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View Full Version : Any negatives to getting the majority of your protein from supplements?



Jilla82
08-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Whats the difference in getting your protein from powders compared to real food?


The only meat I eat is fish and even thats rare, plus im thinking of giving that up. If my only real supplementation is protein and the rest of my diet is well rounded would I see any difference in performance?

BFGUITAR
08-29-2009, 05:21 PM
From what I know if you get your protein from something like a whey/egg/casein blend than it is fine. An all whey protein diet I have heard it not recommended.

Sean S
08-29-2009, 08:14 PM
There would be no difference in protein with this approach, but there are other nutrients in meats that are important such as creatine, iron, B-12, etc.... You would have to construct the rest of your diet to make up for any of these shortcomings and likely include some supplementation of things such as B-12 that are only found in animal products.

Adam
08-31-2009, 03:47 AM
No problems at all. I've done it in the past for an extended period of time.

New2IRON
08-31-2009, 10:37 PM
Companys who provide Protein supplements fund their own research... I don't trust them after taking several nutrition classes. Their claims are not fda approved and most of them have been proven to not be anabolic. Go get a text book and read on them. The internet is a bad source for info. And your body prefers protein from food sources over a powder

Off Road
08-31-2009, 11:13 PM
I don't believe supps are required, but they are also not the devil.

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 12:47 AM
Companys who provide Protein supplements fund their own research... I don't trust them after taking several nutrition classes. Their claims are not fda approved and most of them have been proven to not be anabolic. Go get a text book and read on them. The internet is a bad source for info. And your body prefers protein from food sources over a powder

If I'm getting my necessary macro's elsewhere, what difference does it make if I get 100g of protein a day from steak vs. whey powder?

VikingWarlord
09-01-2009, 07:31 AM
your body prefers protein from food sources over a powder

How does your body know the difference? Protein from a powder is more bioavailable since it doesn't have to go through the process of breaking it down from more complex food sources. What is the process by which the body says "oh, this is powder, can't have that" and decides that it's not going to utilize that in the anabolic process?

Everything has its place. Supplements tend to be a lot more expensive than whole foods which are more satisfying, more enjoyable, and necessary if you want to build good lifelong eating habits.

Also, the Internet can be a better source of information than textbooks because it can be kept more current. It just depends on the source.

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 11:30 AM
^^ My text books were issued this year bud lol.. Im going to believe text funded by national societies over the internet, sorry. And thats why its called a "supplement" supplementation of real protein is synthetic. Go take a few nutrition classes before you respond again with such ignorance bro

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 11:54 AM
^^ My text books were issued this year bud lol.. Im going to believe text funded by national societies over the internet, sorry. And thats why its called a "supplement" supplementation of real protein is synthetic. Go take a few nutrition classes before you respond again with such ignorance bro

How about some graduate-level biochemistry classes at a top-ranked university?

Unreal
09-01-2009, 01:07 PM
^^ My text books were issued this year bud lol.. Im going to believe text funded by national societies over the internet, sorry. And thats why its called a "supplement" supplementation of real protein is synthetic. Go take a few nutrition classes before you respond again with such ignorance bro

Since when is whey or caseisn synthetic. It is just taken from milk. There is no difference between drinking milk and drinking whey that is just filtered out of milk.

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 01:14 PM
Since when is whey or caseisn synthetic. It is just taken from milk. There is no difference between drinking milk and drinking whey that is just filtered out of milk.

My nutrition textbook told me it's synthetic brah

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 01:42 PM
You dont think their is any other additives to that protein? It's all "natural" like eating old fashioned food? lol... Why do you think it's not FDA approved?? Dont be blinded by case reports for companies done by companies. I will scan you out a whole chapter about "anabolic" manufactured substances and the amount of over the counter steriods in them conducted by federal universities and indapendant research groups. No its not the devil to take a protein powder... yes its better to get old fashioned food

VikingWarlord
09-01-2009, 02:01 PM
Just because your textbooks were "issued" this year doesn't mean they contain the most updated information. I suggest you read some things by McDonald, Berardi, or any other sports nutrition expert.

Seems you're New2NUTRITION as well. Sit back and listen. You might learn something from people that have been around a while.

