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View Full Version : Westside Releases Statement Regarding Hoff Incident



AJL11
08-27-2009, 02:04 PM
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/12308



Looks like its not over yet........(sigh)

sayagain
08-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Good grief, just when I thought there might be some closure.

barbell01
08-27-2009, 02:24 PM
who cares! the money went to cartwright and wenning. hoff was suspended! who cares what is said after the fact. it's over, let it go. nobody needs closure. i still like lou regardless of his view on the situation.

KarlMarx
08-27-2009, 02:51 PM
So many people seem so sure over whether there was cheating or not. On one hand, apparently nobody saw it in person. Which is very important because if it were that obvious somebody would likely have seen something. On the other hand, the video makes it seem clearly like there was cheating. I think if you have to go with one or the other, you go with what you saw in person. That doesn't mean that cheating did or did not happen, just that you have to go with what was seen in person by people looking from 30 different angles instead of what you see on the video from one. We may never know what happened for CERTAIN, just what the evidence leads us to believe is likely. In the end, I sort of agree with Louie. Not that Hoff was CERTAINLY innocent, just that you have to go with the judgment on the platform.

sayagain
08-27-2009, 03:01 PM
It just seems like a very odd statement from Louie.

sobrinoc
08-27-2009, 03:03 PM
So does anyone have any doubts now about why no one said anything to Louie at the meet?

vdizenzo
08-27-2009, 03:04 PM
I said this over on Outlaws and I'll say it here and then I'm done with it:

If it's not true then why did I get calls from people at the meet and after the meet saying wait until you see the s**t Hoff pulled? The suspension and money being changed happened for a reason. I respect the hell out of Louie and appreciate all he has done for the sport, but I am not going to sit back and just take his word on this one.

Either way this s**t is over with. Hoff will be watched like a hawk everytime he lifts. This incident will probably have judges everywhere more on their toes. I'm done with this drama now, it's time to worry about my own training.

I say this fully knowing there are guys here with close ties to Westside. These words do not reflect my opinion of them

evilxxx
08-27-2009, 03:16 PM
I said this over on Outlaws and I'll say it here and then I'm done with it:

If it's not true then why did I get calls from people at the meet and after the meet saying wait until you see the s**t Hoff pulled? The suspension and money being changed happened for a reason. I respect the hell out of Louie and appreciate all he has done for the sport, but I am not going to sit back and just take his word on this one.

Either way this s**t is over with. Hoff will be watched like a hawk everytime he lifts. This incident will probably have judges everywhere more on their toes. I'm done with this drama now, it's time to worry about my own training.

:clap::bow:

slashkills
08-27-2009, 03:20 PM
there may be some repercussions for Hoff at westside that Lou doesn't want to make public. Maybe Louie doesn't want to publicly talk crap about one of his guys at westside. That does sound weird for Lou though.

KarlMarx
08-27-2009, 03:22 PM
If it's not true then why did I get calls from people at the meet and after the meet saying wait until you see the s**t Hoff pulled?

I didn't know this. But really, I've already said too much about something that doesn't directly concern me. So I am going to follow a good lead and 'forever hold my peace' on this one.

Cmanuel
08-27-2009, 03:28 PM
This is what strikes me as odd
" have already given Matt Wenning and extra $500 which gave him the second place money and Scott Cartwright $1,000 which moved him into third place. "

If he is so innocent, why did Louie pay up?

barbell01
08-27-2009, 03:35 PM
This is what strikes me as odd
" have already given Matt Wenning and extra $500 which gave him the second place money and Scott Cartwright $1,000 which moved him into third place. "

If he is so innocent, why did Louie pay up?

either way, it was the right thing to do.

bencher8
08-27-2009, 03:48 PM
well, this doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me. If thats WSB's official stance on it, then its there stance. I just dont understand why, lifts were discounted, money exchanged, places changed, punishments handed out, if their was nothing wrong.....seems odd to do all that, and then come out and say thier was no cheating...

