than when I competed as a bodybuilder (although my waist is much thicker). I think the key is 1st, like Vinnie said; make sure you are getting enough protein and other nutrients (my biggest struggle is taking in enough protein). Secondly, listening to your body to know how much volume is enough on the 'bodybuilding' type work. Don't do more than you can recover from.

The only time I feel small is standing between Garry Frank and John Ewing! LOL!