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Morgan McPherson
11-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Hey guys, I really upped my WSBB reading to gain a better grasp of the programing. One thing I see is that rep ranges in the assistance exercises vary depending on who has written the article. Some people feel it is better to do heavy triceps (3-8 reps) on DE day, others think it is better to do them on ME day. I understand that there are no strict rules. But I would like to know what has worked best for you. I can see pros and cons to each method. If you do heavy ham work on ME squat day, then you really allow yourself the time to recover. If you do heavy ham work on DE squat day, then you are forcing your body to be in a state of constant recovery all week. But, you also allow your body to not get so thrashed on ME day. Here is how my programing is looking:

ME bench
triceps (light or heavy?)
upper back (light or heavy)
shoulders (light or heavy

ME squat
hamstring (light or heavy?)
lower back (light or heavy?)
abs

Obviously, however you answer these questions will determine how DE day will look, it will be the opposite. I look at heavy as being 3-8 reps with 2-3 minute rest, and light as 8-15 reps with 1 minute rest or so. Thanks for your help in advance.

Lones Green
11-21-2009, 12:24 PM
I like to keep my heavy stuff on my max effort day, and the light stuff/more volume on my dynamic days.

douglasoh5
11-21-2009, 01:41 PM
all your assistance **** should be for building muscle...body building stuff...i would say nothing lower than 8 reps up to 20 reps

Sean S
11-21-2009, 04:32 PM
For the most part, the only "heavy" assistance work I would do would be heavy board work or lockout work for the BP. I always preferred to do this on my ME day to keep all the heavy stuff on one day. I always felt like my "heavy" low back or hamstring work was my ME movement. Everything else was a little lighter for higher reps.
If you use some of this heavy assistance work I would do it on my ME days. That way you only have two heavy days per week. If you put it on DE day, you end up going "heavy" on something 3 or 4 days a week. I've always done much better consolidating my heavy work to one day each for the BP and SQ/DL.

robchris
11-21-2009, 05:08 PM
I like to keep my heavy stuff on my max effort day, and the light stuff/more volume on my dynamic days.

Agreed 100%... You gotta recover between heavy ME work or your strength will regress. Assistance work is just that... Dont let it detract your main lifts (ie SQT, BP,DL.)

NickAus
11-21-2009, 05:26 PM
Good thread.

I have found for bench work I do best (at this point) by hitting my triceps pretty heavy for singles or doubles off boards before putting on the shirt.
Then once all my shirt work is done I'm pretty tired so to try and do more heavy triceps would not work, I prefer to do a floor press variation for sets of 10.

I should add I'm bench only so my lower body training is not as taxing as a full meet lifter.

On speed day I like to do sets of 5-6 for triceps lockouts but I never go till failure on this day ever.

muscle_g
11-22-2009, 07:04 AM
all your assistance **** should be for building muscle...body building stuff...i would say nothing lower than 8 reps up to 20 reps

Take this guys advice, he knows his ****!!

I took Douglas's advice and started doing anywhere from 8-20 reps with assistance like Douglas said and I have been getting very good results with my lifts.

Lones Green
11-22-2009, 08:19 AM
all your assistance **** should be for building muscle...body building stuff...i would say nothing lower than 8 reps up to 20 reps

Fair enough, but I like to do heavy sets of close grip floor press for sets for 8-15, and sometimes even sets of 5. They've helped my lockout strength tremendously. I'd call that an assistance movement.

Same thing on my squat day, after I squat, maybe I'll do rack pulls against bands for triples or something.

mikesbench
11-22-2009, 03:14 PM
I think to some degree this will depend on whatexercises yuneed to use to target your weaknesses. In general though I'd say more volume on DE day and if necessary heavier stuff on ME day. A good example would be if you feel you need to hit some sets of deep raw squats to work glutes / quads, etc following your ME exercise.

MarcusWild
11-22-2009, 03:27 PM
I do a second barbell movement for sets of 3-5. I think this is really important for non pro-level lifters to get in that work. It'll help build strength. After that, everything is in the 8-12 rep range.

douglasoh5
11-22-2009, 05:14 PM
Fair enough, but I like to do heavy sets of close grip floor press for sets for 8-15, and sometimes even sets of 5. They've helped my lockout strength tremendously. I'd call that an assistance movement.

Same thing on my squat day, after I squat, maybe I'll do rack pulls against bands for triples or something.

lones....it is an assistance exersice cause it is 8+ reps like i said......and I wouldnt call pulling after squating an assistance exersice.....alot of people pull the same day, as do I.

Travis Bell
11-22-2009, 06:13 PM
I do a second barbell movement for sets of 3-5. I think this is really important for non pro-level lifters to get in that work. It'll help build strength. After that, everything is in the 8-12 rep range.

Completely agree. This is something that is missed upon people who are in need of building up a very strong base. It's also key to making the Westside method work well. You hit your ME stuff or DE stuff and then get back under the bar for some more work.

Even now, after ME benching, we hit floor presses with quaded minis or chains for heavy sets of 6

Other times we will do some 3brd presses for sets of 4 or 5

Really helps keep the progress going. The rest of the other stuff is higher rep, just heavier on ME day and lighter on DE day.

TravisMash
11-22-2009, 09:06 PM
The whole recovery thing is person to person anyway. Olympic weightlifters have some of the strongest hamstrings in the world, and they work hamstrings 5-10 times per week sometimes. It's all about one's work capacity! With that being said most of the assisstance work should be used for hypertrophy and strength reps 5-10 no need to go to 3's unless it is one of your max effort exercises. I agree that lockouts are the most functional of exercises for increasing the bench. Extensions are simply for hypertrophy not much for strength.

NickAus
11-23-2009, 12:14 AM
Had a look at the poll, there is no way I would train upperback heavier on max bench day NO WAY.
Once all the heavy pressing is done I can't see how you could train your back heavy and I think your kidding yourself.

Heavy back on speed bench day for me.

AdamBAG
11-23-2009, 10:06 AM
What has worked best for me is the following:

Max Effort Bench
Main: Week 1- raw full range, Week 2 - raw partial range (boards etc.), Week 3 - shirt work
Supplemental: 8-15 x 3-5 sets - DB press, floor press, overhead work (on shirt week I drop this usually)(first to get dropped if feeling beat up)
Light Tricep: 8-15 x 3-5 - sets rolling db ext, pushdowns etc.
Lats: 8-15 x 3-5 sets - rows of some type
Rear/Side Delts: 8-15 x 3-5 sets - face pulls, rear delt machine etc.

Dynamic Effort
Main: Week 1 - 50% for 9 x 3 speed + Contrast, Week 2 - 50% 3 x 3 55% 3 x 3 60% 3 x 3 + Contrast, Week 3 - straight weight to 3-10 rep max
- for contrast use bands 2 weeks, then 1 week for reps, then 2 weeks chains, then one week reps etc.
Heavy Tricep/Lockout: leave the contrast used for speed on the bar and to 3-5 sets of 5 reps with various grips
Lats: Pulldowns or Pullups etc.
Rear Delt: same as max effort but different exercises

Morgan McPherson
11-24-2009, 10:46 PM
Thanks so much for all the input, and also to those who voted. I have decided to go with heavy assistance work on ME day. I will keep you posted on how that goes. There were not a lot of answers on the heavy upper back question. I guess what I have seen is that the back takes a pounding. It is working when you are deadlifting and when you are benching. So I will be looking to not go under 5 reps on upper back exercises. And keep all of my shoulder work high reps.