[/QUOTE]I say this fully knowing there are guys here with close ties to Westside. These words do not reflect my opinion of them[/QUOTE]


I like this part Vinnie, I think I will start placing disclaimers in my posts as well lol

Lones Green
08-27-2009, 03:49 PM
I still don't see why no one said anything to anyone about it. If they saw something, they should have spoken up. I was sitting in the front row during his benches and I couldn't see anything, Lou was right next to me and didn't mention anything either. Someone that said they saw something, or noticed an abnormal bulge should have said something to a ref, or Jesse, or Mike Ferguson. That would cut out the whole factor of the internet

bencher8
08-27-2009, 03:58 PM
true lones, if anyone saw anything at the meet they should have said something. But they didnt say anything, so we get a vid to look at....

To answer that question though, do you get up and watch over the top of other lifters when you are competing? I dont. I sit in my chair and watch from afar, but much like the audience, you cant see anything, but maybe the bar move.

One other thing is that their are wayyy to many spotters involved in the lift. This is something that I have told jesse in the past. I dont like the fact that there are 3 spotters on each side of the bar and the handoff guy is allowed to stay on the platform....its just too much. Its not lifter friendly, its not spectator friendly, its not judge friendly, its just too much. I understand jesse's stance..he wants the lifter to be safe, but its too much. If two or three good spotters cant handle 800+, then you dont have the right spotters. The only angle that anyone can really see from is the one that was shot at this meet.....

Just my opinion, I still have the same stance as I did before, I still respect the fact that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion of it

Lones Green
08-27-2009, 04:03 PM
true lones, if anyone saw anything at the meet they should have said something. But they didnt say anything, so we get a vid to look at....

To answer that question though, do you get up and watch over the top of other lifters when you are competing? I dont. I sit in my chair and watch from afar, but much like the audience, you cant see anything, but maybe the bar move.

One other thing is that their are wayyy to many spotters involved in the lift. This is something that I have told jesse in the past. I dont like the fact that there are 3 spotters on each side of the bar and the handoff guy is allowed to stay on the platform....its just too much. Its not lifter friendly, its not spectator friendly, its not judge friendly, its just too much. I understand jesse's stance..he wants the lifter to be safe, but its too much. If two or three good spotters cant handle 800+, then you dont have the right spotters. The only angle that anyone can really see from is the one that was shot at this meet.....

Just my opinion, I still have the same stance as I did before, I still respect the fact that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion of it

I can understand that, the whole too many spotters thing. It makes it hard for the refs to see and what not.

It still doesn't change the fact that several people said they saw something under Hoff's shirt at the meet. If they thought it was that out of line (and it was, if its true) they should have said something at the meet right when they saw it, or immediately after. It doesn't make sense to me...

sobrinoc
08-27-2009, 04:30 PM
The ONLY federation here is an IPF affiliate. The rules clearly state that drug use is prohibitted. At the same time many of the top local lifters brag about their drug use. Why doesn't anyone say anything? Two reasons and I bet money they applied here too:

1) No one wants to be seen as a cry baby or rat.
2) Usually people will be afraid that even if they do tell, the guy cheating is in with the authorities running the meet or federation so nothing will happen.

After seeing this public statement. I am more confident than ever that anyone who saw anything weird just said to themselves: "Screw it, nothing will happen anyway."

Lones Green
08-27-2009, 05:28 PM
The ONLY federation here is an IPF affiliate. The rules clearly state that drug use is prohibitted. At the same time many of the top local lifters brag about their drug use. Why doesn't anyone say anything? Two reasons and I bet money they applied here too:

1) No one wants to be seen as a cry baby or rat.
2) Usually people will be afraid that even if they do tell, the guy cheating is in with the authorities running the meet or federation so nothing will happen.

After seeing this public statement. I am more confident than ever that anyone who saw anything weird just said to themselves: "Screw it, nothing will happen anyway."

IMO, anyone with an attitude like that is a pretty big scaredy cat...I wanted to say something else, but it wouldn't be appropriate. To me, thats still no excuse

robchris
08-27-2009, 06:25 PM
Soooo...... Louie's implying the video was doctored?

I assume thiers more than one video right? What about the eyewitnesses (after the fact no less!)

chris mason
08-27-2009, 06:26 PM
I have not spoken to Louie about this. I probably won't unless he brings it up.

My take is that he did what he did with the money to try to appease everyone and move on. Louie respects those who do, not those who talk. I think he sees the anonymous people on the net who trash every lift of the best of the best for what it is, those who weren't there trying to judge something after the fact and being negative for the sake of being negative.