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 02:11 PM
^^Im currently working on my clinical hours as a RD... you know what that is? Im a registered dietition. I have many classes in biology and nutrition. Yes I do not know everything there is to know about food and supplements but I know for a fact that protein powders and weight gainers contain substances only manufactured by man. This is a widely known area of intrest in the groups I work with and have seen people have illnesses related to taking these substances. Not in moderation but more than what is reccomended to produce "bigger gains". Try overdosing on protein from natrual substances and see how far you get ;-).. There not horrible for you but there not prefered.

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 02:11 PM
You dont think their is any other additives to that protein? It's all "natural" like eating old fashioned food? lol... Why do you think it's not FDA approved?? Dont be blinded by case reports for companies done by companies. I will scan you out a whole chapter about "anabolic" manufactured substances and the amount of over the counter steriods in them conducted by federal universities and indapendant research groups. No its not the devil to take a protein powder... yes its better to get old fashioned food

I'm sure in some of the Muscletech products and other similar companies' there may be suspect additives.
I take a pure whey isolate/concentrate blend, it doesn't make any financial sense to put secret steroids into my protein power. The FDA doesn't regulate the supplement industry, hence why protein powder isn't FDA approved. You are taking this conversation on a tangent a lot further than was originally intended.
Myself and other members aren't here to defend the supplement industry. If you spent any time on the boards, and looked at what the general consensus is about NO products and the other garbage that's pumped out by the supplement companies, you'd realize that you're preaching to the choir already.
We are talking about taking basic protein supplements, isolated from natural food sources. There is nothing unhealthy or "synthetic" about taking a protein supplement.

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 02:12 PM
^^ Agreed, as long as its in moderation. All im simply stating is that your body prefers a natrual food source. Thats all. Humans have been eating chicken since the dawn of time, only in the past 60-70 years have we thought about why isolates. Ya know?

Off Road
09-01-2009, 02:29 PM
Haha...I remember textbooks. When you finally get out into the real world you'll see how flawed even your beloved textbooks are. Every teacher has an agenda and they choose their own textbooks.

On the subject of supplements...most here take vitamins (any objections to that?), fish oil (any objections there?), and protein powder. We take the protein powder because we find it hard to eat two dozen chicken breasts a day to get the ammount of protein we want. The powders make it easier, much easier.

Now I know you are new to lifting. Wait until you find out that you will need over 3,500 calories a day with over 350 grams of protein to keep making progress. Then you'll understand why we like our protein powders.

Sean S
09-01-2009, 02:49 PM
I think we're all actually pretty close in the opinions here. A few points:
1) Dietary protein is a rich source of amino acids. It doesn't matter if that source is a protein powder, an egg, or meat.
2) There are other beneficial nutrients contained in foods that may not be present in supplements.
3) Most protein powders are not actually synthetic, but are actually isolated from food sources such as milk, soy, or egg.
4) Many supplements have impurities or may not contain exactly what is listed on the label. Based on everything I've ever read, this doesn't seem to be a huge issue with simple protein powders.
5) Excessive amounts of any nutrient, protein included, are rarely beneficial, but that's not really the point here.
6) Yes, much of the marketing regarding dietary supplements is BS.

I've been a RD for the last 11 years, have an MS in exercise science, am almost finished with my PhD in muscle biology, and have been a competitive powerlifter for the last 5 years. So yes I know what I'm talking about.

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 02:55 PM
^^ Agreed, as long as its in moderation. All im simply stating is that your body prefers a natrual food source. Thats all. Humans have been eating chicken since the dawn of time, only in the past 60-70 years have we thought about why isolates. Ya know?

Since when is natural better?

I can think of a perfect example of a synthetic product being superior to the "natural" version. Look at aspirin development: It was based off the structure of a compound found in willow bark that had been used as a natural pain reliever, the big side effect was, is that it also caused significant stomach irritation. Some chemists messed around with varients of the compound and long story short, that's where we get aspirin from.

Think about all the human modifications done to crops, native americans were the original genetic engineers (see: corn). I'm not a corporate apologist by any means, and there are some nasty things that get added to foods. But the debate between "natural" and "synthetic" is asinine, and anyone that assumes that you have to blindley follow one side needs to do some more research.

