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BigTallOx
09-01-2009, 10:10 AM
I train with a guy who's deadlift kind of boggles logic ( at least my logic ). With 495 hes really strong off the floor but the bar gets maybe 3" or 4" inches above his knees and he just stops, it looks like all he'd have to do is push his hips forward and he'd be locked out, but for some reason he just cant lock it out. The weird thing is that when he does rack pulls from below the knee he can lock out 600 pounds. It makes no sense to me ( but I'm clearly not a deadlifting expert either ). Does anybody know what's going on? ( I would have taken some video but I was having camera technical difficulties last night.)

Polish Hammer
09-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Sounds like he's giving everything he has to get it off the floor.Maybe he's got nothing left to lock it out.Could be he's actually weak at the bottom..if that makes sense.

barbell01
09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
when you pull from a rack you can keep your back in a locked out position and just use your legs to lift the bar. im guessing when he picks it up off the floor his back starts to round and his legs are already done with their part so he's stopping at the top with a rounded back and can't lockout. weak lower back maybe.......

BigTallOx
09-01-2009, 10:32 AM
when he picks it up off the floor his back starts to round and his legs are already done with their part so he's stopping at the top with a rounded back and can't lockout.

Hmm, that is kind of how he looks at the top, his back is rounded with hips back and he just cant get his hips through. ( I wish I had videos ).

So could it be a flexibility issue? That is, if he was more flexible he could pull from the floor with his back in the same position that he rack pulls.

BigTallOx
09-01-2009, 10:36 AM
Sounds like he's giving everything he has to get it off the floor.Maybe he's got nothing left to lock it out.Could be he's actually weak at the bottom..if that makes sense.

I guess that could be what's going on. I wish I had videos. He doesn't look like he's giving it everything off the floor, though. It just looks like it's easy for him off the floor and it just hits a wall, but for some reason the wall isn't there when he rack pulls. He said that even if he raises the bar an inch off the floor he doesn't have the lockout problem.

Polish Hammer
09-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Try telling him to "take the slack" out of the bar at liftoff.Meaning to already have the bar tight in his arms and to his body before he starts to stand.Alot of guys heave or jerk it as they start to lift.Maybe it will help.Who knows?

MarcusWild
09-01-2009, 10:44 AM
That's weak lower back. That's why his hips are so far back behind him. He's basically all leg drive off the floor but in doing that he puts himself in a position where he can't lock it out.

Getting your hips through is often misunderstood. You're not going to get your glutes strong enough to offset the few to several hundred pounds in front of you. The key to that is learning to pull back with your shoulders. That's what lets the hips slide through.

Also, a lot of deadlift lockout problems are from poor starting position.

BigTallOx
09-01-2009, 11:10 AM
That's weak lower back. That's why his hips are so far back behind him. He's basically all leg drive off the floor but in doing that he puts himself in a position where he can't lock it out.

Getting your hips through is often misunderstood. You're not going to get your glutes strong enough to offset the few to several hundred pounds in front of you. The key to that is learning to pull back with your shoulders. That's what lets the hips slide through.

Also, a lot of deadlift lockout problems are from poor starting position.

Are there any specific accessory exercises he should be doing to correct this?

Lones Green
09-01-2009, 11:49 AM
Are there any specific accessory exercises he should be doing to correct this?

Lower back work, goodmornings are good...I have the same problem

Sean S
09-01-2009, 11:54 AM
That's weak lower back. That's why his hips are so far back behind him. He's basically all leg drive off the floor but in doing that he puts himself in a position where he can't lock it out.

Getting your hips through is often misunderstood. You're not going to get your glutes strong enough to offset the few to several hundred pounds in front of you. The key to that is learning to pull back with your shoulders. That's what lets the hips slide through.

Also, a lot of deadlift lockout problems are from poor starting position.

This is actually what I see most of the time with someone who struggles at lockout. It's really tough to get your shoulders back with your back rounded over like that. Very few people can pull that off.
He needs to do some specific lower back assistance work. He also has to make a conscious effort not to get rounded over during the DL. If he works up in weight and starts to round significantly he needs to stop and lower the weight. Continuing to work up and fail the same way with similar weights will only reinforce bad habits in this case.

BFGUITAR
09-01-2009, 12:21 PM
I have a similar problem. I am VERY fast off the floor but the bar halts above my knees. There are two reasons I feel

1) Weak top end
2) Bad form

My legs straighten at the wrong point. This messes me up completely. When I am tired my form suffers (like at the most recent meet I was BEAT by my third deadlift). One of the guys I workout with told me to keep pushing with my legs the entire time and not to stop. He also said to think about accelerating through the lift and not to stop giving it my all when the bar leaves the floor.

MarcusWild
09-01-2009, 12:34 PM
I think narrow stance GMs are good. Go down until the upper back starts to round. I do back extensions with the SSB and bands. SLDL are good. Deficit deads are good for lockout, since they put you in such a bad starting position it's difficult to lockout.

I think with lower back stuff it's best to start out light and in the 15-20 rep range. If you go straight to really heavy stuff it'll often lead to over training the lower back. Lower the rep range and increase the weight as the lifter gets better at it. You want to correct a weakness not kill your lower back so badly it ruins the rest of your training.

themavinator
09-01-2009, 03:09 PM
yes the shoulders should be rounded while maintaining the lower back arch. He may be starting in to low of a hip position. Also he should be pulling backward, if you don't pull backward there is no way to offset that weight an pull your hips through unless you weigh 495. Those things have helped me.