Read what he wrote carefully. He collects big money for these meets. He spends a LOT of his own money. His invests time AND money and what does he get for it but a bunch of whining and complaining from those who were not there? I can understand his frustration.

I remember a WPO meet (at the Arnold) where Louie, Doris, and myself were the only ones awarding cash in fist (or a couple of checks as well as cash in my case). Louie made SURE those lifters were actually going to get some money. THAT is the kind of guy he is. He does more for people than most of you will ever know. THAT is the kind of guy he is. He does what he does for the love of the sport.

Like I said before, nothing was noted at the meet. You cannot go back in time, therefore you cannot conclusively prove anything. People are damning Hoff without knowing for sure. They want to convict him on hearsay. That is stupid and dangerous.

At any meets in the future Hoff will be watched closely. That is all that should come of this.

I respect Louie and am glad he has spoken his peace on the matter.

bencher8
08-27-2009, 06:55 PM
I would say it is highly likely Lou hasnt watched the vid and prolly wont.....I am sure he heard about it from others. Just my thought on that.

My question is should everything count that we can get by the judges? I can set a WR in a meet tomorrow, if I go to a 3 brd with it...no camera allowed lol

Not questioning anyones integrity or attacking Lou, WSB or any others that may have an opposing view....

chris mason
08-27-2009, 07:01 PM
I would say it is highly likely Lou hasnt watched the vid and prolly wont.....I am sure he heard about it from others. Just my thought on that.

My question is should everything count that we can get by the judges? I can set a WR in a meet tomorrow, if I go to a 3 brd with it...no camera allowed lol

Not questioning anyones integrity or attacking Lou, WSB or any others that may have an opposing view....

Daniel put it perfectly with his soccer references. In EVERY sport mistakes are made. Things get missed. Life goes on.

IF video were allowed as part of the judging process as a meet rule prior to its commencement, then it should be considered. If not, then everyone should go with the calls made at the meet. That's it.

cunniff81
08-27-2009, 09:08 PM
Daniel put it perfectly with his soccer references. In EVERY sport mistakes are made. Things get missed. Life goes on.

IF video were allowed as part of the judging process as a meet rule prior to its commencement, then it should be considered. If not, then everyone should go with the calls made at the meet. That's it.

You're right things get missed in a meet. I have seen squats passed and failed that should have been the other way. That happens and it's human. I am more pissed that even after seeing the video Louie still reffuses to state that he did cheat.

I don't like someone lying and telling me that something was white when you can clearly see that it's black. And that is what Louie is doing.

robchris
08-27-2009, 09:12 PM
Daniel put it perfectly with his soccer references. In EVERY sport mistakes are made. Things get missed. Life goes on.

IF video were allowed as part of the judging process as a meet rule prior to its commencement, then it should be considered. If not, then everyone should go with the calls made at the meet. That's it.

Chris,

Well spoken... As you stated, things do get missed, and life does go on.

Besides, I'm sure Hoffs a good kid. He's only (21) for christ sake... I made a lot wrose mistakes at his age!

He'll learn from this incident and come back better for it!

Just my 2-cent
RC

chris mason
08-27-2009, 10:05 PM
You're right things get missed in a meet. I have seen squats passed and failed that should have been the other way. That happens and it's human. I am more pissed that even after seeing the video Louie still reffuses to state that he did cheat.

I don't like someone lying and telling me that something was white when you can clearly see that it's black. And that is what Louie is doing.

a) You don't know if Louie watched the video. He very likely did not.
b) If his guy told him he didn't do it Louie should take him at his word unless he has other reasons not to.

JK1
08-27-2009, 11:09 PM
I'm seriously sick of this ****.

mdschultze
08-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Amen Jack!!!

Joe Black
08-28-2009, 02:37 AM
As Chris said, I think Louie giving the money to the other contestants was just his way of trying to do what everyone else thinks is right. That way no one feels as if they have lost out and should be able to move on.

I must admit I do think it is a bit odd doing that, because it conflicts with Louie's stance, but it is what it is.