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 06:09 PM
Are you serious guy? What benefits does real food have over something created and marketed by humans? This guy is joking right? There has been studies that show taking protein powders can hurt your liver if your not drinking excesses water to push it through. What makes you think you need more than 100 grams of protein daily to begin with? In addition you know protein is fat soluble right? That means our body harvests it until we use it anyways. Drinking a protein shake before bed has no beneficial effects that not drinking it would have.. Your body has that protein stored anyways. This guys killing me man. In addition to your whole theory about enhanced vegetables and produce. It's been proven that organic fruits and vegetables provide a more abundant source of rich vitamins and they pass through your body easier. What background do you even have in nutrition other than a forum and google.com bro?

Since when is real food better for you? -walks out laughing

And as a personal reference I use to take whey supplementation, but there is so much more hearty healthy stuff for you in a stew of collard greens, kidney beans, ham chunks and onions than in any shake and its the same amount of protein...

Off Road
09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
Good luck with your low protein bodybuilding :thumbup:

Sean S
09-01-2009, 07:12 PM
Are you serious guy? What benefits does real food have over something created and marketed by humans? This guy is joking right? There has been studies that show taking protein powders can hurt your liver if your not drinking excesses water to push it through. What makes you think you need more than 100 grams of protein daily to begin with? In addition you know protein is fat soluble right? That means our body harvests it until we use it anyways. Drinking a protein shake before bed has no beneficial effects that not drinking it would have.. Your body has that protein stored anyways. This guys killing me man. In addition to your whole theory about enhanced vegetables and produce. It's been proven that organic fruits and vegetables provide a more abundant source of rich vitamins and they pass through your body easier. What background do you even have in nutrition other than a forum and google.com bro?

Since when is real food better for you? -walks out laughing

And as a personal reference I use to take whey supplementation, but there is so much more hearty healthy stuff for you in a stew of collard greens, kidney beans, ham chunks and onions than in any shake and its the same amount of protein...

First off, you'll get no argument from me that in general whole foods are best. You do make some other interesting assertions though.
1) Protein powders causing liver damage without enough fluid. I've never come across anything like this before. The only time protein is a problem for the liver is when there is already existing liver disease.
2) No one needs more than 100g of protein per day. There's credible research that shows strength athletes may need 1.5-2.0 g/kg, which is more than 100g in most people. Some of the mega-doses touted by some may be overkill, but 100g is too little for most athletes.
3) Proteins being fat-soluble. Are you implying that amino acids are stored in your fat stores for use later? Again, I've never come across this idea before. There is a small pool of circulating amino acids and intracellular amino acids used to construct new proteins, but this amount is relatively small. Also remember that ingestion of protein can trigger protein synthesis, which is why multiple protein feedings may be beneficial.

I'm not trying to insult you here, but you make some unusual claims. I have read a good deal of the research in this and haven't come across some of the things you mention. Could you please point me in the direction of some of the research where you got these conclusions? I am genuinely interested.

BFGUITAR
09-01-2009, 07:23 PM
Are you serious guy? What benefits does real food have over something created and marketed by humans? This guy is joking right? There has been studies that show taking protein powders can hurt your liver if your not drinking excesses water to push it through. What makes you think you need more than 100 grams of protein daily to begin with? In addition you know protein is fat soluble right? That means our body harvests it until we use it anyways. Drinking a protein shake before bed has no beneficial effects that not drinking it would have.. Your body has that protein stored anyways. This guys killing me man. In addition to your whole theory about enhanced vegetables and produce. It's been proven that organic fruits and vegetables provide a more abundant source of rich vitamins and they pass through your body easier. What background do you even have in nutrition other than a forum and google.com bro?

Since when is real food better for you? -walks out laughing

And as a personal reference I use to take whey supplementation, but there is so much more hearty healthy stuff for you in a stew of collard greens, kidney beans, ham chunks and onions than in any shake and its the same amount of protein...

LOL protein is fat soluble.

