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View Full Version : Thinkin about starting Shieko



pmm10990
11-20-2009, 11:53 PM
I was wondering if keeping the chest flys in will do me anygood. I know they make the man boobs look nicer, but i heard they have no effect on strength. Would you guys keep em in or put something else in?

Also in the program it has Deadlift to knees, how would i go about that? ir should i just do a full deadlift?

Andre518
11-21-2009, 12:15 AM
I would not do the chest flys they do more damage to your shoulder than they do helping your chest. I did a shieko program for my bench and with all the benching I did plus other lifts in the program I do not see the need for flys. As far as the DL to knees its just that pull the bar only to your knees then back to the floor the repeat. It helps built the start of the lift and help with explosiveness off the ground these will work a lot different than if you just did regular DL. As you progress through this or other shieko programs you may lift for the knees up using a power rack to help the top end of the lift or you may stand on a few plates and do full DL they all have purpose and will help you DL. Shieko programs are very though but the end results IMO are great. Good luck!

pmm10990
11-21-2009, 12:53 AM
ok, now should i just completely cut out the flys or put another exersise in, like a tricep one, cuz i did not see many of those, or aybe shoulder work? idk

brdclck
11-22-2009, 10:11 PM
My advice would be to start it without any modifications, at least for three or four weeks.
At first, I was really apprehensive about doing flyes. However, after accumulating a lot of fatigue from benching thrice a week, they soon became a welcome (and important, IMO) stretch. After a few months of running Sheiko, I no longer do them three times a week, but twice seems to really do the trick. Sometimes I do incline DB presses instead, emphasizing a big stretch at the bottom. Seems like essentially the same thing to me.

I also felt uncomfortable doing deadlifts-to-knees. The whole point of them is that you're pulling up to just above the knees, then doing rack pulls from just below the knees, thereby overlapping what is a sticking point for many people, without overloading your CNS. I would NOT recommend switching them for full deadlifts. That would require a modification of the volume and loading as well. Also of note, I switched to sumo/semi-sumo midway through a cycle. Deadlifts-to-knees seem to make a lot more sense for sumo deadlifts, rather than conventional. I always felt like a hunchback doing them conventional, but I appreciate them more with sumo due to the technical nature of the lift and getting the bar off the ground.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not trying to discredit Andre518's views. It really attests to how individual the matter is, and how much one can modify a Sheiko template. I do, however, think it would behoove you to at least start it out as written.

NickAus
11-23-2009, 12:29 AM
I think there are better ways to train than Sheiko, just my opinion.

Look at the systems that have built scores of excellent lifters.

tomv
11-23-2009, 01:16 AM
Sheiko has helped to build a lot of excellent lifters Nick, it's quite a popular routine in the IPF so OP may vary his choice depening on which particular fed he chooses to lift in.

OP - Fly's are in Sheiko to act more as a restorative exercise then anything else. They are used to stretch the pecs and should be done light.

NickAus
11-23-2009, 01:47 AM
Ok fair enough, I just hate how they don't do much upperback-that is stupid.

tomv
11-23-2009, 02:19 AM
I guess you can modify it slightly and throw a few sets of upperback in there? Every routine has it's deficiencies I guess.

pmm10990
11-23-2009, 09:44 AM
yea there is ver little upper back and that is a weak point of mine.

i was planning on doing it with a slight calorie deficit so lean don a little, i thought the volume might help, but i could be wrong.

and i will keep the flys in then, ive just heard that they r bad for ur shoulders.

so how would i fit the back work in? or should i just look for a different program?

brdclck
11-23-2009, 10:50 AM
If you are just starting, your back won't suddenly get weak from no direct work for a few weeks, especially with high volume deadlifting. But you can either add a few sets to any given day or add in an extra day of 'GPP'.

I wouldn't call it a 'deficiency' of the routine, as I think it's assumed that it will be added in at some point.

Also, I've done it on a calorie deficit, and yes, the volume makes it difficult not to lose weight.

Athos
11-23-2009, 12:15 PM
brdclck has made excellent points, I agree with his take on deadlifts to the knees as I've read that is what Sheiko was trying to do. However, you are not alone in questioning it, a lot of very experienced Sheiko guys that I know don't like DL's to the knees either. I do them because full DL's and rack pulls tend to be a bit much for me. As for flys, they are intended to help increase work capacity - they are supplemental work for the chest that doesn't tax the nervous system. Personally I always do them. As for upper back, Eric Talmant probably knows as much about Sheiko as anyone in the US, he said this is the number one question he gets, he points out that with all of the deadlifting you do, your upper back gets hit well. However, I personally do throw in some upper back work at least once a week, either on the main deadlift day or on my 4th day if I am working the CMS/MS four-day template. I can't say I notice much different either way, but the extra work doesn't affect me negatively. I've been doing Sheiko for about a year and it has done very well for me. I would recommend starting out with a rated lifter program, such as running #29,37,32. If you want to start out even more conservative, Dave Bates has some beginning Sheiko programs that are very good. Even with that, the volume can be tough at first and you will have to really pay attention to recovery. The first four weeks I did Sheiko were painful, but I have since adapted to the volume and have been very happy with the program.

pmm10990
11-23-2009, 02:27 PM
ok cool
well im not really a beginer, i lifted consistently throught highschool(football and track) coach just didnt do much back work.

so imma give 29 a whirl and see how it goes, i might like it, but that volume is like cardio lol

Athos
11-23-2009, 04:06 PM
I wasn't a beginner either, had been lifting for a long time, but the volume increase was pretty brutal at first. #29 is a prep cycle, most guys usually run it along with 37 and then finish up with 32, which is a comp cycle. I had good results from it. I can point you to some good Sheiko resources - PM me if you are interested in any.

pmm10990
11-23-2009, 04:20 PM
yea i know that volume will be brutal. its gonna suck but its gonna be fun hahaha