If I was in Louie's situation, I would have probably taken the same stance. (apart from giving the money to the other guys) He didn't see anything, no one else saw anything and the guy swears blind he didn't do anything - so what other choice does he have?

If Hoff DID do something, he sure as hell won't ever be able to do anything again as he will be watched like a hawk at future events.

thegreatone
08-28-2009, 03:40 AM
IF video were allowed as part of the judging process as a meet rule prior to its commencement, then it should be considered. If not, then everyone should go with the calls made at the meet. That's it.

Exactly. If he cheated or not it really doesn't matter you can't change the rules after the event because you don't like the way something occurred. If there is nothing in the rules that states lifts can be overturned upon video review, then the lift has to stand. Changing the rules is cheating as well as far as I concerned. If he cheated and got away with it, that sucks but if he didn't and is suspended etc. that sucks more.

Ryano
08-28-2009, 05:36 AM
Everyone has an opinion if Hoff cheated or not. I personally am convinced he did. Jesse Rodgers obviously thinks he did. I originally thought that Louie Simmons thought he cheated since he paid Wenning and Cartright. With Lou's statement, he says Hoff didn't cheat and then attacks the "internet geeks" instead of explaining why he paid the extra money out anyway. That doesn't make sense to me.

Why hasn't Hoff made any statements anywhere? Maybe he doesn't want Louie to think he's an internet geek? I suppose that most people have made up their mind that he cheated and if he denies it, he will just be considered a liar and a cheat. The people who saw something wrong at the meet should come forward to put an end to this controversy. Like others have said, judges now will be looking for shirt/gear stuffing from now on and I will call my shirted 2brd presses "Hoff Presses" from now on.

Rob Luyando
08-28-2009, 05:54 AM
Very Well put Vincent!

Fuzzy
08-28-2009, 06:34 AM
I hate to feed Mr Simmons' disdain for computer geeks, but...

http://i30.tinypic.com/287el4o.jpg

Sensei
08-28-2009, 06:40 AM
Wow.

For squatters, I'm going to invent big, knobby, flesh-colored knee wraps that allow you to hit parallel right out of the monolift. I'll make HUNDREDS.

charlesd
08-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Hi,
I'm a member who does not post much because i don't know much on lifting weights. I started 6 months ago with starting strength and i'm still at it. I just basically check every day and pickup tips from you more experienced guys. I fell on this thread by pure accident and read through. All i can say is that there is something definatley wrong with that picture. I don't know much about powerlifting and much less about equipment likes shirts - but i can say that is not normal.
Now back to reading the texas method.

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 11:37 AM
Jesse's statement today


Ok, when the video and picture got posted Monday Louie and I had to make a decision and really fast and we agreed to suspend Dave Hoff when all this first started. Thirty minutes later Louie called be back and we realized that we did not handle the situation the way it should have been handled according to the rules, simply because of all the pressure on the internet and everywhere else. Actually there should have been a meeting and open decision about all this among the board, trying to handle the situation fast I did not do this.
Now after having time to breath and after talking to a lot of people, including the Vice President Rick Posey, which informed me that I shouldnít have suspended Hoff because nothing was seen or caught at the meet. I also had another long conversion with Louie Simmons today, and discussed this in pretty good detail again. I have also talked too many of our board members at this time which are from many federations also and not just SPF.

If we had caught someone cheating at the meet, the lift would not have counted; he would have been disqualified, and placed on probation. End of story as in any federation. Not one person saw anything on or around the platform including myself. Many lifters that were there have already said the same thing, they saw nothing. I do not believe it is right to judge a meet from a video and or after the fact. I basically believe everyone should go by the rules and sorry but that does not include videos and pictures and after the fact judging. Right or wrong that is just the way it is. There is SO much controversy over this, no matter what is decided some people will agree and some will not and thatís a fact. Also fact is some people canít wait to find fault with any decision I make.

So regardless, based on what is right by the rules that we have all always went by from the beginning and is not based on Louieís post, it also is not on rather or not the SPF sanctions the Pro Am next year,

This is not even entered into the picture and doesnít matter either way. It is not even based on how much Louie pays me, as someone said on one forum, not this one, because if you noticed the other post, the SPF wasnít paid anything nor did we want to be. Wasnít part of it and pay will not be part of it next year. In our eyes, right is right and wrong is wrong.