This has to be the most ignorant post on biochemistry I have ever seen. There are many different kinds of proteins each with specific purposes and suitabilities. I don't even know where to begin.

The only stored protein we have in our bodies is our muscle and organs. We don't have "stores" of protein like for fat or carbohydrates.

Humans didn't "make" the protein in protein powder. The proper term you were looking for is synthesized. No, humans did not synthesize the protein in protein powder. Protein powder is simply the extraction and purification of protein from a source (dairy or eggs or soy...) with added food colouring and flavouring and possibly other micronutrients. That is all protein powder is.

You need to do some reading. While I do admit that massive amounts of protein consumption really isn't necessary a lot of your points aren't very thought out.

New2IRON
09-01-2009, 08:15 PM
^^ Sorry for the previous post, retract that. I did not mean fat soluble. I meant to say that protein as whole, only so much can be consumed and the rest is WASTE for a day anyways. And Sean S I was stating that for most lifters 100g of protein is enough. I know the RDA for body builders is 1.8 grams for half your body weight. I was just saying in general 100g of protein is good enough unless you weigh like 250+ and are a rock. Now as far as protein being bad for your liver if , I was to brief. MOST companies who market protein abuse DHEA Androstendedione and Dehydroepindrosterone. In 2002 a survey found that about 1 in every 40 high school students use these "protein powders" and recent studies have shown they increase the risk of heart disease & liver functions in men 35- 65 years of age because of they way its stored in the human body and is not being pushed through by enough water consumption. Page 514 in my text book. "nutrition, an applied approach - second edition, published in 2007"


Sorry for the confusion...Just got off work and was writing my rebuttal lol

Mercuryblade
09-01-2009, 10:43 PM
Are you serious guy? What benefits does real food have over something created and marketed by humans? This guy is joking right? There has been studies that show taking protein powders can hurt your liver if your not drinking excesses water to push it through. What makes you think you need more than 100 grams of protein daily to begin with? In addition you know protein is fat soluble right? That means our body harvests it until we use it anyways. Drinking a protein shake before bed has no beneficial effects that not drinking it would have.. Your body has that protein stored anyways. This guys killing me man. In addition to your whole theory about enhanced vegetables and produce. It's been proven that organic fruits and vegetables provide a more abundant source of rich vitamins and they pass through your body easier. What background do you even have in nutrition other than a forum and google.com bro?

Since when is real food better for you? -walks out laughing

And as a personal reference I use to take whey supplementation, but there is so much more hearty healthy stuff for you in a stew of collard greens, kidney beans, ham chunks and onions than in any shake and its the same amount of protein...

Okay. Read what I posted, again. You don't understand what I wrote.

I was responding to your earlier assertion that anything natural > anything synthetic, and that said rule applies 100% of the time. I countered your claim with an example in which a synthetic product is superior to the natural one. In no instance did I ever claim that subsisting entirely on alleged "synthetic" products is a good idea.
I don't know where you are getting this idea of proteins being "pushed" through the body with water.
As for organic foods, there is absolutely no clinical evidence to suggest they are better for you that regular foods. http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/15303

My background in nutrition is a B.S. in biochemistry. My professor in my graduate level biochem class was really into agriculture and beef production, so he liked to relate alot of the topics we were going over in class to nutrition. I also work full-time at a cardiology research center, and am in the process of applying to medical school, I just took my MCAT 2 weeks ago, and have spent several hundred hours studying over the past few months to prepare for it.

TKisner
09-02-2009, 10:43 AM
^^ Sorry for the previous post, retract that. I did not mean fat soluble. I meant to say that protein as whole, only so much can be consumed and the rest is WASTE for a day anyways. And Sean S I was stating that for most lifters 100g of protein is enough. I know the RDA for body builders is 1.8 grams for half your body weight. I was just saying in general 100g of protein is good enough unless you weigh like 250+ and are a rock. Now as far as protein being bad for your liver if , I was to brief. MOST companies who market protein abuse DHEA Androstendedione and Dehydroepindrosterone. In 2002 a survey found that about 1 in every 40 high school students use these "protein powders" and recent studies have shown they increase the risk of heart disease & liver functions in men 35- 65 years of age because of they way its stored in the human body and is not being pushed through by enough water consumption. Page 514 in my text book. "nutrition, an applied approach - second edition, published in 2007"
Sorry for the confusion...Just got off work and was writing my rebuttal lol
It's in a textbook guys its gotta be right!