1. Since there is no rule book in no federation that says we have the luxury of going home and viewing a tape and then changing our decisions we must live with the decisions that ALL referees made and David Hoff is reinstated as is the lifts.

This is what I have a problem with. No one caught him red handed doing anything wrong at the meet, but after the fact, on one picture. I am not placing blame anywhere, this is just the way I see it. I was there too and I mean standing right there and I saw nothing either. Yes if I had I would have stopped him in his tracks.

One other thing when something goes wrong at a meet and the lifter QUOTES the rule in their favor then they want the problem fixed right then, saying they want to go by the book, and thatís the way it should be. Now with this problem some people think we should just do whatever they think is best, sorry but it canít stand that way, we have to go by the what rules we have in play.

1. Videos and pictures are not in ANY rule book, including ours.

2. Not one official at the meet seen anything and yes they watch the best they can.

3. I too stood right there where he walked in and out of the back room and I saw nothing myself.

4. Not one person at the meet came to me and said that it looked like to them he had something under the shirt.

5. Many lifters were propped up on the weight rack that was around the floor watching extremely intent as the bar was lowered to his chest, again not one person seen anything.

6. I personally saw him walk back to the warm up room and saw nothing.

7. In no video that I have watched does it look like there is anything there when the lift is over and he stands up, waves his hands and walks off.

8. If there was anyone at the meet that saw anything, why wasnít anything said at the meet?

9. This is after the fact.

10. With as many officials that where there including myself and as many lifters and spectators that were there with their eyes locked on this lift. Not one person saw a thing. Not counting all the videos. Seems extremely odd.

11. This is the meet video taking by the staff I guess, it shows nothing that I can tell. http://www.ironscene.com/videos/3052_dave_hoff_810@275_benchpress_-_2009_spf_pro-am he jumps up and waves his arms, not worrying about any object that I can tell.

12. Really no matter what we think or donít think there is not rule book out there that says we can judge a lift after the fact, at home with a video of any lift.

My own opinions donít matter anymore than anyone else. Rules are rules and they are all we have and we must go by them on good days as well as bad one.

Again I apologize to everyone for all the time spent on this and trust me; I do understand your concern and the importance of this to every lifter out there. I am trying to do the best I possible can with this situation. Again I apologize to every lifter and to every person that is part of this sport. I can just hope I got it right this time.

Jesse Rodgers

I stand behind the most important person in powerlifting to me, my coach and my gym. I also support Jesse and his decisions.

Pete22
08-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Travis, I hate to ask this, but why did you delete this from your original post on the subject?


Obviously my perspective has changed, but that was not until discussing this with people who actually witnessed these actions as well as comming into some incontrovertible evidence. I was greatly dissapointed in those who saw what happened and did not speak up. Integrity would call for them to have spoken up during the meet, not after, but hopefully we can all learn from this situation and never ever let this happen again. Cheating in a meet has no place.

Your original post was edited last night? I'm not trying to cause controversy, but I notice that you said you came into some "incontrovertible evidence", and now that part is gone?

Barbaccio
08-28-2009, 11:45 AM
Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 11:46 AM
Travis, I hate to ask this, but why did you delete this from your original post on the subject?



Your original post was edited last night? I'm not trying to cause controversy, but I notice that you said you came into some "incontrovertible evidence", and now that part is gone?



Because someone was using it on another forum to distort what I said.

Thanks for posting it back up though and not sending me a PM

Edit to include quote from Pete lol.

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 11:49 AM
Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.

I understand where you're comming from Tone. Were I not in my position, I might say the same thing

I don't expect a lot of people to understand and fully realize that I will come under a lot of fire for this one. But I know I'm doing the right thing.

I was there at the meet. I've been involved in almost all the discussions with the powers at be and this is where I stand, with Louie and Westside Barbell.

bencher8
08-28-2009, 11:50 AM
haha, all that can be done at this point is laugh

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 11:52 AM
haha, all that can be done at this point is laugh

Nah, it's cool Paul. I won't get pissed this time. I'm fully open to it.

Jorge Sanchez
08-28-2009, 12:08 PM
As a completely disinterested observer, I think this was the right decision. Judging by the video, it certainly looks like he had something in his shirt but that's just speculation and conjecture, not evidence.

bencher8
08-28-2009, 12:19 PM
lol It may be cool and you may be open to it, but I just dont care anymore. I dont care if he cheated or not, I dont care what jesse or lou and WSB, or you have to say about it, I dont care if his lifts count.....it doesn matter anymore..

to hell with it..Im with Tone on this one. I need to get ready for a meet, cause I dont feel like Powerlifting has much in the way of integrity anymore. You cant compare anything. You cant compare feds to feds, lifts to lifts, one year to the next. The only thing you can do is compare yourself to yourself and hold yourself to standards.

waynedang
08-28-2009, 12:27 PM
lol It may be cool and you may be open to it, but I just dont care anymore. I dont care if he cheated or not, I dont care what jesse or lou and WSB, or you have to say about it, I dont care if his lifts count.....it doesn matter anymore..

to hell with it..Im with Tone on this one. I need to get ready for a meet, cause I dont feel like Powerlifting has much in the way of integrity anymore. You cant compare anything. You cant compare feds to feds, lifts to lifts, one year to the next. The only thing you can do is compare yourself to yourself and hold yourself to standards.

well said Paul

Sensei
08-28-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm not saying anyone is at fault for missing it - in a meet, everyone is doing their own thing (making sure the weights are correct, spotting, judging, cheering, or lifting) and too busy for much else. BUT, why is anyone even questioning whether this guy cheated or not? I think it's pretty damn clear w. that picture and coupled with the video just makes it crystal clear.

It seems a pretty easy fix. Ask the guy. If he denies it and you don't think you have sufficient evidence, then move on and make damn sure it doesn't happen again by having equipment checks at meets (which are rare at most).

Zak Freiwald
08-28-2009, 01:14 PM
On one hand, I commend Louie Simmons and Jesse Rodgers for stepping up and take action (sometimes unpopular action) in the face of ugly circumstances. On the other hand, if they'd a taken the path of least resistance and said/done nothing, this all would have all blown over by now.

Yo Paul, what's your next meet? You doing APF GA State or you got another one picked?

chris mason
08-28-2009, 01:15 PM
I hate to feed Mr Simmons' disdain for computer geeks, but...

http://i30.tinypic.com/287el4o.jpg

I have watched the video and I believe that picture is altered to make it look a LOT worse than it is.

chris mason
08-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.

Louie believes what Hoff told him. Why does everyone have to judge that?

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Louie believes what Hoff told him. Why does everyone have to judge that?

I think Tone was referring to my comment? I could be mistaken

Scott R.
08-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Couldn't Hoff just suit up again and show that the lump in his shirt is always there? Maybe that would silence the critics. Although, at this point, I don't guess it matters.

Barbaccio
08-28-2009, 01:27 PM
So it's easier to believe someone doctored the still shot of the video than to believe there was something in the guys singlet? Really? Can't we just agree that we don't know either way? Not knowing is an acceptable answer. But to allow the guys lift to stand and then accuse the OTHER guy of doctoring the photo seems ridiculous to me.

JK1
08-28-2009, 01:32 PM
I have watched the video and I believe that picture is altered to make it look a LOT worse than it is.

Chris, Im anything but an expert on this, but I do quite a bit of work with photographs of animals and survielence videos of wildlife. If you think a photo like this is altered, the simplest thing to do is to save the photo on your computer, open it up in Photoshop (or any picture viewer for that matter) and blow the picture up. In an unaltered photo, you will see relatively smooth pixilation. In an altered photo, there will be a distinct line or shadowing that distorts the image as the size is increased.

I've gone over and over this photo. There is a shadow of the bar that appears to give a degree of distortion and sharpens the angle of the front of the suspected foreign object. That creates a visual effect that you can't deny and that you would probably miss on the video. At the same time, I cannot see anything that I (in my uneducated opinion) would call distortion of the image consistant with the changes I wrote about above.

I also tried to screen capture this exact image from some of the u-tube videos. I wasn't able to do it. I got images that were close, but not this exact same one.


I simply don't know what to make of it. Maybe I'm not the big computer geek I thought i was.

JK1
08-28-2009, 01:34 PM
So it's easier to believe someone doctored the still shot of the video than to believe there was something in the guys singlet? Really? Can't we just agree that we don't know either way? Not knowing is an acceptable answer. But to allow the guys lift to stand and then accuse the OTHER guy of doctoring the photo seems ridiculous to me.

Thats the best thing to do in my opinion.... agree that we dont' know either way.

chris mason
08-28-2009, 02:15 PM
So it's easier to believe someone doctored the still shot of the video than to believe there was something in the guys singlet? Really? Can't we just agree that we don't know either way? Not knowing is an acceptable answer. But to allow the guys lift to stand and then accuse the OTHER guy of doctoring the photo seems ridiculous to me.


I think the video looks like something was there. I have seen stranger visual ilusions due to lighting etc. I also think the still shot looks a LOT worse than watching the video which leads me to believe it may have been ****ed with. That's all.

chris mason
08-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Chris, Im anything but an expert on this, but I do quite a bit of work with photographs of animals and survielence videos of wildlife. If you think a photo like this is altered, the simplest thing to do is to save the photo on your computer, open it up in Photoshop (or any picture viewer for that matter) and blow the picture up. In an unaltered photo, you will see relatively smooth pixilation. In an altered photo, there will be a distinct line or shadowing that distorts the image as the size is increased.

I've gone over and over this photo. There is a shadow of the bar that appears to give a degree of distortion and sharpens the angle of the front of the suspected foreign object. That creates a visual effect that you can't deny and that you would probably miss on the video. At the same time, I cannot see anything that I (in my uneducated opinion) would call distortion of the image consistant with the changes I wrote about above.

I also tried to screen capture this exact image from some of the u-tube videos. I wasn't able to do it. I got images that were close, but not this exact same one.


I simply don't know what to make of it. Maybe I'm not the big computer geek I thought i was.

For me, end game I take the guy at his word. He was not caught doing anything at the meet, so that is all you can really do. I think it fair he is watched like a hawk moving forward.

rinse
08-28-2009, 02:44 PM
I think this is as horrible as the next guy but if you can disq Hoff for this you should be able to turn down bad lifts, that got white lights, after the meet based on video evidence. That will never happen and it shouldn't so Hoffs lifts should stand too right or wrong.

Ryano
08-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Between keeping up on Hoffgate and Michael Jackson news, I barely have time to get to the gym anymore. Geeeeeez. The guy cheated and got away with it. It's a shame, but I know people who commited murder and got away with it too. Life goes on.

JK1
08-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Between keeping up on Hoffgate and Michael Jackson news, I barely have time to get to the gym anymore. Geeeeeez. The guy cheated and got away with it. It's a shame, but I know people who commited murder and got away with it too. Life goes on.

Speaking of Micheal Jackson and murder, did you catch this story? http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=428680&GT1=28102



You all do know that there have been warnings issued to veterinarians by law enforcement to monitor propofol as closely as ketamine because of the strange sexual hallucinations that can occur from that drug causing it to have a potential to be a drug of interest by thieves. The same holds true with Midazolam

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10769556

Now thats some seriously juicy ****.... think about it... Wacko Jacko... multiple sexual drugs....

Who'd a thunk it?

Rob Luyando
08-28-2009, 04:16 PM
I am just laughing at all the ignorant posts. I am going back into hybernation. I remember why I hate the internet again. My logs will continue to be posted on Super Training Gym site but that will be the extent of my internet posting

Travis Bell
08-28-2009, 04:20 PM
I am just laughing at all the ignorant posts. I am going back into hybernation. I remember why I hate the internet again. My logs will continue to be posted on Super Training Gym site but that will be the extent of my internet posting

Sad to see you go man. It's been very helpful having you post here, but I do understand. This stuff can be a real headache. I'll sure be following your log.

dbc3po
08-28-2009, 05:53 PM
This is one sight I have really posted anything on involving this subject. Lets let what may or may not have happened go and get back in the gym and train. I know I have allot more crap to deal with then whether or not Dave Hoff Cheated. If he did then the person he let down the most is himself knowing the only reason he got the money he did was by cheating. In the end this really hasnt had any impact on me and I havent lost one bit of sleep over it, this thing is played out and needs to die.