Unreal
09-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Define "WASTE"? Your body doesn't waste anything. You say you can only consume so much then it goes to waste. You better explain that because it is completely wrong.

Holto
09-02-2009, 11:18 AM
*prays that New2IRON is a troll*

I've said it before, I'll say it again; it's the trainers and RD's of the world that perpetuate 99% of the stupidity and misinformation surrounding fitness and nutrition.

Jilla82
09-25-2009, 01:29 AM
^^ Sorry for the previous post, retract that. I did not mean fat soluble. I meant to say that protein as whole, only so much can be consumed and the rest is WASTE for a day anyways. And Sean S I was stating that for most lifters 100g of protein is enough. I know the RDA for body builders is 1.8 grams for half your body weight. I was just saying in general 100g of protein is good enough unless you weigh like 250+ and are a rock. Now as far as protein being bad for your liver if , I was to brief. MOST companies who market protein abuse DHEA Androstendedione and Dehydroepindrosterone. In 2002 a survey found that about 1 in every 40 high school students use these "protein powders" and recent studies have shown they increase the risk of heart disease & liver functions in men 35- 65 years of age because of they way its stored in the human body and is not being pushed through by enough water consumption. Page 514 in my text book. "nutrition, an applied approach - second edition, published in 2007"


Sorry for the confusion...Just got off work and was writing my rebuttal lol
my microbio teacher said something like this today. I normally would just brush off what a teacher says, but this guy knows his stuff, and whenver the subject of nutrition has come up he's pretty much said what ive read on here.
But he's against powders. Says the body doesnt digest the powders that well and could cause liver damage.

Is there any info that goes against this?

twm
09-25-2009, 04:18 AM
maybe you could ask him to cite his source because it personally affects you.

Sean S
09-25-2009, 08:44 AM
I must be missing something on this whole protein powders and liver damage thing. I have a degree in nutrition and I've studied these sorts of things for years and I've never come across anything that says that protein powders cause liver damage. There's no physiological reason I can come up with why protein powders wouldn't be digested. They are simply dehydrated milk proteins that are reconstituted when you blend them in liquid. If you have lactose intolerance I can see digestive problems, but that's about it. Even if the powder is "undigested" I fail to see how it would cause liver damage. If it were undigested then it wouldn't be absorbed and would pass out of the body via the GI tract. Without absorption nothing in the powder would ever reach portal circulation to affect the liver in any way at all. Thus, this whole undigested protein powder = liver damage doesn't make any physiological sense whatsoever.
If they are arguing that contaminants in the protein powder are causing liver problems, that is a whole different argument. Any product that is ingested and is contaminated could cause that problem, so it's not a protein powder issue.

cj95
09-25-2009, 09:02 AM
I don't believe supps are required, but they are also not the devil.

No because. Foosball is the devil!!!


But anyways you should be eating meat man.

VikingWarlord
09-25-2009, 09:52 AM
my microbio teacher said something like this today. I normally would just brush off what a teacher says, but this guy knows his stuff, and whenver the subject of nutrition has come up he's pretty much said what ive read on here.
But he's against powders. Says the body doesnt digest the powders that well and could cause liver damage.

Is there any info that goes against this?

What the hell?

Tell him you've tried to verify the claim and would like to see where he got his information.

Justin R
09-25-2009, 10:52 AM
Protein is protein. Biochemistry is science. As long as you are getting all of the required amino acids, how you get them is irrelevant. Yes some supplements have less than healthy additives, so does some meat, veggies, etc. I don't know how this can require so much debate.

And just to rant a bit, I have heard more idiotic statements from dietitians and nutritionists than I have from many self educated bodybuilders/powerlifters/athletes. The same goes for exercise science majors. I have had one tell me heavy compound lifts are worthless and only cause injury, and one who told me doing lots of steady state cardio(1hr a day) is anabolic and will help you get stronger lifts. :tuttut: